Thoughs on When a Wall NOT a Wall?

A Wall is NOT considered as a Wall [[or fence) when it's erected around the White House, a Papal Residency, a Democrat Convention [[4 miles of it), Paul Ryan's House et al. [[these walls would not be necessary if we had a Wall at the Mexican border so we all had security).

Perhaps an example of a wall that really does the job is the one built 2000 years ago by the Chinese. To this day there's still no Mexicans, Central Americans or Muslims in China and the Chinese are not being destroyed from within by globalism, multiculturalism and diversity.

Then of course there is the very successful wall between Israel and Palestine which has reduced the number of attacks from Palestinians.

The Berlin Wall didn't work of course because it was built for political reasons like the one at the Dem. Con. to drive a wedge between people of the same nationality but different ideologies.

We need a Wall at the border and if the Mexicans won't pay for it we should bill it to the Democrats.

Thoughs On When A Wall NOT A Wall?

Via duck?

Impeccable logic [[sarcasm) that the reason that China has few Mexicans, Central Americans, and Muslims is the Great Wall.

And what about them damned Martians?

We must build a wall around planet Earth. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by coracle

A Wall is NOT considered as a Wall [[or fence) when it's erected around the White House, a Papal Residency, a Democrat Convention [[4 miles of it), Paul Ryan's House et al. [[these walls would not be necessary if we had a Wall at the Mexican border so we all had security).

Perhaps an example of a wall that really does the job is the one built 2000 years ago by the Chinese. To this day there's still no Mexicans, Central Americans or Muslims in China and the Chinese are not being destroyed from within by globalism, multiculturalism and diversity.

Then of course there is the very successful wall between Israel and Palestine which has reduced the number of attacks from Palestinians.

The Berlin Wall didn't work of course because it was built for political reasons like the one at the Dem. Con. to drive a wedge between people of the same nationality but different ideologies.

We need a Wall at the border and if the Mexicans won't pay for it we should bill it to the Democrats.

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Lots of Muslims in China [[At least 10x as many as here in the USA). Illegal immigration is also a growing concern in China with people coming from North Korea, Vietnam and elsewhere.

While I fully support a crackdown on illegal immigration here in the US, a wall is not the solution. The border is simply too long, too rugged and it's just not a realistic or affordable option.

Punish the Americans employing these illegal immigrants and we won't need to do anything else. Felony charges and imprisonment for the owners and managers of restaurants, farms, landscape companies, hotels and other businesses that are caught employing illegal workers. There would be a mad rush for the borders within weeks, and help wanted signs everywhere looking for legal workers. It would completely eliminate the need for minimum wage increases, bring millions off of public assistance and reduce housing costs for low wage Americans in many cities.

Good post, Johnnny5. Your last paragraph describes, in general, what the bipartisan compromise sought to accomplish. A secure e verify process for immigrants and employers to use. Unfortunately, compromise is a bad word these days, especially from the far right, and one party refused to support the result of a difficult process, negotiated in good faith.

I see a Mexican Newspaper El Manana has recommended Mexico builds a Wall along its southern border to keep Central Americans out of Mexico.

"Punish the Americans employing these illegal immigrants and we won't need to do anything else. Felony charges and imprisonment for the owners and managers of restaurants, farms, landscape companies, hotels and other businesses that are caught employing illegal workers."

I started a Company in the 1980's and at that time there was laws on the books to do just that and it worked well. They're probably still "in force" but like many other laws, being ignored. To reinforce them would be a great inexpensive solution. Just think of all the jobs it would free up for the poor people on Welfare!!!

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Originally Posted by coracle

A Wall is NOT considered as a Wall ...

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When it's a yellow tape line on the floor around a desk, with a blank spot for a door.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Lots of Muslims in China [[At least 10x as many as here in the USA). Illegal immigration is also a growing concern in China with people coming from North Korea, Vietnam and elsewhere.

While I fully support a crackdown on illegal immigration here in the US, a wall is not the solution. The border is simply too long, too rugged and it's just not a realistic or affordable option.

Punish the Americans employing these illegal immigrants and we won't need to do anything else. Felony charges and imprisonment for the owners and managers of restaurants, farms, landscape companies, hotels and other businesses that are caught employing illegal workers. There would be a mad rush for the borders within weeks, and help wanted signs everywhere looking for legal workers. It would completely eliminate the need for minimum wage increases, bring millions off of public assistance and reduce housing costs for low wage Americans in many cities.

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Millions of illegal workers and millions on public assistance,but when you hang a help wanted sign up ,98.9 % of the applicants are illegals.

You cannot force somebody to work that does not wish to,just as you cannot force a company to hire non performance workers just because.

Illeagle workers are hungry and will give a honest day's work for a fair pay.

