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I searched this up on Google and found [[not really) a result that said "Michigan Turnpike Authority 1953-1958". There were no toll roads built in Michigan during the 1950's and there are none currently in the state. Does anyone know any information on the authority?
Michigan does have 3 tolled roads:
1. Mackinaw Bridge
2. Blue Water Bridge
3. International Bridge
This is the first I have heard of an actual single authority. Both the international and Mackinac have authorities. It appears they were planning turnpikes that never happened: The only thing I could find online was case law. It appears that the archives [[at the State Museum), has historical records.
http://174.123.24.242/leagle/xmlResu...WAR1-1950-1985
I wonder how much Detroit and Michigan would be different with toll roads? For example, would people avoid them forcing more traffic onto the arterials and transit? In many places with tolls [[Chicago, LA), it does not seem to make much of a difference.
That's kind of interesting. I found the reference in the state archives
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mh...32_50013_7.pdf
so evidently there was such an authority.
Just guessing, but maybe MI had planned to emulate PA, NJ, NY, OH, etc., and get the Detroit-Chicago expressway built [[and maybe Detroit-Grand Rapids as well) using a turnpike authority. Of course the enactment in 1956 of the law authorizing the Interstate system made a turnpike authority redundant, because MI got its high-priority roads [[Detroit-Chicago, Detroit-Grand Rapids, and Toledo-Detroit-Mackinac) built with a 90% federal match. I believe the only toll roads that were built during the 50's and 60's after authorization of the Interstate system were built to various corners of OK and KY where the Interstate system wasn't going. Toll road building only got going again in the 90's in TX and CA.
As to why the authority evidently stayed in business until '58, I suppose it took a while for the legislature to repeal the legislation establishing the authority after passage of the Interstate Highway Act.
Anyway, those are my speculations, and I'm sticking with them.
Interesting case. Sounds like it's describing an early, pre-Interstate version of I-75 [[Rockwood-Dearborn-Pontiac-Flint-Saginaw).Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
Obviously the specifics of routing [[and the fact that generally turnpikes have fewer exits than free Interstates) would make a difference in development patterns, but I suspect people still would use the turnpikes for commuting, just as commuters around Philadelphia use the Pennsylvania Turnpike and commuters in North Jersey use the Garden State Parkway. They'd adapt to the added cost of the tolls if the road got them from where they want to live to where they work.
http://www.mi.gov/mdot/0,1607,7-151-14013-28071--F,00.html
According to MDOT's website, Michigan dosen't have toll roads because Michigan is located off the nation's most used toll routes [[I-90, I-80, etc.).
Yeah, I see that answer, and it's true that Michigan is north of the historic major east-west routes, but if Kentucky was able to build and pay for the Mountain Parkway and various other roads that run into the middle of nowhere with tolls, you can't tell me that Michigan couldn't have built and paid for I-94, I-96, and I-75 using tolls. The fact is that just at the time Michigan seems to have been considering building its own system of expressways the Interstate Highway Act offered 90% federal funding, conditional on the roads being free roads. Turnpikes such as OH, PA, NY, and IN predated the Interstate system - the Interstate signage was added later because the roads already went where the Feds wanted a highway.Quote:
Originally Posted by bugs1739
Now, considering the condition of the roadway of, e.g., I-94 west of Detroit over the years compared with the Ohio Turnpike, or I-80 in Pennsylvania [[or I-70 south of Pittsburgh - the only Interstate I ever encountered with a speed limit lower than 55) compared with the Pennsylvania Turnpike, I'd say there are advantages to having toll roads with dedicated funding sources if you want really primo expressways.
Michigan formed its turnpike authority a few years after Ohio and Indiana began building their toll roads, and based it on the OH-IN-PA model. I believe the enabling act was passed in 1951, at the same time the "Act 51" funding formula for roads was passed. Act 51 of 1951 makes no mention of freeways. There were only short segments of freeway in Michigan at the time [[the Davison, Lodge, and the Detroit Industrial Expressway to Willow Run). It was expected that fuel and license-plate taxes would finance local roads, and that tolls would pay for the freeways.
I have a copy of the preliminary engineering report of the Turnpike Authority for the freeway between Detroit and Chicago, or more precisely between Ypsilanti [[Willow Run) and New Buffalo, dated Nov. 15, 1953. This is a yellowing typewritten report to William E. Slaughter, Chairman of the Turnpike Authority [[and care of the Aurora Gasoline Company at 15911 Wyoming) from the consulting firm of Edwards, Kelcey, and Beck of Newark, NJ.
This is the road that eventually became I-94, following the creation of the Highway Trust Fund in 1956. When federal aid at 90 per cent became available, there was no need for tolls, and the Turnpike Authority was dissolved, and its enabling law repealed in the early 1960's. [[Few people know that the Interstate System was authorized in 1944, not 1956 under Eisenhower, as is commonly reported. The 1956 act only created the funding mechanism.)
The 1953 report also shows a toll road "being constructed" along the route of I-75 south of Detroit, and a planned extension along Telegraph, then passing south of Pontiac,and eventually what became I-75 north of Davisburg to Bay City. That sure would have made a mess of Bloomfield and Waterford Townships.
Act 51 of 1951 had to be amended to increase the share of state funds for state highways from 44 to 47 per cent in 1957, to get the money for the 10% Interstate match for the new freeway system. [[The state share today stands at about 36 per cent.) The gasoline tax was raised from 4.5 cents to 6 cents/gallon in 1955 to finance the state share of 1950's and `60's roadbuilding.
On Michigan Ave before Fairlane there's an old toll booth. http://g.co/maps/68u3u I think that's quite old though... I thought I took a picture that I had somewhere. Google's resolution is hindering my online stalking abilities.
