More truth about the Middle-East

While Israel is far from perfect, every flaw and sin, half-truth and outright lie are given as proof that Israel needs to change, but nobody talks about how bad the Arab/Muslim countries treat each other and their own people. Maybe because you are FREE to bash Israel, go to Israel and bash and so on, but in so many of the Arab/Muslim countries there are little to no freedoms to do so.

Israel's Never Looked So Good
By David Suissa, Huffington Post, February 2, 2011
They warned us. The geniuses at Peace Now warned us. The brilliant diplomats warned us. The think tanks warned us. Even the Arab dictators warned us. For decades now, they have been warning us that if you want "peace in the Middle East," just fix the Palestinian problem. A recent variation on this theme has been: Just get the Jews to stop building apartments in East Jerusalem and Efrat. Yes, if all those Jews in the West Bank and East Jerusalem would only "freeze" their construction, then, finally, Palestinian leaders might come to the table and peace might break out.
And what would happen if peace would break out between Jews and Palestinians? Would all those furious Arabs now demonstrating on streets across the Middle East feel any better?
What bloody nonsense.
Has there ever been a greater abuse of the English language in international diplomacy than calling the Israeli-Palestinian conflict the "Middle East peace process?" As if there were only two countries in the Middle East.
Even if you absolutely believe in the imperative of creating a Palestinian state, you can't tell me that the single-minded and global obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict at the expense of the enormous ills in the rest of the Middle East hasn't been idiotic, if not criminally negligent.
While tens of millions of Arabs have been suffering for decades from brutal oppression, while gays have been tortured and writers jailed and women humiliated and dissidents killed, the world—yes, the world—has obsessed with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
As if Palestinians—the same coddled victims on whom the world has spent billions and who have rejected one peace offer after another—were the only victims in the Middle East.
As if the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has anything to do with the 1,000-year-old bloody conflict between Sunni and Shiite Muslims, or the desire of brutal Arab dictators to stay in power, or the desire of Islamist radicals to bring back the Caliphate, or the economic despair of millions, or simply the absence of free speech or basic human rights throughout the Arab world.
While self-righteous Israel bashers have scrutinized every flaw in Israel's democracy—some waxing hysterical that the Jewish democratic experiment in the world's nastiest neighborhood had turned into an embarrassment—they kept their big mouths shut about the oppression of millions of Arabs throughout the Middle East.
They cried foul if Israeli Arabs—who have infinitely more rights and freedoms than any Arabs in the Middle East—had their rights compromised in any way. But if a poet were jailed in Jordan or a gay man were tortured in Egypt or a woman were stoned in Syria, all we heard was screaming silence.
Think of the ridiculous amount of media ink and diplomatic attention that has been poured onto the Israel-Palestinian conflict over the years, while much of the Arab world was suffering and smoldering, and tell me this is not criminal negligence. Do you ever recall seeing a UN resolution or an international conference in support of Middle Eastern Arabs not named Palestinians?
Of course, now that the Arab volcano has finally erupted, all those chronic Israel bashers have suddenly discovered a new cause: Freedom for the poor oppressed Arabs of the Middle East!
Imagine if, instead of putting Israel under their critical and hypocritical microscope, the world's Israel bashers had taken Israel's imperfect democratic experiment and said to the Arab world: Why don't you try to emulate the Jews?
Why don't you give equal rights to your women and gays, just like Israel does?
Why don't you give your people the same freedom of speech and freedom to vote that Israel does? And offer them the economic opportunities they would get in Israel? Why don't you treat your Jewish and Christian citizens the same way Israel treats its Arab and Christian citizens?
Why don't you study how Israel has struggled to balance religion with democracy—a very difficult but not insurmountable task?
Why don't you teach your people that Jews are not the sons of dogs but a noble, ancient people with a 3,000-year connection to the land of Israel?
Yes, imagine if Israel bashers had spent a fraction of their energy fighting the lies of Arab dictators and defending the rights of millions of oppressed Arabs. Imagine if President Obama had taken one percent of the time he has harped on Jewish settlements to defend the democratic rights of Egyptian Arabs—which he is suddenly doing now that the volcano has erupted.
Maybe it's just easier to beat up on a free and open society like Israel.
Well, now that the cesspool of human oppression in the Arab world has been opened for all to see, how bad is Israel's democracy looking? Don't you wish the Arab world had a modicum of Israel's civil society? Would you still be worrying about "stability in the Middle East?"
You can preach to me all you want about the great Jewish tradition of self-criticism—which I believe in—but right now, when I see poor Arab souls being murdered for the simple act of protesting on the street, I've never felt more proud of being a supporter of the Jewish state.

