Brick-and-Mortar Retail Implosion rolls on... The Limited's closing 6 Detroit Sites

How are customers going to be able to touch and feel anything before they order it on Amazon? /end sarcasm/ This is turning into a watershed year for retail. Add these to the Macy's / Kmart / Sears casualty list.

"Six The Limited stores in metro Detroit will close by Sunday, part of the company's announcement Friday that it will shutter all its brick-and-mortar stores at the end of this weekend.

The New Albany, Ohio-based company reported the closures on its its website in a message that says, "We're sad to say that all The Limited stores nationwide have officially closed their doors."

It said it will continue to operate online only after Sunday's closures.

The company has six locations in metro Detroit: Somerset Collection and Oakland Mall in Troy; Laurel Place in Livonia; Twelve Oaks Mall in Novi; Great Lakes Crossing in Auburn Hills; and Lakeside Mall in Sterling Heights, according to the company's website. The stores in Oakland Mall, Great Lakes Crossing and Lakeside Mall are Backroom at The Limited shops."
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...des-6-sites-in

Or a indication of more parking decks on the way with ground floor... uhh, dentist offices? Can't do that on line, yet.

More proof of Sear's impending demise. They have just sold off one of their most defining assets, Craftsman Tools, to Black and Decker.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/05/inve...ker/index.html

The first job experience continues to shrink,one has to wonder what is left for high schoolers and those looking for part time work.

What is really left anymore,other then food service especially for the women folk as the mall and retailers were manys first experience.

Couple that with the lack of skills training in high schools,I would have to admit I would hate to be 16 again.

The real estate was the jewel in the crown of Sears,as soon as they moved that aspect into a separate company,the writing was on the wall.

Even at that Mr Lambert seems to be trying his best to hold on to it all and keeps pumping money into it to keep it afloat.I still try and support them as much as possible verses anybody else albeit mostly online anymore.

Porter Cable,black and decker which was the branch off of Dewalt are all owned by Ryobi now anyways.

Hot take: KMart, Sears, Macy's and The Limited are poorly run, did not adapt to changing shopping trends, were averse to technology and their actual store are unorganized messes.

Yes, I am aware of data that clearly shows brick and mortar is declining while eCommerce grows, but these are four examples of poor businesses and they've been poor for years. How long has it been since Sears tried to re-brand itself with "the softer side" or KMart has been foundering? 15? 20? These businesses did little to adapt, while others [[like Walmart, Target, Costco, etc) at least tried to change with the times. For every Limited, there's Forever 21, Dick's Ulta, TJ Maxx and a bunch of retailers that are actually growing their brick and mortar.

Forever 21 is world wide and has been downsizing for a long time,privately owned they borrowed $150 million from WF to prop up the balance sheet,their expansions have been self funded and with a line of credit from WF.

74 Billion was spent with food stamps in the US 2016,what would happen if that aspect was removed from the mix,would Wal-Mart still exist?

When the market crashed dollar general and the like stocks soared,when the economy started to pick up the stock dumped.wal-mart was the lower income source and Target was the middle and Macy,Sears etc.

As much as they would like one to believe the economy is still way down,my businesses are off 30% from last year,the uptick after school starts never came this year as it all ways did in the past,there are just fewer dollars around to be spent.

If the economy actually picks up I am thinking that the picture would look different then it does today.

Add to to the recent retail success stories Uniqlo, Ikea, H&M... Although I went to an H&M in the Detroit area recently and the selection there was pretty terrible compared to what I'm used to in New York.

Flash mob riots in malls across the country are a good reason to stay home and order online.

I've never been in The Limited-- what are they about?

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Originally Posted by bust

Add to to the recent retail success stories Uniqlo, Ikea, H&M... Although I went to an H&M in the Detroit area recently and the selection there was pretty terrible compared to what I'm used to in New York.

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All three of those are largely cheap, disposable merchandise. If those are the success stories, our problems are bigger than physical retail stores.

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Originally Posted by Shai_Hulud

All three of those are largely cheap, disposable merchandise. If those are the success stories, our problems are bigger than physical retail stores.

