Puerto Rico. The disaster that was a long time coming.

Just two weeks ago Puerto Rico was already well on its way to economic ruin. An economy in the toilet, an aging[[And fleeing) population and 100 billion in government debt that had already put it into a state of quasi-bankruptcy. Then came Maria.


Now what can be done? Obviously the immediate threats need to be addressed. People need food, water, housing and medical care, but other than necessities to what ends should the federal government go to help? With the a real possibility of a harsher climate and more frequent hurricanes expected in the future, should efforts even be made to rebuild all that was destroyed? Perhaps a sizable mass evacuation/relocation back to the mainland would be a better option? I know of one city with a massive number of empty lots. :cool:


**Edit. I would edit the title if I could. In no way did I intend to suggest that Puerto Rico somehow deserved this storm, or that it should have happened earlier.

They carry 74 billion in debt,3.5 million residents with 50% living under the poverty level.Do the math on what that is per person at 50% population.

Because they are not a state they cannot declare bankruptcy.

The power grid is stuck in the 1950s burning fuel oil and coal with a ongoing criminal investigation over a missing billion dollars.

In perspective it is kinda like Detroit's Kilpatrick days on a much larger scale.

A lot of their ills were created by US corporate interests and when the tax haven status was lifted the companies left.Then the bond markets moved in for the kill,it is always the little guy that suffers while others make billions.

Over 1 million PR live in the Orlando area alone,there were massive real estate subdivisions built and expanded and marketed exclusively to PR during the boom,most left on the island that would be coming stateside will go to where their family is for support and state assistance.

If one owns property in PR then you no longer have to pay property tax,so if you are low income and your house or property has been handed down it is pretty cheap to live with benefits.

It is nice not to have to pay property taxes but that is what pays for infrastructure etc.

New Orleans tried passing a 503 million dollar bill to FEMA to rebuild the electrical grid after Katrina and after FEMA spent 74 million to repair the water lines they were requesting an additional 2.6 billion to rebuild the entire water system,based on it was storm damaged.

It was rejected by FEMA under the grounds that the systems were in disrepair before the storm and FEMA was only allowed to spend according to actual storm damage.

Based on that and the previous condition it becomes questionable weather the island can ever recover,considering the total storms across the US and territories is already expected to surpass 100 billion dollars it becomes unlikely.

I mentioned in a different post,the island,is a mirror of Detroit's past.

It is a really beautiful island and it is a shame what has been done to it in the past and present.

Not sure if Detroit could serve as a relocation point in mass,it would be expensive and requiring services,most of the doctors,teachers,etc. already left and mostly elderly are left on the island that need care.

There is another whole aspect in the whole relocation part but probably now is not the time to go into it.

"A mountain of food, water and other vital supplies has arrived in Puerto Rico's main Port of San Juan. But a shortage of truckers and the island's devastated infrastructure are making it tough to move aid to where it's needed most, officials say." "At least 10,000 containers of supplies including food, water and medicine were sitting Thursday at the San Juan port." -CNN

Communications and infrastructure problems are blamed in this article for the failure to distribute federal aid.

Most of the containers shown in the pictures are not FEMA or aid related,they were stocked up before the storm in normal supply for Wal-Mart,home depot etc.

A lesson learned from Katrina is that you do not have those containers sitting there because of a storm surge picking them up and a 4000 pound container being pushed by a wall of water will level a house or building quick.

They should have been removed before the storm.

President Trump help declare PR a disaster before the storm which cleared the road for immediate assistance afterwards,the problem was the staging of supplies in a safe zone.

They did not know the path of the storm and could not send ships to sea until the storm was over,a ship traveling at 15 knots is equal roughly to 17 miles per hour,drive 1000 miles at 17 miles per hour and see how long it takes.

The Governor and Mayors of PR had a responsibility to their people and had time to take care of them through evacuation via air lifts,designated shelters,and stocked emergency supplies in every city in reinforced buildings.

They were well aware that it would take at least a week in order for ships to arrive from a already hard hit Florida and they did little to prepare.

Hospitals,critical government offices,emergency distribution centers located in each city all should have back up power supplies,it was FEMA contractors that flew over to start the generators at the hospitals,because they were never tested and nobody knew how to fire them up.