I used to have quick lubes and my monthly worker turn over was 30,feel like working, show up,feel like working,be on time,feel like working,do not skip days and expect a paycheck on Friday.

Mexico immigration is simple,rape the women before sending them back and beat the crap out of or shoot the men,but yet we are racist for building a wall.

You can build a wall in the physiological aspect and build it as high as you want but most see building a wall in the physical sense of bricks and mortar,if they cannot see and touch it does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Richard

Millions of illegal workers and millions on public assistance,but when you hang a help wanted sign up ,98.9 % of the applicants are illegals.

You cannot force somebody to work that does not wish to,just as you cannot force a company to hire non performance workers just because.

Illeagle workers are hungry and will give a honest day's work for a fair pay.

I used to have quick lubes and my monthly worker turn over was 30,feel like working, show up,feel like working,be on time,feel like working,do not skip days and expect a paycheck on Friday.

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You're right. You can't force someone to work [[Or to work hard), you can only incentivize them to do so. Once physical needs are met [[Food, shelter, etc) the biggest incentive to work is higher pay. Many illegal immigrants work very hard because their income here in the US is many times what they could ever earn back at home. That 25 year old Mexican landscaper will work his tail off for $10 an hour and hardly complain. He'll do this because back in rural Mexico even if he could find work, he would be lucky to make $10 in an entire day. Send a 25 year old American to some far off hypothetical land where they are being paid $100+ per hour to cut grass and see how hard they work.

IMO hiring illegal immigrants is straight up cheating. It's cheating one's competitors that follow the law, it's cheating would be legal workers, and it's cheating the illegal employees by taking advantage of their immigration status by paying them less than what it would cost to acquire a legal worker willing to perform at the same level.

https://cruxnow.com/church/2016/02/1...a-walled-city/

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

You're right. You can't force someone to work [[Or to work hard), you can only incentivize them to do so. Once physical needs are met [[Food, shelter, etc) the biggest incentive to work is higher pay. Many illegal immigrants work very hard because their income here in the US is many times what they could ever earn back at home. That 25 year old Mexican landscaper will work his tail off for $10 an hour and hardly complain. He'll do this because back in rural Mexico even if he could find work, he would be lucky to make $10 in an entire day. Send a 25 year old American to some far off hypothetical land where they are being paid $100+ per hour to cut grass and see how hard they work.

IMO hiring illegal immigrants is straight up cheating. It's cheating one's competitors that follow the law, it's cheating would be legal workers, and it's cheating the illegal employees by taking advantage of their immigration status by paying them less than what it would cost to acquire a legal worker willing to perform at the same level.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

You're right. You can't force someone to work [[Or to work hard), you can only incentivize them to do so. Once physical needs are met [[Food, shelter, etc) the biggest incentive to work is higher pay. Many illegal immigrants work very hard because their income here in the US is many times what they could ever earn back at home. That 25 year old Mexican landscaper will work his tail off for $10 an hour and hardly complain. He'll do this because back in rural Mexico even if he could find work, he would be lucky to make $10 in an entire day. Send a 25 year old American to some far off hypothetical land where they are being paid $100+ per hour to cut grass and see how hard they work.

IMO hiring illegal immigrants is straight up cheating. It's cheating one's competitors that follow the law, it's cheating would be legal workers, and it's cheating the illegal employees by taking advantage of their immigration status by paying them less than what it would cost to acquire a legal worker willing to perform at the same level.

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Thing is he will work his tail off for $10 per hour because he has no other choice,he is living in a country and adsorbing the cost of living just like anybody else.Misconception of illegal able to get food stamps or public aid is not true without proof of residency and social security number.

He is working for $10 per hour because he is providing unskilled labor and being paid prevailing wage just like any other service related job and his other option would be to learn a skill and make himself more marketable.

It is not really based on I am here and I deserve x amount of dollars per hour because my living costs are x amount of dollars.

It is mom and pop small businesses that employ illegals because you pay them cash and you need to generate that cash off the books,but yet most mom and pop store owners are not millionaires and the cash goes back into the system in the form of utilities,rent,food,clothing etc.

It is tough when it comes to employing people no matter what the status is and there is really no rhyme or reason,offer a higher prevailing wage in an attempt to get a more reliable employee and yet they are few and far in-between.

Getting rid of illegals is not really the answer,it is the cause and effect of the system on both sides but they are what you can physically see.It is nice to believe that you could depot all of them and put all of the ones on public services to work but the reality is the jobs were there and they were not being filled because of the misconception of ones right to demand a certain wage but yet offer no marketable skills in return.

It goes back to education and training,fix that and the immigration problem will not be a problem because the only jobs that will be available will be the real jobs that nobody wants to do and at that they will become transitional jobs anyways.Like it was in the past.