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Luxury retail is doing very well too. There's a waiting list for retail availability at Somerset South. Discount retailers are also expanding. It's the middle-tier that has gotten killed.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Luxury retail is doing very well too. There's a waiting list for retail availability at Somerset South. Discount retailers are also expanding. It's the middle-tier that has gotten killed.

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Yes, I'm aware. That trend has been commented on at least since the recession but I see very little discussion of why that is the case. Yes, the market is changing rapidly and the chains have made some missteps, but I think declining income levels are a factor also.

I have a great idea to save our local brick-and-mortar retail stores. Let’s raise the minimum wage!!

Here’s an outfit called “ Business For a Fair Minimum Wage”, http://www.businessforafairminimumwage.org, with some interesting advice.

“Dec. 22, 2016 – Business leaders across the country are speaking out in support of minimum wage increases taking effect on Dec. 31 and Jan. 1 because of the many economic benefits associated with a higher wage floor”

“History has proven time and again that increasing the minimum wage increases purchasing power among people who are living hand to mouth and must therefore spend the additional income on necessities -- food, clothing, transportation and so on,” said Arnold Hiatt, chairman of the Stride Rite Foundation and former CEO of the Stride Rite Corporation. “What better way to increase demand for the goods and services that businesses urgently need.”

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Originally Posted by Shai_Hulud

All three of those are largely cheap, disposable merchandise. If those are the success stories, our problems are bigger than physical retail stores.

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I take your point about disposable merchandise. And generally agree.

Except Uniqlo actually sells some good quality merchandise, in basic styles [[which I prefer). It lasts at least as long as what you have to pay much more for at Banana Republic. And they've made some interesting innovations with fabrics. Their heattech and airism lines live up to their marketing and help keep you surprisingly warm / cool. The baby and children's clothes at H&M are at least as good as what you can find at Carter's and Gerber, only with much better / less terrible style. Furniture at Crate and Barrel and Pottery Barn is now unfortunately often no better quality than Ikea, for a much higher price. Good quality furniture costs a fortune. At least the styles at Ikea don't usually offend me as much as the historicist stuff common elsewhere.

So yes, merchandise quality has gone down the past several decades. But so have prices. And it seems to me that the stores offering the best value proposition these days are often newer ones like those I mentioned, which at least offer more contemporary style. And that's why I think they're doing well.

H&M, Top Shop, Zara, Uniqlo are all fast fashion retailers. They take high fashion trends and turn them into ready-to-wear merchandise very quickly. Before these stores entered the market, the lasted fashions were only available at luxury retailers at high prices. Detroit has never been a place to attract the sort of market for fashion as say New York, LA or even Chicago. Somerset is only place really. But the fast fashion retailers are bringing trends to the masses at low prices. Of course the true cost can be seen in Bangladesh in the sweatshops that produce our cheap clothing.

As for death of brick-and-mortar. Don't count on it. We are still people, and unless we invent some sort of augmented/virtual reality were we can "feel" objects like they are real, many people will still want to shop in stores. Online shopping has just filled the niche in selling things that we don't need to "try on." The market share is significant but it won't even completely consume physical stores. Not so ironically, Amazon is planning to open physical stores all over the country.

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Originally Posted by casscorridor

Detroit has never been a place to attract the sort of market for fashion as say New York, LA or even Chicago. Somerset is only place really.

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I think you are horribly mistaken. While Detroit hasn't been thought of as the prime spot for fashion, it has always had the market for it. Best & Co, Himeholch's, Saks Fifth Avenue since 1940, Jacobson's, Bonwit Teller then Neiman Marcus, 3 Nordstroms, these were all once or now currently servicing the Detroit market. What Somerset Mall [[opened with Saks, Abercrombie & Fitch, and FAO Schwartz) then the Collection did was consolidate the high end stores and replaced Washington Boulevard and Saks Fifth Avenue Detroit.

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Originally Posted by casscorridor

As for death of brick-and-mortar. Don't count on it. We are still people, and unless we invent some sort of augmented/virtual reality were we can "feel" objects like they are real, many people will still want to shop in stores. Online shopping has just filled the niche in selling things that we don't need to "try on." The market share is significant but it won't even completely consume physical stores. Not so ironically, Amazon is planning to open physical stores all over the country.

