Why Can the Europeans Do it?

http://news.michiganradio.org/post/raising-gas-taxes

"... I spent last week in England and Scotland, where gas costs more than eight dollars a gallon. That would give people heart failure here. But I didn’t see a single pothole or crumbling bridge. I didn’t see a single car belching smoke or missing fenders, either; they have strict laws about that sort of thing. The British support something else with their tax dollars: A wonderful, efficient and affordable public transportation system. I took a four hundred mile train trip one day and was able to read, nap and access the internet..."


Meanwhile, we're starting to look like a third world country with our bridges falling down. Why do Americans appear to wait until catastrophe hits before doing anything?

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Originally Posted by maxx

Meanwhile, we're starting to look like a third world country with our bridges falling down. Why do Americans appear to wait until catastrophe hits before doing anything?

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Because our educational system sucks enough to let people think we can get by on little more than Jesus, American Exceptionalism, and the right to bear arms.

Hard work is for suckers. And Europeans and Asians. We're all gonna go to law school and get rich!

Law school? A lot plan to be pro athletes or rappers. Ye gads, how the money rolls in.

The US is a hell of a lot bigger, too. We stretch infrastructure to some remote places that probably really should be left to fend for themselves. High population density is a definite advantage when paying for infrastructure.

Because they're willing to pay much higher taxes for much higher living standards.

Here, we demand lower taxes ad infinitum, That way, only the extremely wealthy can enjoy a high standard of living. Mind you, this is despite the fact that our taxes are among the lowest in the industrialized world.

So I'm sure arbitrarily lowering taxes for businesses in this state will bring us to prosperity. The governor told me so.

These are reasons why I cannot ever vote Republican as long as the party exists as it currently does.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Because they're willing to pay much higher taxes for much higher living standards.

Here, we demand lower taxes ad infinitum, That way, only the extremely wealthy can enjoy a high standard of living. Mind you, this is despite the fact that our taxes are among the lowest in the industrialized world.

So I'm sure arbitrarily lowering taxes for businesses in this state will bring us to prosperity. The governor told me so.

These are reasons why I cannot ever vote Republican as long as the party exists as it currently does.

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Exactly. We have bridges falling into rivers, rolling blackouts, consistently-delayed flights, and clogged roadways. Yet our conventional wisdom goes batshit bonkers when the CEO of GM dares to suggest a $0.50 increase in the federal gasoline tax.

Mind you, even the poorest of Europeans have been paying much higher gas taxes for years. On the other hand, they're not forced to sit parked in gridlock on a collapsing bridge on their way to the airport, where their flight will be delayed due to a power outage.

The scary thing is, the U.S. paid to rebuild much of Europe after World War II. When it came to our own country, we decided to build a lot of cheap plastic houses, strip malls, and fast food joints, as if to show the world just how tasteless and uncivilized our culture really is. American Exceptionalism, my ass.

President Obama is kicking $100.000,000,000 a year into the IMF's slush fund annually. On top of that, he has indicated that we would also be helping Greece out on a bi-lateral basis. Also, the EU doesn't spend much to defend itself relying instead of US taxpayers to put out fires in Kosovo, keep the oil flowing, and maintain a large presence in case Russia gets too testy. These US services and benefits help subsidize the EU. That is one reason Europe has had more money available for health care and some additional niceties.

Because they are a bunch of commie, pinko, faggot, socialist, librul, left-wing, do gooding, kumbaya.......????......who actually care about their countries. Shame on them.

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Originally Posted by oladub

Also, the EU doesn't spend much to defend itself relying instead of US taxpayers to put out fires in Kosovo, keep the oil flowing, and maintain a large presence in case Russia gets too testy.

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You're right. European nations don't spend nearly as much on defense as we do. Then again, they're not nearly as beholden to Saudi Arabia as we are, because they're investing their money in rail, wind power, and other technologies that don't require petroleum to make a 30-mile commute to Walmart. They also spend a lot less money on healthcare too, and with better results, I might add.

But regardless of how the money is spent, Europeans still pay far more in taxes than we do, and studies show they're actually a whole hell of a lot happier than we are. Even if their billionaires aren't quite as wealthy as our billionaires, their poor and middle class--the bulk of the populace--are arguably better off than ours.

We just like to preach "personal responsibility", and then blame the government for our own personal shortcomings.

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Originally Posted by oladub

President Obama is kicking $100.000,000,000 a year into the IMF's slush fund annually..

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and congress didn't vote it into the budget?

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Originally Posted by rb336

and congress didn't vote it into the budget?

