Henry Ford Hospital Expansion and Affiliated[?] Projects

A major article by the Free Press’ architectural reporter JC Riendl details the plans and tax abatement requests. It is exciting but a trifle eyebrow-raising.

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The request is muddied by the fact that the developments take place on lands held by the hospital which does not pay property taxes. So the $2.2B planned hospital expansion requests no breaks and land on which apartment properties will be built or converted does and will come back on the tax rolls.

Most of the total $296 million in requested tax breaks and tax captures would go toward development of three apartment buildings by a Pistons-related entity and billionaire Pistons owner Tom Gores, creating some controversy.

I had to get out Google maps to determine where all this is going on. I had assumed that it would all be adjacent to the hospital, most likely on the abundant and decrepit vacant land to the south of the W. Grand Blvd. -- which gives rise to the question mark in this thread's title.

Attachment 43034
Instead I was surprised to find it was a quarter mile away on the other side of the M10-Lodge expressway on far more desirable land immediately south of Gore’s Pistons training facility. That area will include one new medical facility, the MSU Medical Research Center, but otherwise it is all apartments and a parking tower.

I’m amused as to how and why this has become glommed onto a project that far away such that it is appearing as one package. The only thing unifying all of it as that Ford hospital owns the land.

I’m a supporter of new development in Detroit, and hope it goes through, yet I am wondering if the incentives, for the apartments at least, should be a bit less generous.

When The Boulevard 231 apartment complex was built from scratch north of this project on W. Grand Blvd., it cost just $60 million.

How is a rehab of an existing decent condition complex [former Burroughs/Unisys HQ] going to triple that cost to $190 million, while not even doubling the number of apartments [403]?? :confused:

Somehow this doesn't pass the smell test... :eek:

You have to consider square footage, not just units. One Ford Place is 600,000 square feet. Even factoring out 20% for common space, that's averaging around 1,200 square feet per unit. I think the average square foot in the Boulevard is 800 square feet or so.

^ Thanks for the details sirrealone!

I think that what makes that complex so interesting is that it went from an industrial Burrough's plant, to an office building, and now in its' 3rd life as residential.

Probably the large unit sizes are greatly due to the fact that this may be more like loft space, rather than specific built residential.

I notice that council tabled the project yesterday. There are some fuzzy numbers in the claimed benefits package offered by the developers. Councilperson Tate in particular raised questions.

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The developers have put a $604 million monetary value on their proposed package of 52 various concessions, gifts and spending commitments for the community, which they have touted as the biggest benefits package ever in Detroit. But critics at public hearings have contended the value is far less when excluding things that the developers would do anyway.

Tate noted how the biggest item in the benefits package - $310 million - is an estimate for future uncompensated care expenses to be shouldered by Henry Ford Health as a result of the new emergency room in the hospital expansion.

Because the ER would be brand new and over twice the size of the existing ER at Henry Ford Hospital, the nonprofit health system is anticipating $62 million more per year in uncompensated care expenses in the first five years of its operation, totaling $310 million.

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So, if you expand your ER room, you automatically expand the number of patients it receives?

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Originally Posted by Lowell

So, if you expand your ER room, you automatically expand the number of patients it receives?

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Regardless of whether you buy that, as Tate stated the hospital portion is going ahead anyway and community benefits should be specific additional benefits over and above what would be built without the tax breaks.

gifts and spending commitments for the community

When you require a developer to pay C amount of money in order to complete a project that is X amount of dollars,you have to factor in C in order to offset with creative financing.

So if I tell you,I am going to make these companies pay extra in order to improve the existing neighborhoods you would think I was a nice representative that cares about the city.

But I would also know full well that by requiring potential development to pay millions over what it would cost in community benefits it would make potential investors shy away and drive away development.

So in order to appease you,I have to create back doors into the system and provide funds without looking like I am providing funds.

As a taxpayer The only thing you are saving is the interest on the money that you would have had to borrow in order to invest and improve the surrounding neighborhoods.

With the incentives and tax captures you are still paying for the neighborhood commitments anyways you look at it,with the only pleasure of being able to say - yes we made the companies pay to improve the surrounding neighborhoods,because they are in it for profit they can afford it.

But they are not really,all of these little bits and pieces are just creative bookkeeping in order to fold the extra cost of neighborhood spending commitments.

Basically what you are doing is making investment pay up front to rebuild the community’s that surround the project,short term,and then reimbursing them for it long term.