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True, however brick & mortar faces yet another uphill challenge that hasn't been mentioned yet: "showroom-ing". Consumers visit a store touching, testing, trying on, or comparing features, then subsequently turn to the smartphone in their hand to locate the product they prefer at an online retailer [[or brick & mortar competitor) for a better price.

This is increasingly common among big ticket items like mattresses, TVs, and major appliances. The "showroom host" retailer is stuck with the labor cost of the associate, merchandise that has been handled, evaluated, and possibly even considered "used" . . . .and ends up with no revenue from a sale.

Exacerbated by poor senior management, this is a major factor as to why Borders went under.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

I think you are horribly mistaken. While Detroit hasn't been thought of as the prime spot for fashion, it has always had the market for it. Best & Co, Himeholch's, Saks Fifth Avenue since 1940, Jacobson's, Bonwit Teller then Neiman Marcus, 3 Nordstroms, these were all once or now currently servicing the Detroit market. What Somerset Mall [[opened with Saks, Abercrombie & Fitch, and FAO Schwartz) then the Collection did was consolidate the high end stores and replaced Washington Boulevard and Saks Fifth Avenue Detroit.

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While I can't speak for Casscorridor, I believe your reply, to a certain extent, underscores his/her point. Of the stores you list, only Jacobson's & Himelhoch's were Detroit-based and never expanded outside that market [[save a couple Jacobson's stores in FL aimed at MI expats). Consuming is not interchangeable with creating.

Saks, Best & Co, Bonwit's, Lord & Taylor, Abercrombie, Barney's, FAO Schwarz, and even Schrafft's lunch counter are/were NYC institutions. Nordstrom Seattle, and Neiman's Dallas.

In turn, Metro Detroit gave the rest of the nation Kmart, Little Ceasar's, and Domino's.
That's not to say there aren't creative, fashionable, cultured people in metro Detroit. It's just that, historically, trend-setting fashion hasn't been one of its major exports. With the ascendance of Shinola & Detroit Denim​, things may quickly be changing!

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Originally Posted by casscorridor

H&M, Top Shop, Zara, Uniqlo are all fast fashion retailers. They take high fashion trends and turn them into ready-to-wear merchandise very quickly. Before these stores entered the market, the lasted fashions were only available at luxury retailers at high prices. Detroit has never been a place to attract the sort of market for fashion as say New York, LA or even Chicago. Somerset is only place really. But the fast fashion retailers are bringing trends to the masses at low prices. Of course the true cost can be seen in Bangladesh in the sweatshops that produce our cheap clothing.

As for death of brick-and-mortar. Don't count on it. We are still people, and unless we invent some sort of augmented/virtual reality were we can "feel" objects like they are real, many people will still want to shop in stores. Online shopping has just filled the niche in selling things that we don't need to "try on." The market share is significant but it won't even completely consume physical stores. Not so ironically, Amazon is planning to open physical stores all over the country.

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I agree with everything you said, with one quibble. Uniqlo is not fast fashion and does not belong in the same category as H&M, Top Shop, and Zara. Uniqlo offers basic styles with few substantive changes from year to year. It's the store for socks, a utilitarian jacket, underwear that feels good in your choice of cut, everyday cords, a scarf with a nice pattern, a simple linen shirt, some cute outfits for your baby that aren't only pink or blue -- all for a great price, no logos, and without so much extra material around the waist [[in the case of their shirts and sweaters) like you get at most american retailers.

As to Onthe405's showrooming argument, yes, this is a problem at department stores. But you can only get what's sold at Uniqlo, H&M, Ikea, Zara, Top Shop, Mango, etc. from those retailers directly. The fact that department stores mostly sell overpriced branded crap available from dozens of alternate sources is a huge part of their problem. And not just because they lack exclusivity. A lot of people like me wouldn't buy an item of clothing with a logo [[unless it could be removed).

The only things I buy at Macy's are sheets, pillows, and bath towels. Usually a store brand. At Bloomingdale's a suit, a dress shirt, or their store brand merchandise -- on deep discount. But they're still my go to places for that.

I suspect a big part of the success of retailers like Uniqlo, Ikea, and H&M is they control the logistics from design to the [[contracting of the) manufacture to transport to sale -- cutting out so many middlemen.

