Don't Read this thread if you want to sleep - Guardian Bldg.

Alright, for anyone else out there who really thought Fincano's buying of the Guardian Building was a bad idea ...

proof:
http://www.freep.com/article/2009081...an-Bldg.-soars

After spending $14 million to buy the Guardian in 2007 and budgeting another $13 million to renovate the interior and move employees to the building, county officials are asking for another $25 million to complete the renovation and move.

WTF, that MFing co------king miserable dirty s___ eater. That short on brains a----ole Ficano. Any drunk on the street could - and did - tell him buying the Guardian was stupid when the 1001 building was sitting empty.

grrr, I hate that man and every stupid worthless County Commissioner who left him get away with this ---- sucking pie-in-the-sky doodoo fest.

I'm sorry these numbers smack of bullshit! We toured the Guardian last October and the building is incredible! I'm sure an "IT upgrade" is necessary and costly but beyond that there shouldn't be much to be done. Sounds like another govenrment way to spend.

But Gnome, how do you really feel? Don't hold back ;)

$14million for a 750,000 square foot office building sounds pretty cheap. What does it cost to build a new, very cheaply built office building? $200 a square foot? So, $150million for a new cheap glass structure vs $52million for the Guardian. Still a bargain.

And, is it necessary for another $25 million for things like additional washrooms? Do they really need luxuries like that? The building ran fine for 80 years and now they have to make changes. It's not even clear why it's necessary to spend another $25 million. Overall, either way, IMO it's still a good deal.

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Originally Posted by gnome

Alright, for anyone else out there who really thought Fincano's buying of the Guardian Building was a bad idea ...

After spending $14 million to buy the Guardian in 2007 and budgeting another $13 million to renovate the interior and move employees to the building, county officials are asking for another $25 million to complete the renovation and move.

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You want to know how I really feel?

That fuckwad Ficano's fiducuary fickleness felates pig dick.

Hey, Socialism is expensive; get used to it.

[[:[[)

Does this count as "New Construction" in Downtown?

Should I dare ask......

What is going to happen to the historic Wayne County building? Is it going to become a member of Detroit's ruins since Ficano is spending millions of dollars on the Guardian?

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

And, is it necessary for another $25 million for things like additional washrooms? Do they really need luxuries like that? The building ran fine for 80 years and now they have to make changes. It's not even clear why it's necessary to spend another $25 million. Overall, either way, IMO it's still a good deal.

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Just guessing here...it *could* be an issue of changing regulations and building codes over the years. Old buildings usually can get away without complying until they transfer ownership at which point all the upgrades have to be done. For example are the existing restrooms not sufficiently handicap-accessible?

The biggest hurdle to reusing the Guardian over the years is the fact that it was built as a single-tenant building. Sterling tried taking it on after quite a few other owners couldn't do it, and even they threw in the towel and convinced the county to buy it. One of the biggest cost hurdles for converting it into multi-tenant space is the utility meters. There was only one set of meters for the entire building, and current practices have a meter for each rented space, so that each tenant pays their own gas, water and electrical.

The last plan in the papers is that the county won't fill the entire place itself, and will lease out some of the space. The work talked about in this new blurb could be related to creating bathrooms for the space they will make available.

Average commercial construction cost for office space in the Detroit MSA, and this back in boom times, was $150-$170 per square. That includes a lot of suburb, and probably accounts for a majority being 1-4 story structures.

Now that I think about it, if renovation is over $200, and the average build new price is $150-$170, the math is tough to justify no matter how much you love the building.

Has anyone seen the nightly covert asbestos removal going on with the train of dump trucks? Been going on for months and months...


My bet is they got socked with THAT at the change of ownership.


I haven't heard one word of it, is any mention of asbestos abatement obvious in your research, Gnome?!


Kickback from that could fund a run for governor...buy some respect with that walkin' around money!

Hey Gnome... know what will really give you insomnia?

... counting up all the money that former Wayne County Executive Bill Lucas threw down the toilet on the sweetheart lease deal with the Old County Building... :mad:

I've seen that kinda activity too.. IF in fact they're doing asbestos abatement [[did they hire a master abater? sorry, couldn't resist) that's going to skyrocket your cost until the cows come home and you usually don't have a choice in the matter - it either needs to be or it doesn't. However, it does make sense to do it at night as that area is a tightly packed traffic zone that isn't practical to take trucks out all day.

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Originally Posted by digitalvision

Average commercial construction cost for office space in the Detroit MSA, and this back in boom times, was $150-$170 per square. That includes a lot of suburb, and probably accounts for a majority being 1-4 story structures.

Now that I think about it, if renovation is over $200, and the average build new price is $150-$170, the math is tough to justify no matter how much you love the building.

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Renovation is not over $200 a square foot for the Guardian. Show me the math. You also can't compare 1-4 story structures to a 40 storey skyscraper.. A one-storey structure doesn't even have an elevator. And if you're comparing downtown structures, The 16 storey Compuware Building built in 2003 is 1.1 million square feet and cost $350million to build minus the parking garage. That comes out to a lot more than $170 a square foot. What they ended up paying for the 750,000 square foot Guardian is still a bargain compared to building new in downtown.

Does anyone know what the mirrored building is behind the Guardian Bldg which faces Woodward. It has been empty for years. What did it use to be and why hasnt no one thought about using it. Maybe it could be another transit station or something

The building behind on the Guardian Building [[511 Woodward) was also purchased for $2 million by the county; I heard there is an HVAC easement on the top of the 511 Woodward Building to serve the Guardian. So the county had to purchase this building as part of the deal.

Yep, 511 Woodward was purchased along with the Guardian and the First Street Parking Deck. The county bought 511 for $2 million and the First Street Parking Deck for $17 million with the Guardian coming in at $14.5 million. When the deal was originally announced for the Guardian, Ficano proposed a $43 million dollar bond issue to finance the purchase.

BTW, I don't think Farbman would let the Wayne County Building go empty. They have/will rotate one or a few of its many tenants to the space. Only 500 of Wayne County's 5,000 employees worked out of the building.

Also, here's an excerpt from a 2008 Michigan Citizen article on this purchase...

Quote:

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Commissioner Jewel Ware, who voted against the purchase of the Guardian Building in Aug. 2007, said she didn’t think the county could afford it then.

“I was doing what was best for my constituents,” Ware said. “I’m big on mandated services that the charter says we have to offer. The Guardian was an expense I didn’t think in any way the county could meet.”

According to Ware the Commission set a limit of $55 million for the County to spend on readying the building for employees.

The county has exceeded that limit, Ware believes, and it is her understanding that the Wayne County executive is coming back for approval of $35 million in additional spending.

Banessa Benha-Garmo, spokesperson for Ficano, denied that the administration will seek the money and that plans to move the employees from 600 Randolph into the Guardian will proceed on Dec. 18.

She said how many employees will remain in the historic county building is still being negotiated.

The County fiscal year runs from Oct. 1 through Sept. 30 and budget talks are under way in preparation for 2009-2010.

Expenses for the Guardian building far exceed the $3.6 million rental income projected, according the internal report.

Tenants include Bank of America.

In addition to paying for the Guardian building and the neighboring parking garage, the County currently leases its historic offices for $5 million annually from Southfield-based Old Wayne County Building Limited Partnership, which includes the Farbman Group.

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New Freep article questioning costs.

http://freep.com/article/20090831/NE...project-climbs