From "Israel Today" magazine

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/Portals...revolution.jpg

It seems 40+ years and a lifetime of diplomatic headaches have not been enough to teach the West its lesson when dealing with uprisings and democracy in the Middle East.
In 1979, Iranians rose up against the repressive but stable rule of the shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. America and Europe felt it was in the best interests of everyone involved to move the shah out of the way and throw open the doors to Western-style democracy. What they did was lay the groundwork for the Islamic Revolution and the rise to power of an even more repressive regime that now threatens the entire region.
And they are repeating the same mistake in Egypt.
When the demonstrations first began in Cairo on January 25, they were led by a large group of students with a list of specific demands. Having himself clearly learned the lesson of the shah’s overthrow, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak subsequently agreed to most of those demands, most importantly the demand that this be his last term in office and that he not establish a dictatorial dynasty with his son taking over next.
A Christian source in Cairo [[whose name is being withheld for his own safety) says the uprising should have died down then and there.
“As we followed the unfolding of events including the announced change in government and president Mubarak’s speech, we wondered why the international news media is focusing only on the thousands in Tahrir Square who are escalating their demands and refusing dialogue,” said the source.
According to this man, something changed in the uprising after the first few days, after Mubarak had already agreed to most of the reforms demanded by the original protestors.
“What is happening now has nothing to do with this original protest. What is happening right now is a conspiracy to topple Mubarak from outside the country,” he said. That change coincided with the more visible participation in the uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood, a radical Islamic group with ties to extremists across the region.
But this Christian source suggested the situation is far more grave, and more methodical than just a handful of Brotherhood provocateurs entering the crowds.
“Only a few people [[hundreds?) are still there from the original protesters,” he noted. “They have been slowly replaced by other highly organized groups that all carry the same model of cell phones and have the same blankets.”
There are even reports that these groups may not be Egyptians at all, with some eye witnesses saying they clearly do not speak Arabic with an Egyptian accent or in the local dialect.
“This is typical of the Muslim Brotherhood, and everybody on the streets of Cairo knows this. We heard people on the streets saying that the plot to take over the country is now clear,” revealed the source. “The escalation of violence…is because of this. Egyptians who love Egypt, the millions that took to the streets yesterday, want this to end.”
The West is afraid of the “Arab street” and is only being fed in that approach by the mainstream media. After all, violence and revolution make a much better story than compliance and smooth reform. In the meantime, average Egyptians like this Christian man and his family are ignored while the radical Islamists are given a global podium.
“Where are those, like myself, that want change and reform, but accept the changes that Mubarak is proposing, and want a peaceful transition through elections in September?” he wondered fruitlessly.
This man reported that over a million people had gathered last week in Cairo expressing acceptance of Mubarak’s proposed reforms and dialogue regarding the outstanding issues. And he said similar demonstrations had been held around the country. Over the weekend, the Mubarak government further complied with protestor demands when the old corrupt leaders of the president’s party all resigned.
“The cry of the people of Egypt is being totally ignored by the international news media,” he said, questioning, “Is this on purpose?”
If the Muslim Brotherhood does take over in Egypt [[and it would do so by installing a sympathetic puppet like Mohammed ElBaradei), Israel would find itself direct neighbors with a new Islamic Republic that would dwarf the threat of Hizballah rule in Lebanon.
Israeli officials are furious at the way the US and Europe are handling the situation.
“I think the Americans still don’t realize the extent of the catastrophe into which they have pushed the Middle East,” Labor Party leader and former Defense Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer told Army Radio.
Ben-Eliezer slammed the Obama White House’s inability to learn from the past:
“We learn from history. We remember what was said when Carter proposed that the Shah of Iran give up nicely and allow Khomeini to take his place. In Gaza, too, when the Americans came in, they supervised the democratic elections [via which Hamas came into power]. If there are elections in Egypt the way the Americans want, I will be surprised if the Muslim Brotherhood does not win. This will be a new Middle East - radical, Islamic and extremist.”
Likud lawmaker Ayoub Kara told visiting Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee that “it needs to be understood that if the Egyptian government will fall, the Muslim Brotherhood will take its place.” Kara said that Obama should also be learning from the mistakes in Iraq, where an American-style democracy has led to a “saturation of terror.”
A leading columnist for Israel’s largest daily newspaper, Yediot Ahronot, was even harsher, blasting Obama “selling Mubarak for a pot of lentils,” and “not understanding the Middle East.”
“Our conclusion in Israel needs to be that the man sitting in the White House is liable to ‘sell’ us over night,” concluded the columnist. “The thought that the US might not stand by our side in the day of need causes chills. God help us.”
Former Mossad chief Danny Yatom lamented that the Obama Administration had actually missed a golden opportunity. Yatom told Israel Radio that the situation was ripe for pressure on Mubarak to finally implement real reform, but the US should have worked with the Egyptian leader, not pushed him out of the way and opened the door to chaos. Now, said Yatom, Washington is going to get someone they can’t work with at all.

