an early rendering is one thing , this is totally different .
It's like someone sending you their high school picture from 15 years ago then you see them in person and you're like WTF !? LOL ... yeah I've put on a few pounds lol
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Even Ilitch's biggest booster on this board is only hoping for another rendition of a proposed design. How about when will the construction start on that housing? Or is that to high of a expectation? One only has to look at the mess of the Fine Arts Building across the park from the David Whitney and Broderick Tower to understand our frustration Steve.
Where is Mitt Romney when we need him [["Want to bet ten thousand dollars?").
Our last word was that the Ilitches were in negotiations with the church for the land.
The land is critical for the building[[s). [[Plural).
My guess is that another parking garage will go up first after the Tigers' season is over.
Then the residential units can be built after the garage is finished.
I find it comical that you are so willing to ignore their past and are so insistent that this time is different than all the others. To date, they have worked on the stadium and rolled out some architectural plans. As of 6/23/2016, history is repeating itself but you're the only one that misses it.
Full disclosure: I still think you are on an Ilitch/Olympia payroll
Full disclosure:
I live in the Washington, D.C. area and not a hockey fan [[I haven't been a hockey fan in a few decades - the last team I rooted for was the Washington Capitals).
I haven't had any salary income in a few years [[I'm retired now. I'm a fmr. federal government employee).
I'll be glad to get together with Donald Trump. We both can show our tax returns for the last four years...
And, I know, the 'conspiracy' folks probably think I'm getting paid under [[on?) the table with Little Caesar's pizzas... and maybe a few ball park franks when I'm in Detroit and at a Tigers' game. :D
Yeah... that is too bad. And also too bad is that these same genius's couldn't figure out a way to just expand into the Detroit Life Building.... right behind the Fox, instead of making this building larger. But that would involve rehab.... something that the Ilitch's seem to have a very difficult time with. :[[
http://historicdetroit.org/galleries...ng-old-photos/
Again this piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTU6xAUB-lo
Fox Building = +/- 100,000 s.f.
Detroit Life = +/- 35,000 s.f.
New Building [[in one article) +/- 250,000 s.f.
Detroit Life is 1/2 short city block wide, and less than 50' deep at best. DL these days would be best as condos who don't mind rock and roll trucks in their back yard. Nowhere near big enough for Ilitch's needs.
But the argument that more floors doomed the fake-historic facade design.... absurd. My guess is that it was destroyed by the SmithGroup architects who likely hated the idea of Cranes old designs on their masterpiece. Architects [[and I've worked with many) have huge egos and strong opinions on design. They want to create new, not recycle old. They are the likely suspects for torpedo launching here. One could easily have stepped the upper floors back 20' with little loss of efficiency. Somebody wanted their triangle glitz.
So according to the articles, LC-HQs will start construction soon [[this summer), and be ready for occupancy by 2018. That translates to 2 years +/- for construction.
Meanwhile to the north, the Eddystone hotel is also due for renovation by Olympia. I thought it was supposed to open at the same time as the arena, but I haven't heard anything about that property recently. Is anything actually being done there? Or does the Eddystone just further solidify our skepticism?
http://www.apartments.com/detroit-li...it-mi/0009lp2/ http://www.apartments.com/blenheim-b...it-mi/pwn1l7t/ Looks like they have some plans for these 2.
Not too much but a few.
Mostly things like a cap, a book, etc.
Also have a few baseballs. Got Granderson and J.D. Martinez autographed balls but I got them like everyone else does. Went down by the field and asked.
Nothing at all unusual. Pretty typical fan. As I don't live in the Midwest it isn't like I can get autographed baseballs or go to Tiger Fests or whatever whenever I want...
As I stated previously, the historicist facade was eliminated by the owner, who originally requested it. Replicating historic details to their true integrity is very costly and I guarantee when said option was priced illitch balked. For a contemporary workplace...the faux facade isn't really authentic to the buildings nature. These among a myriad of others likely result in current state of the design.
The Fox Building/Theatre restoration of 1988 [[and since) has required a lot of repair/replacement of the ornate "Cambodian Gothic" terra cotta exterior skin, even since the initial restoration. One would think that the cost of any new terra cotta work [[same as replacement)... would be of little surprise to the Ilitch's, especially since the existing building will likely require repair/replacement on into the future.