It does get the surrounding neighborhoods rebuilt faster,but what is it doing for stability long term,because you are giving up the tax capture in the process that funds the future commitments so they do not become derelict again.

Our system is based on capitalism,the government is not,when the government gets involved and starts meddling with social experiments they always look nice in the beginning and seem to have good intentions,but historically they end up having devastating results,because the people implementing them are looking for quick short term results,where as the citizens are in it for a lifetime.

When they go bad it affects future generations for decades.

What Tate is referring to is exactly what people are asking for,health care for those who cannot afford it,or socialized medical,you pay for it anyway you look at it.

Places like Canada does not have free healthcare,the taxpayers pay for it.

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Originally Posted by Richard

gifts and spending commitments for the community

When you require a developer to pay C amount of money in order to complete a project that is X amount of dollars,you have to factor in C in order to offset with creative financing.

So if I tell you,I am going to make these companies pay extra in order to improve the existing neighborhoods you would think I was a nice representative that cares about the city.

But I would also know full well that by requiring potential development to pay millions over what it would cost in community benefits it would make potential investors shy away and drive away development.

So in order to appease you,I have to create back doors into the system and provide funds without looking like I am providing funds.

As a taxpayer The only thing you are saving is the interest on the money that you would have had to borrow in order to invest and improve the surrounding neighborhoods.

With the incentives and tax captures you are still paying for the neighborhood commitments anyways you look at it,with the only pleasure of being able to say - yes we made the companies pay to improve the surrounding neighborhoods,because they are in it for profit they can afford it.

But they are not really,all of these little bits and pieces are just creative bookkeeping in order to fold the extra cost of neighborhood spending commitments.

Basically what you are doing is making investment pay up front to rebuild the community’s that surround the project,short term,and then reimbursing them for it long term.

It does get the surrounding neighborhoods rebuilt faster,but what is it doing for stability long term,because you are giving up the tax capture in the process that funds the future commitments so they do not become derelict again.

Our system is based on capitalism,the government is not,when the government gets involved and starts meddling with social experiments they always look nice in the beginning and seem to have good intentions,but historically they end up having devastating results,because the people implementing them are looking for quick short term results,where as the citizens are in it for a lifetime.

When they go bad it affects future generations for decades.

What Tate is referring to is exactly what people are asking for,health care for those who cannot afford it,or socialized medical,you pay for it anyway you look at it.

Places like Canada does not have free healthcare,the taxpayers pay for it.

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Who ever said healthcare was free? It's insurance so that the costs are distributed more evenly throughout the population like any other gov't service accessible to everyone and chosen by virtually every country on the planet except one.

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Originally Posted by 401don

Who ever said healthcare was free? It's insurance so that the costs are distributed more evenly throughout the population like any other gov't service accessible to everyone and chosen by virtually every country on the planet except one.

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What do you think this is doing? Not sure where you are getting all of that from,the majority of the larger cities do provide health care for the poor that is taxpayer subsidized,so same concept.

It’s a hybrid system,the ones that have the biggest issue are those families that are in the middle,make to much to qualify for subsidies but yet bear the full cost of the insurance.

Even at that in the city i am in ,there is income based healthcare clinics,so nobody is without healthcare .

You say it’s insurance- that insurance does not just pop out of thin air and Canadian universal health care is not paid by every taxpayer equally,correct ?

So your healthcare system is not much different then ours,we just have the ability to receive care without limits,unlike Canada ,so who is that one country on the planet ?

You can call a Ford pinto a Cadillac,but at the end of the day it is still a Ford pinto.

Do not confuse our politics with the reality.

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Originally Posted by Richard

What do you think this is doing? Not sure where you are getting all of that from,the majority of the larger cities do provide health care for the poor that is taxpayer subsidized,so same concept.

It’s a hybrid system,the ones that have the biggest issue are those families that are in the middle,make to much to qualify for subsidies but yet bear the full cost of the insurance.

Even at that in the city i am in ,there is income based healthcare clinics,so nobody is without healthcare .

You say it’s insurance- that insurance does not just pop out of thin air and Canadian universal health care is not paid by every taxpayer equally,correct ?

So your healthcare system is not much different then ours,we just have the ability to receive care without limits,unlike Canada ,so who is that one country on the planet ?

You can call a Ford pinto a Cadillac,but at the end of the day it is still a Ford pinto.

Do not confuse our politics with the reality.

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Banging head against the wall while learning never to respond to your posts.