thank you for posting such abiased an untrue cut and paiste it gives us in the peace camps a little time to talk to the bigots of the world... should I respond yes.. and I will .. as you paiste this settlements continues unabated...the wall continues over farms and villiages... 20 year old shepard was shot for tending his sheep by a sniper leaving a wife and a child..his crime was tending his sheep near the wall.. as you print this BS; Christians in the middle-east continue to shrink from 18% to less than two percent of the population...in a recent article in the Washignton Report on Middle-East Affairs .. a Catholic [[ I know you dont believe they are Christian LB...but they are) reports that the main reason they [[Christians) are leaving is the conditions from the OCCUPATION...They feel that the Israel RIGHT [[not all Israelis by the way ..) want the sites for tourism devoid of the indegenious population of Chritsians..

As you print this: [[ hiding behind the vieled : haters label..a new tactic by the way to paint legitment criticism with labeling).. Yael Dayan [[ Moshe's Daughter) is speaking out bravely like so many other Israeli's on the policies of the country...Asking American Jews to stop the silience...talking about the prejudice against the Ethiopean Jews who are not allowed to worship equally [[in Synagogues). Bediouns who served in the IDF are having their homes bulldozed in and relocated in the Negev areas where there was heavy waiste from industry...that radical Rabbies are Harashing an 80 year old Jewsih Holocaust suvivior because he rents to Arabs..which some Rabbies want to stop.

I truly beleive in the righs of both people to exist in peace and harmony..but your lies and the bevy of apologist cut and paisters show a bigotry only equal to South Africian Aparthied. I have supported the peace camps in Israel and have been in contact with Israeli soldiers and the combantant for peace.. I have talked to ordinary Palestinians and Israelis that get it.. you dont.. and ,many here dont understand.. If you read HP which you must,. there is countless articles on the truth and every so often an apologist for the occupation writes one [[freedom of the press).. but you are blind to teh realities and in being blind you place Israel in postions of a constant state of war.. we know that Israel wants to continue to expand settlemenst and they use security as an excuse.. they continue to take land even as we speak.. including from a Sister's convent... Their right is entrenched just like our right here... Micheal Ben-Ari calls any Israeli a "germ" for speaking out against Israle [[his own people) ..

so when you cut and paiste this BS... you are hurting Israel...you guys havent figured that out yet.. we can keep sending billions to prompt this government up ..of we can demand [[yes we can)...that their Left and Centeral voices be heard.. this Government is not a partner in Peace and teh old canard about lack of partners has been proven wrong again... The TRUTH is coming.. and th esettlement expansion [[13,000 new home..natural growth BS) is going to show the world the only partner in the peace process is status qou..that has been the bait and switch operations of the Likkud for decades as well as their labor partners..

