Street Railway Service in Detroit Ended 55 Years Ago Today (April 8, 1956)

Today marks the 55th Anniversary of the end of regular streetcar service in Detroit. It was Sunday, April 8, 1956, when the city's PCC streetcars were replaced by GM diesel buses on the DSR's Woodward Avenue line.

Check out this two-minute "silent" black-&-white film clip taken on that last day of streetcar operation along the streets of Detroit:
http://www.detroittransithistory.info/PCC/DetroitPCC-parade.html
[[PLEASE NOTE: The video-clip may initially take a few minutes to download)

Attachment 9306
[[Photo source: Dave's Electric Railroads —Stephen M. Scalzo collection)

For those interested in a more detailed look at the end of an era in Detroit's history please view the following web-page at:
http://www.detroittransithistory.inf...roitPCC-5.html

Yet another example of a city that has shot itself in the @ss with just about every long term decision its ever made about anything to do with future planning. Now we have to put back in another Woodward so called mass transit system costing millions. Mexico enjoyed these cars for years after they were sold to south of the border.

Truly the dumbest thing Detroit ever did.

I wasn't aware of this sad anniversary, but I think of the street cars every day as I drive over their re-emerging tracks on Michigan, near Trumbull.

The streetcars were nice. We used to take the Six-Mile bus [[Whittier-Kelly-Seymour-McNicholls) to Gratiot and take the Gratiot streetcar downtown to Hudson's. Even with the deferred maintenance on the tracks, the streetcars didn't lurch as much, the seats were more comfortable. and even standing was easier.

In 1961, I worked downtown and would often take the Gratiot bus to work. The bus was always crowded and going home often had to wait in line for two or three buses before i could get aboard,

Here's a great Hall of Fame thread about the DSR streetcars of Detroit. There are several other threads about streetcars in the city but this is the most comprehensive.

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1134428567

One of the old PCC Streetcars is across the street from the building I work in on Selfridge, I will get some pictures of it and upload them to this thread and the transit thread.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

The streetcars were nice. We used to take the Six-Mile bus [[Whittier-Kelly-Seymour-McNicholls) to Gratiot and take the Gratiot streetcar downtown to Hudson's. Even with the deferred maintenance on the tracks, the streetcars didn't lurch as much, the seats were more comfortable. and even standing was easier.

In 1961, I worked downtown and would often take the Gratiot bus to work. The bus was always crowded and going home often had to wait in line for two or three buses before i could get aboard,

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I also worked in downtown Detroit in 1961. Not only did you sometimes have to wait for 2 or three busses, but usually the trip meant standing up most of the way home because all of the seats were filled.

I do not remember riding a streetcar after about the age of 8. I suppose that is because we moved to an area without a streetcar line. As a young child, the gas fumes from the busses always made me sick. So, it was a real pleasure to climb aboard a streetcar where I knew I would not get sick. Thank heavens, I eventually out grew that problem.

It was short sighted of city leaders to discontinue the running of street cars. They were under th impression that the new bus system was a way for the city's future and a car in every driveway crap. DDOT busses would run more efficient and increase it's ridership if laws were changed so that the money DDOt make through ridership would go directly into DDOT instead of the city's general funds. Ridership had increase on DDOT and Smart since the rising in gas prices and residents losing their cars due to layoffs and high insurance. Money also could had been used for more security on the busses and extra mechanics.

Can anyone on DYes tell me how differently the new bus system operated? Since removing the rail lines is usually considered to have been a terrible decision, I've always wondered what made the streetcars so much better. In theory buses would have served the same purpose in a very similar way, but I wasn't around back then to have experienced the switch. Just looking for some first hand accounts of this, thanks!

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Originally Posted by ResurgetCineribus

Can anyone on DYes tell me how differently the new bus system operated? Since removing the rail lines is usually considered to have been a terrible decision, I've always wondered what made the streetcars so much better. In theory buses would have served the same purpose in a very similar way, but I wasn't around back then to have experienced the switch. Just looking for some first hand accounts of this, thanks!

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For the most part, streetcars are more pleasant to ride than buses. They do not lurch nor do they change lanes. There are no gasoline or diesel fumes.

The downside of streetcars are that they are more expensive to run. Track maintenance and overhead wire maintenance eats up both manpower and dollars. Individual streetcars are not maintenance intensive compared to buses [[electric motors are rather simple things), but the cost of the system is what kills you.

The other downside of streetcars is that they take up a lot of the street. You need to have "safety islands" for the passengers to board and get off. There are also a large number of pedestrians crossing the street to get to the safety island, increasing auto/pedestrian incidents.

Henry Barnes, the legendary traffic engineer, said that "I often said I didn’t mind street cars except for the fact that they ran on the street."