Tunrpikes on Plank Roads go back to the 1840's and stagecoaches. This is well before modern tollways. This was back when the roads were privately owned and you would have to pay each farmer to use them.Quote:
Originally Posted by laphoque
No doubt these authorities were modeled in part on Robert Moses' enormously successful Triborough Authority, a quasi-governmental organization that eventually wielded more power and money than many cities... then when the Federal subsidies rose to 90 percent, authorities were reserved for other projects, such as bridges, etc.
Actually a lot of funding from tolls on bridges like the Triborough goes to pay for the cost of delivering transit. Without tolls, the transit system would stand to lose out!
Well, depends. Authorities can be notoriously undemocratic. Moses was an authoritarian type who loved freeways and hated trains. He had plans to bisect and trisect Manhattan with freeways, destroying "slums" like SoHo. Finally, New Yorkers took his plans for what they were: madness.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
For an excellent overview of Moses' career, read "The Power Broker" by Robert Caro. It's all in there...
I've read it. Dammed thick book! I've always been one to question when only given one side of the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
The Power Borker is one man's take on Robert Moses. Caro released the book after Moses' death so there was really no way the man could defend himself. I am not saying I agree with everything he did, but he did accomplish an incredible amount of work. Robert Moses had charge of the Statewide Highway, Park, and Housing commissions. He had no ties to transit. He started out as a guy who wanted to work on Roosevelt's new deal and WPA and ended up in charge of a huge chunk of NYS government.
Moses was a guy who showed us what government can do, right or wrong. He is the reason why we have environmental impact statements and public involvement. We have those so that govt can't steamroll us. As a bonus it keeps people like me employed and reminding folks we need to look at all modes for upgrading transit. I am not saying that because I am a party pooper, I am saying that because thats what NEPA requires.
We've strayed a bit here, so to bring it back, many of the New York roads are tolled. In Michigan we only have tolled bridges.
Well, it's called a "corrective." For decades, people only got one side of the story: Moses' side. The forces arrayed on his behalf were legion: Auto companies, oil companies, tire manufacturers, the road lobby, steel companies, advertising firms, all preaching to the American public that roads were the way of the future, and that mass transit was something we should aspire out of. [[Never mind that Moses never drove a car in his life.) Sure, he started out as a goo-goo and a reformer, but once he tasted power, he never turned back. And, after ramming project after project down the throats of New Yorkers, they finally turned against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
Moses' side of the story is told in the massive public works, the freeways, the expressways, the bridges, the dams, written in concrete and steel. Moses' name was famous, and he inspired a whole generation of reckless freeway planners. And then, finally, Caro writes one book -- and I am amused that you call this "one-sided." If anything, Caro is very fair to Moses in that book.
And that's a big book to you? Well, I guess I won't be buying you Atlas Shrugged for X-mas. :)
To be fair, Caro was not Moses' first critic. A google search will show that. I agree that power corrupts and thats why we have all of those requirements for NEPA, public involvement, and title VI.
The best we can do is learn from the mistakes of the past and try to provide for a good future.
^^Agreed. :)
I've read The Power Broker three times. Am I a sick person? Moses' Triborough Bridge Authority was indeed probably the model for the toll-road authorities of the nearby states. Since Caro's book there have been some works by other historians that rehabilitate Moses' reputation a bit, but I believe Caro is largely right on.
One interesting piece of paperwork I ran across from the late 1930's was a letter to the Michigan highway department, signed by Moses, urging the creation of a toll-road authority for Michigan [[probably knowing it might mean consulting fees for "the Moses men"). The Metropolitan Parks authority for the counties around Detroit is clearly a replica of Moses' state parks on Long Island. After spending lots of summer afternoons at Metropolitan Beach in the 1960's, I got a strong sense of deja vu on seeing the pictures in the book of Jones Beach.
Now I'm waiting for the last two volumes [[of five) of Caro's biography of LBJ.
Yeah, I've been to Jones Beach a few times. For a New York City dweller without a car, it was an odyssey to get there: Subway to Brooklyn train station, train out to Long Island, transfer to a bus. Moses really designed things for cars first, with anything else as a secondary thought, if at all. And I think your comment about the MetroParks system is spot-on. Even today, it's a sore spot that the city of Detroit helps subsidize those parks, even though a third of its residents don't have cars and can't get to them via transit...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandhouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandhouse
It's always good to hear from someone with actual information, as opposed to my uninformed speculation. And it's kind of funny that the Motor State was late getting into the game of building expressways [[the Detroit Industrial Expressway - future I-94 - from Willow Run to Michigan Ave kind of doesn't count, because it was a one-off built to support the war effort), but then it worked out because MI was able to take advantage of the 90% federal fund when it got serious about building expressways.
I stand corrected as far as the Interstate system being authorized in 1944, not 1956. I've seen copies of maps from the 40's showing something very much like the present Interstate system, but I had always thought those were "gee wouldn't it be cool if we could build this" things, and not serious attempts to outline something that had been authorized by law.
I still question the statement on the MIDOT site that the freeways are free because it was decided they would never pay for themselves. But then, a more accurate statement like "we were thinking about building toll roads but we got into the act later than Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, and New Jersey, and before we got concrete laid the 90% federal match for free roads became available and we thought that would be a hell of a deal" might be bureaucratically embarrassing.
http://books.google.com/books?id=304..._cloud_r&cad=6
This link shows that the Rockwood-Saginaw toll road [[now I-75) was going to open in 1959. And I also found that the toll road was to be completed in 1962. But of course, the 1956 Federal Aid Highway Act cancelled these plans.