Does anyone have old Trappers Alley or RenCen pics

I have very faint memories of what the Renaissance Center and Trappers Alley looked like before the 2000's when one was renovated by GM and the other became Greektown Casino.
The more I read about Trappers Alley, the more I feel it's a shame it didn't do well because the idea of a multilevel marketplace seems so distinctive and original, at least for Detroit. The casino pushing in seems to bring in a bland generic modernity instead of something more historical feeling.

As for the RenCen, I think I was in there once before the renovations started and it felt like a bunch of crooked hallways that made up a maze. I've been there recently for Youmacon but as a kid, it didn't feel like there was as much open space on the lower floors and there were many more stores in the building. I know the wintergarden didn't exist and I know the glass circular walkway on the second floor also is new. [[I also know about the berms outside that were removed)
But does anyone remember what else was changed or better have pictures to show either?

After the success of Fanuiel Hall in Boston, every city was convinced that a festival marketplace was their ticket to revitalization. Like most others, Trappers Alley was hot for about a year then quickly faded.

The RenCen was originally a very open sprawly sort of mess. It had several renovations prior to GM to address its main complaint, people could not navigate it well. Those renovations often closed off many of the long hallways and elevator shafts to help guide the movement. The second floor was the original retail floor, but it failed to draw people to it. It was just too hard to get to for the casual shopper. Other renovations included a new front side and connections to the millender center and people mover.

Knightmessenger... unfortunately all that Trappers Alley now is... is a vestibule for Greektown Casino. All those stairs and walkways are now off limits. The 5 floors are no longer accessible. With the casino, we have to remember that there are security floors between the 2 levels of the casino... and some of those my look out over the alley [[not sure if they do)... thus making them almost totally inaccessible. So the only accessible parts of Trappers Alley are the 1st floor, and the 3rd floor [[reached via escalator) where the People Mover station is located.

Did the RenCen always lack elevators that went to all the floors on the main area? [[A-1-2-3-4-5) The ones in the center don't stop at A [[ground floor) or 2 [[people mover & Millender skywalk level) Most of the others in the office tower area only go between 2 floors. If you want to go from floor A to 2, you'd have to switch elevators, other than 1 somewhat hidden, near the wintergarden entrance which I think is new.

Also, did the RenCen ever have a pool for hotel guests?

Yes the Westin's pool was where on the top floor of where the Wintergarden now stands.

The elevators were always a goofy thing there. At one time they had these four funky spiral staircases that were suspended in the middle of the grand lobby. Of course being brutalist in style they were made of large aggregate concrete.

One of the things that they have tried to do over and over again is to separate the Hotel areas from the retail areas. This has resulted in the odd 'you can't get there from here' sensations you get from time to time.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Knightmessenger... unfortunately all that Trappers Alley now is... is a vestibule for Greektown Casino. All those stairs and walkways are now off limits. The 5 floors are no longer accessible. With the casino, we have to remember that there are security floors between the 2 levels of the casino... and some of those my look out over the alley [[not sure if they do)... thus making them almost totally inaccessible. So the only accessible parts of Trappers Alley are the 1st floor, and the 3rd floor [[reached via escalator) where the People Mover station is located.

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Most of the staircases and walkways are still open to the public. There is a large section of the second floor that is occupied by the poker room and lounge area, which are open to the public. There is also a small seating area on the 4th floor which is open to the public, although it is not very large.The only floor completely off limits to the public is the fifth floor, which is really quite small.

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Originally Posted by erikd

Most of the staircases and walkways are still open to the public. There is a large section of the second floor that is occupied by the poker room and lounge area, which are open to the public. There is also a small seating area on the 4th floor which is open to the public, although it is not very large.The only floor completely off limits to the public is the fifth floor, which is really quite small.

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See you know the casino layout better than I do... all I can tell is that all the stairs from the ground floor are closed. You cannot access the upper levels from the first floor [[except via the escalator for the People Mover). And all the partial access to the levels are now very fragmented, and not a contiguous space as they were before.

The 5th floor, although smaller than floors 1-4... still had significant space in the south side of they alley, and in the Pegasus Restaurant Building.

Occasionally, old postcards or playing cards pop up online or antique stores that show the old Rencen lay-out. Saw one site on Ebay that had old Metropolitan Detroit magazines that had articles on Trapper's Alley and the stores there from the late 1980's. When I went to Trapper's Alley in the early '90s, it had "Plum Street", a comic book store, a space age miniature golf and pool hall on the top floor, and a kiosk where a guy turned cutlery into amazing aquatic themed jewelry. The Rencen-when I worked there in 1996-had a Waldenbooks, a Harmony House, and a Kinko's.