Electric light rail transit works most efficiently on dedicated right-of-way. Light rail in the street [[either the center or the side) has conflicts with automobiles using the streets.

Quotes from Henry Barnes on traffic:

• "You can't be a nice guy and solve traffic"
• "As things stood now, a downtown shopper needed a four-leaf clover, a voodoo charm, and a St. Christopher's medal to make it in one piece from one curbstone to the other"
• "In this business there are very few problems that can't be solved with some yellow paint and a little bit of common sense."
• "I often said I didn’t mind street cars except for the fact that they ran on the street."

Light rail vs. hot air: Would Woodward streetcars mean end of the line for Thanksgiving parade balloons?

By Bill Shea

The introduction of streetcars powered by overhead electrical lines — which is a distinct possibility for Detroit's Woodward Avenue light-rail project — could spell the end of the Thanksgiving Day parade's popular helium balloon characters.


The topic arose this afternoon during a presentation about the rail project to the Detroit City Council by Norm White, the city's CFO and lead on the light-rail project.


Council President Charles Pugh asked White whether the project would affect the annual America's Thanksgiving Parade, which is put on by The Parade Co. The parade would share some of the same route as the rail line.


White said both a curbside rail line and a layout running in the center of Woodward Avenue would make having parade balloons too dangerous because they would strike the live aerial electrical lines.


The $520 million, 9.3-mile line is expected to run from Hart Plaza to Eight Mile Road by 2015. The parade, begun by the former J.L. Hudson Co. in 1924, runs from Mack Avenue to Congress Street.
During the council presentation, someone joked that the event would become the "The Gratiot parade."


There was no further discussion about the parade during the meeting.


"We just don't know what the concrete plans are" for the [[rail project), whether it's down the center or the side" of Woodward, said Tony Michaels, president of The Parade Co. "There's not a set of definite plans at this point, so there's nothing for me to comment on at this point."


Michaels said he's had talks on the topic with Matt Cullen, CEO of the private consortium that's invested $100 million into the light-rail line. Cullen also sits on The Parade Co.'s board. Michaels declined to comment on those discussions.


An email seeking comment was sent to Cullen.


Balloons in the past have included Elmo, Spider-Man, SpongeBob SquarePants, Snoopy, Captain Underpants and The Parade Co.'s own clown logo character.


The city is setting up its share of funding. A private consortium has raised $100 million in donations and tax breaks, and the federal government has awarded the project a $25 million stimulus grant.
Some City Council members, including Pugh and JoAnne Watson, also registered displeasure at not being personally invited to be more involved in the Woodward rail process.


Pugh asked White to provide monthly updates to a council committee.


In other developments about the rail project from the meeting:
• The project's cost was put at $520 million. It previously was estimated at $500 million.
• It's expected to be built at once, rather than two phases. The previous plan was construction from Hart Plaza to Grand Boulevard, then to 8 Mile.
• The route could be completely running by 2015. Previously, the date was 2016.
• Annual operating costs are estimated at $10 million, which would be paid via fares, state money already allocated and federal grants. White also said the project would seek about $2 million from the general fund.
• If the process continues at its current planning and regulatory pace — which has been quickened by the federal government — final decision work could begin possibly by August.

Crain's reporter Sherri Welch contributed to this story


http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ean-end-of-the

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Originally Posted by bc_n_dtown

Today marks the 55th Anniversary of the end of regular streetcar service in Detroit.

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3 Cheers to that decision! Hip hip...
Ahem *coughs* sarcasm.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...roit_cheer.jpg

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Originally Posted by Hermod

For the most part, streetcars are more pleasant to ride than buses. They do not lurch nor do they change lanes. There are no gasoline or diesel fumes.

The downside of streetcars are that they are more expensive to run. Track maintenance and overhead wire maintenance eats up both manpower and dollars. Individual streetcars are not maintenance intensive compared to buses [[electric motors are rather simple things), but the cost of the system is what kills you.

The other downside of streetcars is that they take up a lot of the street. You need to have "safety islands" for the passengers to board and get off. There are also a large number of pedestrians crossing the street to get to the safety island, increasing auto/pedestrian incidents.

Henry Barnes, the legendary traffic engineer, said that "I often said I didn’t mind street cars except for the fact that they ran on the street."

Electric light rail transit works most efficiently on dedicated right-of-way. Light rail in the street [[either the center or the side) has conflicts with automobiles using the streets.

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Those are all interesting points. But Wikipedia says he is also the guy who introduced bus lanes. Is there a key difference, or did he simply change his mind later on?

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Originally Posted by fryar

Those are all interesting points. But Wikipedia says he is also the guy who introduced bus lanes. Is there a key difference, or did he simply change his mind later on?