Rachel Marshal says it eloquantly: the Emperor [[AIPAC, lIkkudites etc) stroles down the streets with his new clothes... we all laugh at the nakedness...but the supportors dont get it... the Lobby is exposed for what it is.. naked and agressive. Arabs have offered peace for generations... all they want is continous lands and access to water..they want a vaible state not one surrounded as Gaza by a hostile army whose control is still present.. some are pragmatists... they want peace.others are too far gone..but when they see a viable peace and opportunity for economic gain they may come along or be jailed..their choice... stop falling for the 2000 plus bloggers hired by the Mossad or the IDF or AIPAC who ever fund these folks.. talk to JSTREET..talk to the Peace camps your author is so afraid of .. talk to soldiers in the IDF who have seen war crimes..talk to Palestinian Ghandi's that are jailed for a year for nonviolent protests...

we have seen the MSM images of Palestinians gone wild..and the THUGS of hamas.. but that is not all the faces of the conflct.

When you perpetuate the misinformation people die...on both sides.. how disengenous... I ask those like you little ...

as an Israeli do I want Zionist Christians who want to convert me and let me war against my neighbors for a second coming ...and look to the Jewish faith as waiting to be converted .. or do I want people who CARE ABOUT JEWISH FAITH AND IT'S PEOPLE HERE AND IN
ISRAEL TO BE CRITICAL BUT SUPPORTIVE.. to respect the JEWISH FAITH .and not change it but be critcial and protective of the people..but challege the policies of the government... like the building of the wall through farms and groves..500-1000 meters wide on 35% of ariable lands.

Remember Abu Hashish whose only crime was tending his sheep on Christmas Eve...thisnk about your tax dollars supporting this.. wouldnt it be better if they went to building projects for peaceful co-exhistence between the two.. demand ending the WAR aide to Israel..and demand that monies only go to joint projects for Peace.. or is that too much for you LB..

oh by the way.. the Muslim Brotherhood can be controlled by the new opposition in Egypt... no one knows what the outcome will be so stop spreading the WMD BS.. as a pretext for deflection of the reall issues in the middle-east..Dictators and Oppression,. you want to stop terrorism ..stop oppression

Interesting Arab take on what the real issues are:
http://arabnews.com/opinion/article253715.ece

Yes that is interesting Steve...yes Israel is not the sole reasons but the fact is that an oppessed people [[all in the region).. is not a thriving people.. However, I would challenge the deflection and not look at monies sent down a hole is monies not spent well..Arabs are a creative and bright people that have PhD sweeping streets in egypt, and other countries due to the ongoing misdirected spending..

But I would challenge the assumption that it a on edimensial issue and that if the region was not preoccupied in prompting up Dictators and Oppressibe governments it wouldnt be as bad.. as we see Israel's Right wingers and som ein the knesset see the constant oppression of the Palestinians as protecting the status qou the region could look very different.. The Riots in Egypt had nothing to do with Israel.. no hidden agenda's.. It has everything to do with people rising and seeking Freedom and Liberties.. I hope it spreads throught the middle east..

Read Rachelle Marshall's The Big Lie... in this months Washinton Report on Middle-east Affairs.. It's persepctive of the Arab conflcit from a Jewish Peace Camp Perspective..

This conflct has heros and vilians equally spread out over the ME... the truth is that Status qou is unacceptable anymore and transparancy for all relationships over there is over due.. Israel is a great country that has to make a choice.. Palestinians are a great people hoping tpo make better choices..going forward.. Both are children of the same God.. The holy Land could be a great place.. but to hold on to old ways of doing things will be it;s demise..israel cant be Spartan and Palestine cant be Bhantus. They both are linked. both deserve peace

David Suissa is a apologist look up his posts and they speak for themselves.