Department stores lost a lot of my business when they organized everything by brand. I don't care about brands. If I'm shopping for a sweater I want to be able to compare them all in a sweater section. Don't make me go to 20 different parts of your store that mean nothing to me. At least they usually only have one shoe section.

There are just so many things department stores do wrong and stores like Uniqlo, H&M, and Zara do right.

That said, I agree sweatshops are a huge problem.

I'm so happy when my wife crochets me a hat.

It happens across all economic spectrums.

Many shop at Walmart because they have minimum wage jobs and that's all they can afford and the local pop/pops in rural America go out.

Middle class Americans have the internet Costo/Sam's Club/Home Depot/Lowe's so there's no incentive for independent hardware stores/grocery stores.

Middle class is buying online the most - look at Best Buy, Circuit City, Barnes and Noble , Limited etc as the price points get squeezed or people get overextended.

I was actually in Leon & Lulu's in Clawson with a friend last week and as we browsed through the book section - he remarked he had found two books he liked - and bought both of them on Amazon while we were in the store because it was $10 cheaper. So if we don't even support independent retail because it can be bought $5 or $10 cheaper online - the only thing we'll have to spend our shopping habits will be coffee shops, restaurants and office buildings.

A soulless existence devoid of places like Busboys and Poets, Chrome, Leon & Lulu, Rust Belt Market, Kramerbooks, John R King etc.

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Originally Posted by Onthe405

While I can't speak for Casscorridor, I believe your reply, to a certain extent, underscores his/her point. Of the stores you list, only Jacobson's & Himelhoch's were Detroit-based and never expanded outside that market [[save a couple Jacobson's stores in FL aimed at MI expats). Consuming is not interchangeable with creating.

Saks, Best & Co, Bonwit's, Lord & Taylor, Abercrombie, Barney's, FAO Schwarz, and even Schrafft's lunch counter are/were NYC institutions. Nordstrom Seattle, and Neiman's Dallas.

In turn, Metro Detroit gave the rest of the nation Kmart, Little Ceasar's, and Domino's.
That's not to say there aren't creative, fashionable, cultured people in metro Detroit. It's just that, historically, trend-setting fashion hasn't been one of its major exports. With the ascendance of Shinola & Detroit Denim​, things may quickly be changing!

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Yeah that's not how I took his/her point but yours makes sense too. The sentence about Somerset made me think it was more about consumption over creation.

However, I would say most retail is rather luck of the draw. Why did Bonwit Teller fail and not Lord and Taylor? Why Nordstrom and not I. Magnin? Himelhoch's could still be with us if the right leadership and vision. New York, LA, Chicago, and San Francisco are the fashion centers of the USA, no doubt.

Add Wet Seal to the list as announced this morning that they are closing all stores.

I think this is interesting.. These companies are running on online sales right now and not making money at their brick-and-mortar stores.. However, have they considered that their brand will live on as a fad at the moment and eventually die out without the marketing that goes along with having these stores. I look at the new Bonaboo opening in downtown Detroit and I really feel they got it right. They have a successful online business, but having the in-store experience of trying on clothing and the advertising that goes into that will undoubtedly boost their online sales. Have these companies considered the correlation between brick-and-mortar and online sales? I have actually experienced a similar thing to this, all but on a smaller scale. I used to work for Brann's Steakhouse in Macomb, which has now closed, when I was younger. The store struggled to meet its sales goals after being open for a few years, and after its new store shine wore off; however, the catering business was booming. The catering business sales for the east side of the State were being factored into the success of the store, until the family broke up the two entities. Doing this showed that the Macomb store was losing money, eventually leading to its closure. I wonder if the catering business is still having as much success on the east side of the State. And if not, it may be due to the lower name recognition of the company. Just some food for though [[pun-intended).

Interesting article on cnbc, dispels some myths and misconceptions.

"...Macy's released the list of 68 stores it had marked for closure. While many assumed those stores were located in failing malls, an analysis by CoStar found that two-thirds of them were actually in "A" or "B" malls. The biggest takeaway, according to the commercial real estate research firm, was that 60 percent of the affected stores were within 10 miles of another Macy's..."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/26/why-these-malls-are-thriving-while-others-die.html