On the otherhand, perhaps the total cost of a double bay of window surrounds in ornate terra cotta was more than they anticipated, since historic type of work is otherwise rather foreign to them.
I do know that terra cotta damage replacement for the Detroit Opera House Broadway facade came to about $2 million.
Progress made on Little Caesars Headquarters: None.Quote:
The new tower, slated to be completed by December 2016, will be smaller than the Fox Office Center building, which houses both the iconic Fox Theatre and 186,000 square feet of office space for Little Caesars and other Ilitch-affiliated ventures. The two buildings will be the same height, but the new tower will be just eight stories — versus 10 for the Fox — because it will have higher ceilings.
Attachment 31044
I believe someone posted that construction fencing is or will be placed on this site I believe this month.
I believe the context was that the city had approved the permit to begin the preliminary prep work.
I don't see the problem given that the Ilitch folks and city are moving things along.
The picture I posted is from today, no fencing. The parking lot is still very much being used as a famous deluxe Ilitch surface parking lot [[it's paved!).
That's good news! I'd like to see some of Ilitch's non-taxpayer funded promises come true. I want to be a believer, he just need to make me one.
Construction Trailers are set up NW corner of Park and Columbia. This job is going to happen.
If you're referring to the last time a billionaire announced the construction of a new headquarters for his company in downtown Detroit and then never built it, I think getting financing for new office building construction is a little bit easier to get now than in 2007. But I guess we'll see pretty soon.
Thanks.
Again, I think folks need to remember that this entire "District Detroit" development by the Ilitches is quite large and will maybe take until 2019 or 20 for most of the Ilitch portion to be completed.
If folks put everything into a reasonable context: Say 5 years from ground breaking for the arena [[by say 1/1/2020) I think we'll find that we'll have most of what we want will be completed including the arena, new LC headquarters, residences around the arena and Comerica, a new hotel, Ilitch school of business building, a few new parking structures, etc. etc. [[I consider this the 'primary development'. Other buildings say behind the Fox or West of Cass to be secondary development).
On Labor Day 2016, we'll have three large buildings [[arena, business school building and headquarters) going up on Woodward in a city not full of cranes...
Scaffolding is up on the Columbia street sidewalk along the fox. I also saw surveyors on site on Tuesday. Construction is imminent.
I walked by yesterday and the site looked business as usual, no signs of construction planned.
EMUSteve, what does Ilitch pay you to market for him?
1953
Work has begun on the new LC HQ. A new kiddie park was installed on the west side of Park last week as well...Attachment 31167
Good. They aren't making any moves on the Blenheim Bldg, right?
Thank you.
As someone once said [[I think :confused:) a picture is worth a dozen or thousand posts...
Wonder if someone could get a photo of the new parking garage going up [[right?) behind St. Johns Church? Thanks.
I was in Detroit in January but won't be back again until November... I'll check things out then but in the meantime I'm dependent on this site and the media for visual evidence.
Well it definitely won't be a thousand... because I can probably find a thousand posts in the DetroitYes archives that talk about some of the poor choices that the Ilitch's have made [["flawed brilliance" as the Detroit Free Press once labeled it).
Also... as much as I would like to see a pair of 6 story residences across the street from this new building.... I think that Grand Circus Park should be a bigger concern for them. What's more important... taking a pair of dilapidated buildings [[U/A & Fine Arts) and bringing them back to life? .... or taking probably their best landscaped parking lots [[many of theirs are gravel) and finally putting something on to them? I think the first option would be of greater value to downtown revitalization versus the apartments, although I'm sure that's not the way this will go.
I completely agree. While typically not a fan of surface lots, the ones along Woodward directly in front of CoPa don't bother me as much. I would much rather see a new residential structure go up on the surface lot just south of Elizabeth Street for the entire block length [[on the north half of the block that contains Chelis and the Central United Methodist church.) That, with the new LC HQ would actually frame those surface lots quite nicely in the interim.
Damn. I wish I had invested in a goalpost moving company, because business is clearly booming.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Isn't this thread about the LC headquarters building? To summarize the topic at hand: fencing is now up for the new LC headquarters building.
We seem to wander a bit in our discussions, don't we... Starting to feel like I have ADHD.
We have a thread for the arena site including adjacent buildings, this thread for the LC headquarters building [[and presumably other development near Comerica Park), and I assume other threads for other properties.