When talking about welfare for billionaires... this guy in Chicago makes Gores and the Ilitches almost seem frugal at the public trough... :eek:

Billionaire octogenarian apparently not embarrased to ask for $1B in taxpayer money [[msn.com)

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Originally Posted by 401don

Banging head against the wall while learning never to respond to your posts.

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If banging your head against the wall does not knock any sense into it,nothing I can say will help you.

You made a fase claim based on a preconceived notion,if you do not want to think beyond the established boundaries,that’s on you.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

When talking about welfare for billionaires... this guy in Chicago makes Gores and the Ilitches almost seem frugal at the public trough... :eek:

Billionaire octogenarian apparently not embarrased to ask for $1B in taxpayer money [[msn.com)

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Sports stadiums are weird like that,if they actually did the one in Detroit as proposed and created lively district around it would justify a return of taxpayer dollars.

That would be at least 2 large hubs with MCS and The stadium,but I do not think I have ever seen anybody actually do it.

They are busy when there is a game then crickets.They tried it where I am at but the voters said - pass on that one.

The use of incentives is always how things get done but lately and not just in Detroit it seems like they are really pushing the envelope,it still needs to be justified in the end.

hmm. We'll see how it goes.

separately from this project, I'm wondering if anything is "ever" going to happen to the Herman Keifer land that was sold several years back. I still remember [working there] in the years leading into the bankruptcy when it was finally shuttered and the city's health department services were spun off into a newly created private nonprofit group.

City Council approved the $231 million tax incentive for the project today...

Detroit Council approves $231.7M tax incentive for Henry Ford Health, Pistons development

https://s3-rd-prod.crainsdetroit.com...0At%20Play.png

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The Detroit City Council approved Tuesday a community benefits package for the planned $3 billion Henry Ford Health, Detroit Pistons, Michigan State University development in the city’s New Center neighborhood.

The incentives package is expected to give the developers $231.7 million in tax revenue reimbursement over the next 35 years.

The incentives will go toward several parts of the development, now called the Future of Health development, that include the planned HFH, MSU Research Center, the residential and commercial projects on the grounds of the current HFH headquarters in New Center as well as a six-story parking garage on the grounds. The total brownfield development is projected at $773 million.

HFH has not, at least yet, sought public tax incentives for its planned $2.5 billion hospital tower across West Grand Boulevard from its legacy hospital in the city. “Long-standing Michigan community stewards Henry Ford Health, Tom Gores and the Detroit Pistons, and Michigan State University have brought the Future of Health development forward as part of a historic partnership to turn Detroit’s New Center neighborhood into a vibrant, walkable community delivering the future of healthcare with an expanded state-of-the-art hospital and cutting-edge medical research combined with mixed-income residential, commercial, retail and recreational components,” the developers said in a joint statement emailed to Crain’s. “Today’s approvals lay the groundwork to execute the reimagination of our shared campus, creating meaningful economic opportunity and redefining what health and well-being means for the city of Detroit.”

The city council approved the package in a 6-3 vote with members Mary Waters, Angela Whitfield-Calloway and Gabriela Santiago-Ramirez voting against the package.

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https://www.crainsdetroit.com/health...ion-incentives

I'm wondering also. The new owner also owns my old school I taught at, Hutchins Middle School. Very historic school where the National lived in the classrooms and hallways in '68. Largest middle school ever built in the United States.

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

hmm. We'll see how it goes.

separately from this project, I'm wondering if anything is "ever" going to happen to the Herman Keifer land that was sold several years back. I still remember [working there] in the years leading into the bankruptcy when it was finally shuttered and the city's health department services were spun off into a newly created private nonprofit group.

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

I'm wondering if anything is "ever" going to happen to the Herman Keifer land that was sold several years back?

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You can read their take on things here:
https://www.hermankieferdetroit.com/

They've rehabbed some houses, but they haven't done much other than some cleanup with the main site, as far as I can tell. It's obviously a big project, or really, sequence of projects.

Residential redevelopment has already been moving in that direction, but I haven't seen much evidence of anything large scale or commercial. If it were on the east side of the freeway, or south of Grand Blvd., I'd bet it would be a good bit further along, but there's not much north of Henry Ford and west of the Lodge yet. I hope they can come up with a workable concept, but it's a tough financing environment right now, and it's always difficult in Detroit anyway.

I'm glad they're at least maintaining things there, better than the alternative of decay. I suspect momentum for the full redevelopment may pick up once the HFH expansion is complete.