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Not so far this year, some Republicans aren't cooperating, but when Obama had a Democratic congress they did vote it in. The problem is that we don't tax Americans enough to pay for such things. :rolleyes:

Suddenly GM's CEO has got religion and is saying that the price of gas should be raised a dollar. Of course, it has nothing to do with their latest car. har har

Capitalism creates a dog-eat-dog society where it's OK to screw your neighbor if you come out ahead. Everyone is looking for the deal, the best bargain, the cheapest labor. Businesses take the attitude that no matter how much they get taxed or regulated, the customer will always pay for it. In school the principles of the American Revolution get boiled down to the importance of freedom and not having to pay taxes. "United We Stand" gets short shrift except when we are fighting someone outside our borders, and we always seem to be fighting someone out there. Fear is our unifying force instead of love for what makes our country worth living in. At the same time fear is used to divide us by people who are only interested in their own personal gain. We get hooked on the soma of TV and video games or on actual drugs so that it takes a more and more blatant threat to our survival to rouse some people to action. End of rant.

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Originally Posted by oladub

President Obama is kicking $100.000,000,000 a year into the IMF's slush fund annually. On top of that, he has indicated that we would also be helping Greece out on a bi-lateral basis. Also, the EU doesn't spend much to defend itself relying instead of US taxpayers to put out fires in Kosovo, keep the oil flowing, and maintain a large presence in case Russia gets too testy. These US services and benefits help subsidize the EU. That is one reason Europe has had more money available for health care and some additional niceties.

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Europeans don't have the empire that the U.S. has constructed. We need to share the job of world police with other nations.

Same over here in the Netherlands.

We also have a heavy tax base but see what you get in return. The roads are in excellent condition, though there was winter damage. In spring the potholes are gone. The infrastructure is efficient. The public transport is mostly privatized. Not always a good thing but we manage.



Listen to this.

Internet access is everywhere. Just an hour ago I had some maintainance work being done on my connection. Result was that the download stream was beefed up to around 30 megabytes.... per second. In theory, and if I was willing to pay for it I could go up to 240 Megabytes per second!!! But that would be totally ridiculous! That would be the same as downloading a full sized 4 gigabyte DVD in 20 seconds.

The passage below is wholly my own opinion based on my own thoughts and observations.

I personally believe that the US suffers from an affliction of American Exceptionalism. Somewhere along the way, probably after World War II, we got complacent. We became convinced that just by virtue of being American, we were somehow blessed with Divine Providence. While we've spent the past 5 or 6 decades looking in the mirror and thinking about how incredible we are, we got fat, lazy, and stupid. In the meantime, we sent buckets of money to Europe and Japan to [[rightfully) rebuild their infrastructure and economies. They took the ball and ran with it, and have been working their asses off to catch up.

The Sarah Palins and Joe the Plumbers you see on television represent the American Exceptionalism mindset. The people who think like this love their country, and the principles for which it stands. Of that, I do not deny them. But their fatal flaw is that they are largely uneducated, and many of them do not have passports, let alone have ever left the United States. Thus, they never have the opportunity to learn from ideas presented elsewhere. They can't imagine that anything could *possibly* be improved upon the way it already is in the good ole U S of A. Why? Because America is #1, that's why! Their love of their nation is not a mature and responsible adult love, accepting flaws and shortcomings, but the immature love that a child feels for its mother. It's a love based not on respect and understanding, but a love that results from only knowing one way of existing, and having someone responsible always there to wipe your ass.

And that's all and good. Every nation has it's lot of poor and working-class folks who aren't particularly worldly. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem we have in the US is that we let these people dominate the discussion. Otherwise-smart people allow the Sarah Palins to dictate which issues are important. These people should have books thrown at them, and instead we give them pens and paper to write the agenda [[and rewrite history). They get pissy about the "disrespect" that they receive, and like an insecure parent, we coddle them.

It's only until we start demanding better of ourselves that we'll see any improvement. We cannot continue pandering to the Lowest Common Denominator and expect to have an educational system on par with Asian nations, or the standard of living enjoyed in Europe, or even the level of health enjoyed by our Neighbours to the North. We need to stop making excuses for laziness, and stop living off the laurels of our grandfathers. It's time we get our asses moving and start challenging our neighbors to do the same, lest they get left behind.

I personally have many friends who have not just moved to other states, but have outright given up on the United States. They grew sick and tired of the culture of selfishness and stupidity--the culture of guns, cheese doodles, and Busch Light. The culture where driving a car really really fast is considered a "sport". And these hard-working, educated young people permanently moved to places like Germany, South Korea, and Spain, because they feel there is no place for them in their own country. Frankly, I don't blame them one bit, and it may not be long before I follow suit.

and republicans, when they were in power, did what? oh - the same thing. The IMF is a tool of the corporatists who use it as leverage to exploit the people in the countries to whom the IMF gives money.

i agree - dump ALL support for the IMF

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Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

The passage below is wholly my own opinion based on my own thoughts and observations.