If folks want to discuss other Ilitch non-arena/non-Comerica properties why not start another thread [[if no suitable thread exists now) to discuss them and let us focus on the arena and new development in the threads created for them.
Woodward needs a streetwall. Surface parking is neither good looking contributing. No free passes for the Olympia holdings fronting Woodward. There will still be plenty of vistas of Comerica Park, and as one can see from Fenway or Wrigley, a sweeping vista across parking lots is not exactly a requirement of a dynamic stadia district.
Far be it me to play a communications specialist, but in forums and other non-real time communications [[such as email), folks always have trouble REALLY understanding what is being said and responded to.
I'm kind of confused now as to what we are really discussing.
I'm suggesting that the LC headquarters and the planned residential buildings across the street 'fit together' like peas in a pod as we are talking new construction on opposite sides of the street all part of the same development project.
I was told that after all the hassle it took to tear down the old hotel on the arena site, they never even attempted to ask the city about tearing it down. Also, not sure if anyone has seen the District Detroit experience at CoPa but the Detroit Life Building and the Blenheim buildings are in the planned district. I took pictures of the District Display but I just don't know where I saved them to right now.
I just drove by today. Ground has actually been broken now.
Ground has absolutely been broken. There is scaffolding up against woodward and all the asphalt has been dug up on the site, and there are multiple caterpillars on the site now as well. But in case anyone wanted confirmation:
http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...pjjr/89597280/
"Today, the firm has designed the Mike Ilitch School of Business for Wayne State University and the Little Caesars new headquarters building near the Fox Theatre that will break ground this week. The projects should inject a spirited shot of contemporary design into Detroit’s cityscape."
Seems like they will hold a ceremony of some kind this week, although ground has already been broken
Well I have to say that I like the carport roof on the WSU Business School a lot more than the carport roof on the Little Caesar's Building. But question... what function do these serve? :confused:
150 million for a 230,000 square foot building? That's over $600 sq. ft that can't be right.
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...oreUserAgent=1
Why the architectural firm that brought us the Penobscot, Guardian, and Buhl would bring us the rubbish that will go into the Little Caesars headquarters and WSU School of Business is beyond me. What a fall from grace.
1953
FYI the Guardian Building was built with 'no budget' for Union Trust. AKA architect was free to design the fcuk out of it. Union Trust went belly up 6 months after the building was completed. The only clients i am aware of who have no-budget buildings would be Apple or the King of Saudi Arabia. You may want to direct your smug comments toward the firms who work for them...
My smug question for them would be.... "what architectural professor from Hell told all architectural students to build carports on top of all new building designs?" :eek:
These 2 building designs have them... the new Ashton condo design has one, the first Kraemerdesigngroup Hudson's development design had them. WTH??
i did see ur comment above. i am not directly involved in this project so i cannot confirm, but i will share my opinion. i would speculate that the owner requested a top floor outdoor space. in an effort to maintain the street wall/building height of buildings adjacent and interpret the cornice, the designers introduced a cantilevered overhang. feel free to keep terming it a carport tho. the cantilevered overhang accomplishes the items listed above while also protecting outdoor occupants. i would also speculate there is an effort to introduce outdoor lighting and this overhang will 'glow' as it's likely illuminated from below. i cringe that you would mention kraemer design group and smithgroupjjr in the same category. i would also invite you to critique kraemer 'ground-up' construction [[ie. auburn & griswold) and then compare that to sgjjr's contemporary projects.
FYI they're #14 of Top 50 Firms per this publication:
http://www.architectmagazine.com/firms/smithgroupjjr
I don't mind the overhang, but it appears that there is a lot of dead space at the top of the structure that keeps throwing me off. Will it really be two stories of a blank facade leading to the cantilevered overhang?
SmithGroup is definitely a big corporate office, but [[without commenting on this specific building) they're the best firm in Detroit and if someone came to me and told me that they were building an office building and wanted to hire a firm HQed in Detroit [["HQed" because I think the group that does office projects is not located in the Detroit office) that's who I'd recommend. There's going to be a consistent minimum quality. I also think that it's really nice that they're an integrated architecture and engineering firm. It might not be something you can tell from just looking at a building but having in house engineers that the designers regularly work with and have access to is really beneficial.