Wage is based on marketable value of a service or product,pay a landscape laborer $25 per hour because that is what they deserve then see how many customers are retained when one charges $200 to cut the grass.How many people shop the cheapest price they can find no matter what they are looking for in goods and services.

Ask anybody working in the skilled trades what the ratio of customers willing to pay a fair days rate verses as cheap as they can get it even if it is less quality,my experience is 1 in 10.

So it is a two headed sword between employers and consumers and the solution needs to come from both sides and until that happens it is just a friendly discussion.

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Originally Posted by coracle

"Punish the Americans employing these illegal immigrants and we won't need to do anything else. Felony charges and imprisonment for the owners and managers of restaurants, farms, landscape companies, hotels and other businesses that are caught employing illegal workers."

I started a Company in the 1980's and at that time there was laws on the books to do just that and it worked well. They're probably still "in force" but like many other laws, being ignored. To reinforce them would be a great inexpensive solution. Just think of all the jobs it would free up for the poor people on Welfare!!!

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Yeah, but they'd actually have to pay Americans minimum wage and the owners would bitch that they were being ruined. Ruined!! I tell you. They want the migrants so they can pay them a dollar an hour or by the piece.

The Dems have built a wall round the Podiun at Philly. Must be to keep Bernies out [[or the police).

I was in favor of building a wall on the Canadian border to keep out the ruffian hockey players. But then it dawned on me that if Trump wins, and all the extremo-leftists say they're leaving for Canada, we'd best not build that sucker after all.

Hey....all in fun. But just a thought!

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

While I fully support a crackdown on illegal immigration here in the US, a wall is not the solution. The border is simply too long, too rugged and it's just not a realistic or affordable option.

Punish the Americans employing these illegal immigrants and we won't need to do anything else. Felony charges and imprisonment for the owners and managers of restaurants, farms, landscape companies, hotels and other businesses that are caught employing illegal workers. There would be a mad rush for the borders within weeks, and help wanted signs everywhere looking for legal workers. It would completely eliminate the need for minimum wage increases, bring millions off of public assistance and reduce housing costs for low wage Americans in many cities.

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Astute observations about ILLEGAL immigration. In addition, I would like to add that endless complaining that a wall, fence, or helicopters, US army etc. will solve this problem helps keep the very ignorant off the track completely while Billions of dollars can be made in the short term by employers that use some of the best workers who come here looking for better than 2nd and 3rd world labor rates while the rest of us pick up the tab for all the health care, the children's/spouse's health care, social services, education, law enforcement...an Endless list. As usual if a problem perpetually exists, look at who is making the big money off of the problem's existence.

1920s illegal Mexican labor built California,depression hit then it was we cannot find work because of the illegals so they did daily mass deportations.

When the economy is good nobody gives it a second thought,when times become slow it becomes the same situation.The same cycle throughout history and nothing changes because it cannot until the system is fixed,can fix an election but cannot even fix a immigration system.

How come Mexicans are bad but we are compassionate when it comes to refugees from other war torn countries?

We are also picking up the tab for Wal-mart so what is the difference?

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Originally Posted by Richard

1920s illegal Mexican labor built California,depression hit then it was we cannot find work because of the illegals so they did daily mass deportations.

When the economy is good nobody gives it a second thought,when times become slow it becomes the same situation.The same cycle throughout history and nothing changes because it cannot until the system is fixed,can fix an election but cannot even fix a immigration system.

How come Mexicans are bad but we are compassionate when it comes to refugees from other war torn countries?

We are also picking up the tab for Wal-mart so what is the difference?

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+5, That's going to be my quote of the week.

B/S, we're not too friendly to Syrian refugees either.

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Originally Posted by G-DDT

https://cruxnow.com/church/2016/02/1...a-walled-city/

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That's the shortest post by far I've ever seen by you, G.

You must have been sleep posting. :)

If one has some extra time to read this it kinda explains how the immigration and employment of with little repercussions and why.

It hopefully makes it clearer to some how it really works.

http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/ObamaTimeline_2016.pdf

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

+5, That's going to be my quote of the week.

B/S, we're not too friendly to Syrian refugees either.

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We being the public,not so friendly but that does not sway the gov setting them up quite nicely.

I think most Americans that are down and out,should sneak across to Syria and come back as a refugee they may have a better chance at getting ahead then as an Amercian born and bred.

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Originally Posted by Richard

We being the public,not so friendly but that does not sway the gov setting them up quite nicely.

I think most Americans that are down and out,should sneak across to Syria and come back as a refugee they may have a better chance at getting ahead then as an Amercian born and bred.

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Hmmmmm..... Not bad Richard, not a bad plan @ all. Sure beats eating Alpo because I have to buy my meds this month.