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Most excellent to read. Thanks, you really gave it some thought.

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Originally Posted by Whitehouse

Most excellent to read. Thanks, you really gave it some thought.

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After returning from Poland last year, one of my colleagues asked me what it was like.

I said, "We are a proud nation. They have pride."

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But their fatal flaw is that they are largely uneducated, and many of them do not have passports, let alone have ever left the United States.

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You don't have to travel to learn about other nations. In fact, I have learned more from reading and watching informative TV shows than from traveling which only gives one a superficial idea of other cultures. Most ignorance in the U.S. is self-inflicted although it is hard to be informed when you are working three jobs. But if you don't have children that you can't afford to raise, you might not have to work every waking hour of your life.
I read a speech given recently at Hillsdale College. The speaker castigated people who taught family planning and extolled the sanctity of human life. How dare anyone tell the poor that they shouldn't have all the children they wanted? Of course, he didn't mention that the business community is happiest when there is a large labor pool to pick from because the price of labor is low. One time in history when the price of labor rose significantly was during the black plague when around one-third of the European population died. There is nothing righteous about having loads of children who have to live on the margins of existence.

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Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

The passage below is wholly my own opinion based on my own thoughts and observations.

I personally believe that the US suffers from an affliction of American Exceptionalism. Somewhere along the way, probably after World War II, we got complacent. We became convinced that just by virtue of being American, we were somehow blessed with Divine Providence. While we've spent the past 5 or 6 decades looking in the mirror and thinking about how incredible we are, we got fat, lazy, and stupid.

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The natural by-product of this attitude is the "Ugly American" persona that we project across the globe. And we wonder why other countries particularly the third world kind hate us.

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Originally Posted by firstandten

The natural by-product of this attitude is the "Ugly American" persona that we project across the globe. And we wonder why other countries particularly the third world kind hate us.

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You don't even have to go far to experience the Ugly American persona. It's amazing how many Americans look at the U.S. Capitol and say, "Look, there's the White House!" Pull out a $20 bill, ass, and look at the picture on the back.

I think my sentiment is that for all of our talk about how great our nation is, it's all just hot-air puffery. Look at us. The way we dress. The food we eat. The way we expect tax cuts, rather than growing a business, to succeed. The SUVs we buy, and then bitch when gasoline dares to cost $4 a gallon. As a culture, we have no self-esteem. Our concerns don't extend beyond ourselves, our checking accounts, and our homeowners associations. Then we pray to Jesus to fix everything for us. Bullshit. A lack of self-respect amidst our self-promoting bloviation is EXACTLY why Europeans thumb their noses at us.

We sell ourselves way too short. We need to start expecting and demanding better out of each other.

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They grew sick and tired of the culture of selfishness and stupidity--the culture of guns, cheese doodles, and Busch Light. The culture where driving a car really really fast is considered a "sport".

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Come on you know that doesn't represent all Americans. It certainly doesn't represent me. You can live here and find other cultures, other lifestyles. It doesn't help improve anything to bail out and leave.

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Originally Posted by Pam

Come on you know that doesn't represent all Americans. It certainly doesn't represent me. You can live here and find other cultures, other lifestyles. It doesn't help improve anything to bail out and leave.

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No, but these are the people who get the attention. If you're a regular, hard-working, tax-paying stiff, there's no room for you in this country. But rent a God damned bus and drive up the East Coast spewing nonsense and you're a hero. Badmouth gays and foreigners, and people listen. Whine about taxes while transporting your personal arsenal wherever you go, and you're a freedom fighter.

Horseshit.

We chose our path. And every time we excuse one of the aforementioned idiots--let alone give them press coverage--we're allowing another nail to be hammered into our coffin. It's not enough to look the other way while the weak, lazy, fat, and stupid ruin our nation. That's my entire point. In a civilized society, these people are called out for being the morons that they are--not celebrated. Looking the other way and excusing this type of behavior is just another form of the complacency and sloth for which we Americans are so well known.

Now if you excuse me, I have grass to water and fertilize.

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And every time we excuse one of the aforementioned idiots--let alone give them press coverage--we're allowing another nail to be hammered into our coffin. It's not enough to look the other way while the weak, lazy, fat, and stupid ruin our nation. That's my entire point. In a civilized society, these people are called out for being the morons that they are--not celebrated. Looking the other way and excusing this type of behavior is just another form of the complacency and sloth for which we Americans are so well known.

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They do get called out, maybe not in the mainstream media but there a lot of alternatives to that.

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Originally Posted by Whitehouse

In theory, and if I was willing to pay for it I could go up to 240 Megabytes per second!!! But that would be totally ridiculous! That would be the same as downloading a full sized 4 gigabyte DVD in 20 seconds.

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Just think about how many Youtube videos you could share with us then.