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Can you imagine what will Detroit will look like if, it had Chicago's rail system. Well here's a map of Chicago's L and Merta system on Metro Detroit,
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=https:...69666&t=m&z=10
Chicago L only map,
http://www.changinggears.info/wp-con...AM-620x399.png
Maps made by a reddit user,
http://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comm..._onto_detroit/
The maps are petty interesting.
Kinda looks like spoke on a wheel don't it.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by sg9018
Now that's a transit system ! Chicago rules. My daughter and I enjoy watching and riding trains and frequent the CTA & Metra.
Would like to try Amtrak but its $$$
Don't really know about the idea of an elevated transit system in Detroit, although the map [[and the idea of) a rapid transit system for Detroit is a valid idea.
If one is trying to create a new transit system for Detroit, I'd think considering the Seattle/Portland model would work the best. Seattle/King County uses an integrated bus based system with a little light rail thrown into the mix, coordinateing with the systems in Pierce and Snohomish counties. The BIG thing is that it's an integrated system.
The only way a Metro style system would work in Detroit is if the city, Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties could get their acts together to come up with a coordinated multi-county system. Until that happens, it's all a pipe dream
Interesting. However, if this were for real, then one of the commuter lines would plow right through Metro Airport while another plows right through BASF Wyandotte! Only I wish I would hear this:
"This is Southfield and Allen. Transfer to Detra trains and downtown Allen Park at Southfield and Allen. This is a Red Line train to Stanhope. [[some time later) Doors closing. Outer Drive and Dix is next. Doors open on the left at Outer Drive and Dix. Transfer to Detra trains at Outer Drive and Dix." Or "Greenfield and Tireman is next. In the direction of travel, doors open on the left at Greenfield and Tireman. This is an Orange Line train to downtown."
I wonder what the NYC Subway would look like if it was overlaid on Detroit!
ahahahahaha!!! The El voice is also seared into my head!Quote:
Originally Posted by mtburb
What I like is that the lines actually run through or near metroparks and state parks
Wheels commented that it looked like a hub and spoke system. He's right, and that's not good either, in as much as we don't live in a hub and spoke world anymore, witness the development in cities like Troy. If one does set up a h&s system, it must include crosstown service to get people where they're going and not strand them on the spoke.
I read an interesting article about how street cars are making a big comeback in several cities from the East coast, Middle American and Western cities. It was sad not to see Detroit on that list. They're even restoring the original street cars back to brand new condition and reusing them. It's actually creating a new industry in Philly. Pretty cool but I wish Detroit could get something going soon. And not just one line down Woodward but something city wide.
The only way Oakland County gets on board is if Wayne & Macomb go in together, it succeeds & suddenly Oakland County finds itself left out and stagnant
I know, and that's why a project like this will not happen, as much as it may be needed.
Detroit actually had a functional.
Just destroyed it.
And got absolutely no benefit from it.
My mind still can't wrap around it.
And "those people" can't be blamed for that one.
I also just noticed that the Blue Line runs right through the GM Tech Center and the Purple Line ends in the middle of Lake Saint Clair.
I like that, it goes right down my street. Can I get a stop?
Can you imagine what Detroit might look like with that type of infrastructure? Dense, bustling, vibrant, integrated, built-out, intact, connected, world class, vertical, youthful, dynamic, inspiring, an international destination.
Instead, Detroit is burnt-out, disconnected, decaying, a national embarrassment.
No use in daydreaming about what Detroit could have been, or even what it could be. Missed opportunities and a shameful lack of political will have driven this city and region into the ground.
Looking back at the mistakes made over the past century, there is no excuse for how Detroit turned out. The writing was on the wall, but the leadership did nothing.
I think it's interesting that few of Chicago's lines when overlaid on Detroit extend that far outside of the Detroit city limits, even though Detroit is a city that covers a smaller geographic area than Chicago. When light rail was still thought to be a possibility in Detroit there were a few people on this forum with the idea that light rail lines needed to extend substantially into the suburbs for them to be viable.
Indeed Detroit would be a far stronger city with a dense rail network. It's decline wouldn't have been quite as harsh, and prospects for improvement would be considerably better.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushStart
But, again, I feel that folks are conflating things. If you look at the Great Lakes cities that retained some semblance of rail [[Chicago, Cleveland), you don't see a terrific track record.
Cleveland is just barely better shape than Detroit. Poverty, crime and population loss is basically the same. The difference may be that Cleveland retained a somewhat more centralized core, and Cleveland has slightly better "bones" for revitalization. Cleveland just has a bit more to work with, and rail probably plays a role.
Chicago is in much better shape than Detroit, but is in bad shape compared to almost anywhere else. The L system has been key in retaining some degree of prosperity, but only the Northside lines really "work" in terms of gentrification and density. The Southside/Westside lines run through neighborhoods much like Detroit, with massive abandonment. Take the Green Line through the South Side, and it looks like Van Dyke on Detroit's East Side.
So there are likely other factors at play, in tandem with transit that result in a formula for success. Cleveland and South/West Sides of Chicago have underutilized rail running through urban wastelands. North Side of Chicago has well used rail running through vibrant areas.
Or perhaps more an excess of political will, or political willfulness.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushStart
What has happened wasn't a failure to act, it was acting assertively against regional transit and regionalism in general.
Looks backwards to me, all the CTA lines that are running through Detroit go in a totally different direction in Chicago. Like the red and purple lines, they go north and south, the green line goes north and south to the loop then goes east and west. Also Chicago is 228 square miles and the CTA barely leaves the city limits, Detroit is 139 square miles, so the rail would have to be scaled down a bit.
Sounds like the guy on the L. This is a red line train to Howard, Roosevelt is next, doors open on the left at Roosevelt, transfer to orange and green line trains at Roosevelt.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtburb
I guess, but you need extraordinary densities to justify lateral, crosstown rail. It's been considered endlessly in the Chicago area for linking outer areas within Chicago city as well as suburb to suburb rail via metra. I took a bus from Des Plaines to Oak park once...it took forever. Would have been nice to board a train and be there in twenty minutes.
Each suburb only looks at their relationship to the central city....not with other suburbs. Its seems to be this relationship in SE Michigan is quite the opposite.
That would seem to be so, but by the same token, there was absolutely no justification to build Interstate 696. Yet it was over its designed capacity the week that it opened.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolverine
It's hard to imagine what metro Detroit would become with decent public transportation. The only way to find out is to build some decent public transportation, and the only way to start that process is to urge your legislature to pass the package of bills that center on SB 909 and HB 5309, creating a regional transit authority for the first time in our history.
Once we have an RTA and it gets some voter-approved funding - and don't get me wrong, neither of those steps is a walk in the park - then we can develop some decent transit and see what happens! I think lots of good things can happen.
So - call your state rep and state senator - and tell them to support the Governor's transit authority legislation! Until that gets done, nothing gets done.
It looks so much different when laid out in Detroit. I can tell which line is which though just from experience.
I'm sure that it would be laid out differently in Detroit and wouldn't be nearly as big of a system just looks odd seeing the CTA L laid out in a different city.