The Arab countries are not without sin but they do not have a powerful lobby in Washington controlling foreign policy in the interest of a foreign nation - I mean Israel - in case that needs to be stated. I suppose if Israel wants to continue stealing land from the Palestinians, shooting kids in the head for throwing stones and bombing its neighbours to smithereens that is their business but it should not be paid for by Americans. And please tell me why the Israel lobby has to attack American academics, journalists and individuals who criticize Isreal forcing them to resign from their jobs. Why do Israeli interests trump the right of free speech. Get the facts about Israel as they impact American interests at http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
What Israel is doing is ethnic cleansing. Silence is complicity. I will not be silent.

Somebody needs to lay off the FLAME propaganda.

People of all religions both pagan and monotheists been fighting the desert for 6,000 years and its going to be more fighting in desert for another 6,000. What's so important out in the desert? Nothing almost never grows there. The reason for the fighting in desert is because of these things:

1. Ancient holy sites

2. pushing ancient boundry lines

3. water rights

4. NOW OIL!

I urger everyone of different religious faiths to stop fighting over nothingless lands and get along. God will not make that desert your paradise. He made the desert for a reason, for spirtual cleansing and transfiguration purposes only.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Becuase living in desert is a birthright not a priviledge for Neda's sake.

Actually, there have been long intervals of peace where Jews and Muslims coexisted in the Middle East. Most of the conflict and resentment seems to track back to the 1940s. The evidence also suggests that confessional states aren't a viable solution to the Middle East's problems.

This is what I am concerned with:

Quote:

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The United States has given Egypt an average of $2 billion annually since 1979, much of it military aid, according to the Congressional Research Service. The combined total makes Egypt the second largest recipient of U.S. aid after Israel.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...70S0IN20110129

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Why are we, a nation trillions upon trillions in debit, giving aid to anyone? How about we create a surplus, and then when we have money to throw away to other unappreciating nations, do it then? How dare we look at our own military and propose budget cuts, when our country is financing the bloodthirsty legions of other countries? Enough is enough.

PS The Middle East is far more complicated then a single cut and paste.

Coincidentally, those payments started immediately after the Camp David Accords agreed to by Sadat, Begin and Carter. A cynic might say that the $2B/year [[and some amount to Israel) is the cost of peace between Egypt and israel.

while we are cutting teachers and others that would contribute to our home security we will send 3 plus billion to ISrael this year...plus all the monies riased TAX FREE that has found it's way through the loop holes..it's not that we shouldnt support other countries but if they receive monies they should at least not thumb their noses at our presidentg and his push for a practical peace.. read Washingtin Report on Near East Affiairs; a publication, and wonder when are we going to push for a comprehensive peace.. I know when my kids are acting badly I dont give them their allowance.

Possibly if we didn't bail other countries out while we ourselves are underwater, these nations might find ways to work together for thier own survival

just a thought
or a prayer
one that has slim likelyhood of ever happening
on both counts
1. financial independance [[cut the umbilical cord)
2. work together [[is it human nature to conflict?)

Did Israeli mothers ever send their children with bombs into businesses or public squares with bombs tied around their waists? No but Muslim Brotherhood do promote it
Hamas Hezbollah Muslim Badbreathhood want nothing less than to kill all Jews, how peace loving they are to wanting to kill all Jews and end the state of Israel. They talk out of both sides of their mouths.
The united staes sent billions to all these countries and all we see is hate and war.
It is the religion of hate that is causing all the trouble in these countries for years.
edit
Did I mention the tens of millions of taxpayer monies going to build Mosques?? how nice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Actually, there have been long intervals of peace where Jews and Muslims coexisted in the Middle East. Most of the conflict and resentment seems to track back to the 1940s. The evidence also suggests that confessional states aren't a viable solution to the Middle East's problems.