For this building, and all other buildings, I get the sense that the Ilitches are very "involved" in the design process because it seems like certain elements seem to be common across all their projects regardless of architect.
As far as I'm concerned it's not what I would have done but no one is asking me.
Also about art deco, while having a big budget helps, you could build an excellent art deco building today with a normal highish end office building budget, and a pretty good art deco building with a lower budget. The architect would just need some discipline and creativity.
Actually, that's not totally true. Granted Wirt Roland of Smith/Hinchman & Grylls was given a large budget... but he decided to go the cheap route with a building skin made mostly of brick, a much cheaper alternative to stone. So he was able to take the savings on the cheaper 6 million "Guardian orange" bricks used for the exterior, and lavish the interior [[as well as the bottom and top of the exterior) with Rookwood and Pewabic tile and 14 varieties of marble detailing.
I don't think the lavish decor of the building is what drove the Union/Guardian Trust Corp. into bankrupcy as much as the bottoming out of the stock market and ensuing bank panic did.
Now the 7 Fisher brothers did tell Albert Kahn that "the sky's the limit" for building design on the Fisher Building... and Kahn had to talk them out of using gold fixures in the building bathrooms. ;)
The district Detroit posted this update on their twitter page
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyhgUcHWIAAOFkj.jpg
It looks a lot smaller footprint than what I thought it would be, but they certainly got the street-wall and height right. Perhaps the basement will be smaller than the footprint of the building.
Has anyone else noticed that window placement on the new Little Caesars HQ building has come to a grinding halt?
They've been stuck like this for what seems like at least a month, perhaps several.
Attachment 35753
Nice window treatment though. I guess they ran out of them at Home Depot [[laffs). I like that the glass looka like pizza wedges.
wow, rookie mistake by a 150-yr old architecture and engineering firm. lack of oversight by management or no collaboration with their engineers. the LC GRC has been FUBAR for some time. SG has designed and redesigned that building so many times. likely not even a profitable project anymore :confused:Quote:
The way the air handling units were designed they just so happen to be above Chris I's new office. They are so powerful they hum and vibrate and shake the whole 9th floor.
This is probably the reason we don’t see much sculptural glass on tallish buildings in the first place. The wind doesn’t like frilly glass. They may be able to grind it down and make Special Edition mugs out of them for their bar/pizza place later on...
This reminds me of the Aon Center and First Canadian Place rehash of their white marble cladding. The Chicago Aon Center and Toronto’s HQ of the Bank of Montreal had been designed with this white Carrara marble suggested by Edward Durrell Stone. Both buildings showed severe signs of wear due to the weather. Apparently, both cities experience some variations of extreme cold and heat. Duh. Big Chunks of marble fell to the streets endangering would-be Michaelangelos.
Both buildings were reclad: Aon Center \ 60 to 80 million$ in the early 90’s and 1st Canadian at a hundred million in 2010-11.
Update now that it is July 2018. No new pizza windows have been added in months, and from the outside at least, it appears no exterior progress has been made since winter either. What gives?
Also over at LCA, the uncompleted structures surrounding the Chevy Plaza are gearing up for season #2. I swear that as each day goes by, that area around the area is looking more and more like the failed Bloomfield Park.
What a symbolically Ilitch project.
Are you serious? The exterior work is nearly finished. They also added two more floors from the original concept along with a glass covered terrace so construction is still ongoing. The interior work is moving along quickly and should be finished on schedule.
That's just your opinion, but behind the scenes there's plenty of work being done. Cass Park was just recently cleaned up courtesy of Ilitch charities and renovations have been under way on the former Detroit Life Building from a month now.... http://www.districtdetroit.com/video...life-building/ Maybe walk around the area a bit and see for yourself, instead of believing the nonsense posted on message boards.
I am one of the illitches biggest fans. I have always cut them slack. I was so excited for the arena and surrounding projects. but ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
This is pathetic. their LC HQ has had work on it done if you go through their webcam. not sure what's taking them so long to finish the facade, but its still ongoing. the detroit life building is also being renovated to their credit. and at least the school of business is done.
having said all that. the two building they built shells for around their arena and have just left empty is embarassing. what they're trying to do to the cass/henry block is pathetic. their lack of development on the eddystone is AWFUL!!! that's what's making me the most mad at this point. they need to hurry up and get their stuff together. their good will with the residents of the city has ran out. put up or shut up. STOP LEVELING BUILDINGS FOR PARKING!!
they threw up a parking garage behind the eddystone in NO time. said "possible first floor retail".. and didn't put any in it. but they can't for the life of them at least begin installing windows in the eddystone?? pathetic!