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I read his autobiography [[back in the early 70s) and he was not against mass transit so long as it didn't interfere with the orderly flow of auto traffic. He really liked streetcars so long as they were on their own dedicated right-of-way. He was a firm believer in alternating one way streets [[easier to sync the traffic lights). Although he had a reputation for not suffering fools gladly, he was a pretty funny guy and his autobio was really a good read.

I thik that he felt that bus lanes didn't take up as much traffic space. He was violently opposed to on-street parking and wanted to use the curb lane for the buses so that they weren't constantly pulling out into the auto lanes and screwing up the flow of traffic.

I'm sure they can shut off the power to 2 miles of Woodward while the parade is going on. It's not as if streetcars would be running through the middle [[or sides) of the parade anyway.

Did they not have this parade in the old days?

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Originally Posted by fryar

Did they not have this parade in the old days?

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Rocko's post says Hudson started it in '24, but I would doubt they had the balloons. Was helium even being used then?


Did the DSR own the SW&A till the very end? I can't remember. If so, were they responsable for Windsor's loss of the Streetcar as well??

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Originally Posted by Magnatomicflux

Did the DSR own the SW&A till the very end? I can't remember. If so, were they responsable for Windsor's loss of the Streetcar as well??

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Even when the streetcars did not have much competition, they were not highly profitable operations. T%hey operated on very thin margins. The huge jump in labor costs post World War One and the effects of deferring maintenance costs were catching up to them. In many cities, the government took over the private streetcar lines and found out that their financial situation was bleak [[after years of the politicians screaming about the obscene profits). In most of the cities, it just seemed cheaper to go to buses [[cue the standard conspiracy theories about National City Lines).

Thanks Hermod. So they do not lurch and there are no fumes. These seem pretty minor issues to someone who relied on the system. Were there changes in routes and service times? Did these long lines of people waiting for the streetcars suddenly not need mass transit when the busses came in?

I understand there is an aesthetic to them that busses definetely lack. But how much worse were the busses for them to be so villified, and the removal of the streetcars to have been such a dumb idea.

The trolley system in Detroit have become outdated and useless. Mostly middle class whites are buying new cars so they drive in and out od Detroit to the suburban ticky tacky little cookie cutter boxes. The D-DOT took over and entire bus line. By the mid 1970s Coleman Young and cronies decided to revitilze the Washington Blvd corridor to have ove north side street closed and bring in the trolley that would connect to E. Jefferson to Hart Plaza. By the late 1990s the Washington Street trolley is gone and the street is transformed back to original set since the early 1900s.

The Detroit Street Rail Cars were sold to Mexico City, Mexico. They used the street cars to this day.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

" Ding,ding,ding, from the trolley. Ring, ring, ring, from the bell. Gone, gone gone to Mexico City so it could be turn to rusted trash!

Neda, I miss you so.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Truly the dumbest thing Detroit ever did.

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The all white Detroit "COMMON" council did it. Folks were driving cars to the suburbs. So who needs it.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Even when the streetcars did not have much competition, they were not highly profitable operations. T%hey operated on very thin margins. The huge jump in labor costs post World War One and the effects of deferring maintenance costs were catching up to them. In many cities, the government took over the private streetcar lines and found out that their financial situation was bleak [[after years of the politicians screaming about the obscene profits). In most of the cities, it just seemed cheaper to go to buses [[cue the standard conspiracy theories about National City Lines).

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The profit on these were not from providing transit but from opening up the area served to early urban sprawl. Nearly all of the streetcar companies owned land along the route for development. At the end of the line they would usually put an attraction such as Jefferson Beach or Edgwater where they would make profits off of entertainment.

BTW ballons in the Detroit parade is a relatively new phenomena. I don't recall any prior the People Mover being built. I am surprised that the list of balloons above did not include Chilly Willy the penguin that escaped in 1990!

This slide was just listed on EBAY of DSR Peter Witt car #3888. A rare color image of the older non-Maroon DSR colors. Anyone recognize this location based on the building behind?

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$%28KGrHqUOK...21%7E%7E_3.JPG

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

The profit on these were not from providing transit but from opening up the area served to early urban sprawl. Nearly all of the streetcar companies owned land along the route for development. At the end of the line they would usually put an attraction such as Jefferson Beach or Edgwater where they would make profits off of entertainment.

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Au Contraire: Destinations such as Jefferson Beach, Edgewater Park, and Eastwood Park were built as "traffic generators" so that the capacity [[cars and electric generators) would not sit idle on weekends and holidays. Most electric lines in the US tried to have some kind of recreation facility at the far end of their line for this purpose even if the facility itself might not be tremendously profitable. We are not talking the Disney empire here, admission and rides were cheap. The whole purpose of the attraction was to keep the system operating at capacity.