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You are pretty much right. Palestine had a Christian, Jewish and Muslim population that lived in relative peace and actually interacted a great deal with each other. The problem started with the Balfour declaration in 1917 when England, in exchange for much needed cash to fight WWI promised some rich Zionist bankers that they would promote the establishment of a homeland for Jews in Palestine. That is when the Jews from Europe started to immigrate to Palestine. So imagine that someone in another country decided to send boat loads of people to yours without approval of your government and that these people were known to want to take over your entire country. That is when the Arab "anti-Semitism" started.

first of all the groups you enspouse are not representatives of all the people in this conflct stop confusing yourself on the details.. your analogy is misguided.. the conflict is not about who is better at killing each other.. a cluster bomb on civilians is just as bad as a human bomb.. phosphorus bombs dropped on kids burns children like a rocket from Gaza.. they are equally bad and should be condemed. You seem to think this is a one dimensional conflict.. Read a little sometime and you will see brave Israelis speaking up and working towards a peaceful solution as well as the Palestinians who have denounced violence and are working hand in hand with Israelis. dont rational kiling by using the extremes ..

I could post many comments on how Shas and the Likud views Palestinians; and how Combantants for Peace and Not in My Name or other ex IDF so;diers have come out and supported the peace movements. Your Hasbra is showing when you only see the conflict and use the thugs of hamas and Hezbollah as your examples..

Why did Syria support Arafat and Hamas to destroy Lebanon?

The Muslim Brotherhood now want their own party in Egypt, a surprise?

hamas has nothing to do with Lebanon and the rogues in Syria is just that.. they have interfered with Lebanon and could of been kept in check [[remember Syria was partof our collition in Gulf War)/// MB yes they are feeling emboldened.. and of course they want a partof teh new Egypt..kind of like our tea party...but hopefully this is a new revolution of secular and moderates that will take over ...it will be a messy democracy at first but then again so was and is ours...it isnt something that happnes over nght..

You know far more than I about the region, situation, but I don't see Egypt going the way of Iran very soon, hopefully, but they have a long term way of getting their nose in the tent so to speak. I think obama demonized the tea party when all they did was rally and voice their opinions then he encourages the egyptian protesters.
I meant Hezbollah in Lebanon. Ousama Hamdan, is the Hamas leader, a little presence there. They both receive support from Syria and Iran and both want the same thing, the end of Israel though.

while extremists call for the end of Israel and are a threat...neutralize them with peace... stop the oppression of some for the benefit of all in the region.. as long as you build wals to keep people out on your land no problem...but to buiold a wall on disputed or others land ..that bisect peoples lives you going to get people angry and suspious of your real intentions. The radical use rhetoric Israeli's right use their might to push Palestinians to the brink economically, Psychologically and environmentally.. one uses crude methods to teach their children other uses high tech and indoctrination to teach their children to hate..we only see th ecrude methods..both sides are guilty.. There is a growing RIGHT wing in Israel [[our tea party) that wants to drive all Palestine into the bronk and force them out..drive them out. This antipeace camp grows funded by us every year..settlers throw rocks at old people and are protected by th eIDF ..kids throw rocks at geared up IDF and they get sent to prision to learn to be better terroriists... tell me...why do you support this behavior..when many brave Israelis are fighting for a just peace? I have talked to peace camps and entrenched settler supportors... I chose the path to peace..we all should... you dont let those u love self destruct...Israel is ultimately self-destructing.. and those who legitmately are critcial get demonized including Jewish intectuals...as self-hating.

Justice in the middle-east will come as the world stages becomes more open.. I support a vibrant Israel and a Free Palestine with viable borders and a real economy... but now is the time to educate ourselves on what is really happening in the world [[especially there). I challange all readers to research and find ways of bridging gaps.. here is an excellant article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-ros..._b_828620.html

I really think it is time to develop the Isle of Misfit Despots and Leaders...

I can just see it now one Christmas eve [[since most wont be with their families) .. Quackdaffy, BIBI, Mubrak, Ima dinner jacket, Assad and other are trying to get a game of Texas Hold um... having lost Saddam as a playing Partner.. BIBI suggests Putin [[Russian Connection)...and the guys vote "well OK" as long as you dont invite that Bin LAden Character he doesnt have a country and he always is talking about 72 virgins.. the whole irony is that BIBI is neighbors with Assad in the same condo and the Island is in the Arabian Gulf..but with restricted views..and no alcohol