I'd say he's very serious. From an outside perspective [[the only perspective I have), it's been months since any significant progress has been made. The pizza windows have come to a halt.
I walk by LCHQ around once a week and take a picture. I've compared pictures and there's been little to no progress, especially for the windows.
Some of the windows have seemed to be marked with painters tape to identify issues.
I'm not in love with what the Ilitch's have done to the city with their empire of gravel lots; they have a lot to prove. I hope that they prove me wrong.
I wonder if the recent trade and immigration developments have anything to do with the slow down in construction...
les, here's a picture I took on May 8th, 2018. I don't see anything different.
Attachment 36102
If casscorridor's earlier post regarding having to fix/replace the HVAC system on the top floor, due to vibration, etc. is correct, it seems they would want that done before installing the remaining windows. No excuses for lots of the other work but I can't believe they wouldn't want they're own hq completed asap.
If they had stuck with the original, more traditional design, they'd have an occupied and attractive building by now [[or a gravel lot, because the Ilitches seem to always end up with a gravel lot).
I'm not an Illitch loyalist by any means, but it's laughable to think that the Illitch organization is dragging their own feet on a construction project for their own headquarters.
I would accept the argument that the Illitches are dragging their feet to get any construction project *started*.
But once you start a construction project, every day wasted just makes the project more expensive. Not to mention that a halfway constructed building exposed to the elements adds an extra dimension of risk. A building under construction is like someone getting opened up for surgery. The number of negative outcomes and the amount of uncertainty gets huge while you're in the middle of a procedure. You stay open as long as you need to do get the job done, but then you close up and put in stitches as soon as you can.
I'm not arguing that you should have faith in the Illitch's goodwill. You can probably have have faith in the Illitch's desire to act in their own self-interest.
neo-historcism or the like is typically cost prohibitive as limestone, granite facades are high decorated and detailed. the only architect arguably doing them and doing them well today is Robert A.M. Stern, and those design are pretty stripped down. If I am Chris Illitch and I am building a global resource center as a showpiece for a corporation to attract and retain innovative + creative employees. a new historic facade covering an open amenity-filled office space would simply convey the wrong idea...
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2018/10/16/little-caesars-headquarters-detroit/1651522002/
DetroitYes is shouted out in this article. It also states that many of the pizza-shaped windows were cracking immediately after installation.
The engineers shouldn't have install pizza sliced glass windows in such a bendable shape. Think of the gusty upper level winds.
What they should have done is make the windows squared and flat and design the tinted pizza slices.
Somewhat confusing, though. After explaining what a mystery the halt in window installation has been, it is mentioned that a truckload of windows was seen outside of the building this morning with seemingly no follow up. Where did they go from there? Were they brought inside? Were they taken away? Do we really care, or do we care more about the removal of that stupid page trumpeting "Wildcat Corner" and "Cass Park Village" on District Detroit's website that everybody hated and made fun of anyway?
The top two floors have no glass installed and have been covered with sheeting for the past six months. On Tuesday morning, a truck holding stacks of glass shaped like pizza slices was parked in front of the building. A Sept. 25 press releasesaid it will open "early next year."https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2...unds&auto=webp
The cracking pizza glass is no surprise. During the August downtown theatre tours, one of the managers at the Fillmore Theatre next door mentioned the cracking as the reason behind the stopping of the installation of the pizza glass. It didn't stop building, just facade construction.
One other point of interest was that around the 5th floor of the building a circular 3 story open space was added to the internal building design [[this was visible early on from the upper floors of the Palms Building next door). Wonder if this 3 story rotunda space is a design element built for the upper level executive offices, similar to the glassed in atrium on floors 6-8 in the Fox Building above the theatre lobby.
Here we see the rooftop Fox atrium, but it appears the Little Caesars rotunda will not have a rooftop component....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fo...!4d-83.0526662
I must say, as bad as their Illitches are in terms of food, sports and urban planning/design, I'm impressed with this. The facade looks pretty good.