All of this, it is all President Trumps fault etc. is the Mayor covering her ass to deflect blame from herself,the reality of it is,if people are dieing she should be charged with manslaughter,she knows she dropped the ball that cost lives and only has herself to blame.

Her only out is to try and pass the blame and direct it away from herself and gain support.

^^^^while he's at a golf course dedicating the trophy to the victims of the hurricane. and that would help in what way?

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Originally Posted by Richard

Most of the containers shown in the pictures are not FEMA or aid related,they were stocked up before the storm in normal supply for Wal-Mart,home depot etc.

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I don't know what is in the containers shown in perhaps a stock photo but the CNN article does say "At least 10,000 containers of supplies -- including food, water and medicine -- were sitting Thursday at the San Juan port, said Jose Ayala, the Crowley shipping company's vice president in Puerto Rico.""Of the 3,000 containers that Crowley alone had sent to San Juan's port as of Wednesday, only 4% had been dispatched from there." Otherwise, I agree that Puerto Rico seems to have been locally mismanaged like New Orleans. You can bring water to a horse, but you can't make it drink.

One form of US relief that has been outstanding is that Puerto Rico, with an total population of 3.4M, has been able to transplant an additional 3M Puerto Ricans to the US in the past and PR hurricane refugees are presently flooding into Florida because, after all, they are US citizens. Imagine if PR had to feed all these extra people. Freedom of movement to the US has been a huge asset to PR. PR only works as well as it does because of this population pressure relief valve. Trump should count the new Puerto Rican hurricane refugees toward his refugee goals like Obama did with Haitian hurricane refugees. As US citizens, Puerto Ricans should be first in line for any available refugee benefits.

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Originally Posted by Maof

^^^^while he's at a golf course dedicating the trophy to the victims of the hurricane. and that would help in what way?

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What does it matter where he is at,Florida,Texas,California and others are going through the same thing and are being handled by FEMA and their competent governors.

The difference was that things could be staged in other states for a faster response.But when you have massive devastation it takes time.

It was no different here in Florida,there were some voicing their distastes about not having power for a couple of days while women were standing in line to collect the out of state utility workers laundry and bringing them lunch,you see them having dinner after a 18 hour day in 90 degree temps you buy them a beer.

FEMA is there to assist and not take control of local government,they do not have that power,they are guided by the local government.

It is not get out of the way,it is how can we help,if you do not have your ducks in a row in the beginning that is your fault,you cannot expect them to just air drop in with no direction,if they have to establish direction that takes time because the feds are a massive wheel that takes time to roll,it is a dream to think one can snap their fingers and they just appear.

I guess I am an asshole also because I have little patience when it comes to somebody trying to help while some feel it is their right to demand it and no matter what help is there it is never good enough.

There's a law on the books called the Jones Act that prohibits foreign-flagged ships from carrying goods between American ports. Trump waived it after Hurricanes Harvey and Irma to aid in the delivery of relief supplies there despite the fact that those occurred on the U.S. mainland and there was very little need to use foreign ships to ferry relief supplies to Texas and Florida.

For Puerto Rico, an island nation, there was a tremendous need to use foreign ships to ferry relief supplies from the United States. Trump waived the Jones Act requirement for Puerto Rico on September 28...eight days after the hurricane hit. Eight days. There was nothing stopping the Administration from waiving the Jones Act for Puerto Rico's recovery efforts prior to that, other than they just didn't feel like it.

But yeah, I guess it's unfair to criticize the Administration's response to Puerto Rico.

How about the fact that one of Trump's very first tweets about Puerto Rico after the hurricane was to shame them for their public debt? Like, that was necessary timing? That had to be brought up while people were still being rescued and didn't have food or water to drink? That was the appropriate time to bring that up?

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Originally Posted by aj3647

There's a law on the books called the Jones Act that prohibits foreign-flagged ships from carrying goods between American ports. Trump waived it after Hurricanes Harvey and Irma to aid in the delivery of relief supplies there despite the fact that those occurred on the U.S. mainland and there was very little need to use foreign ships to ferry relief supplies to Texas and Florida.

For Puerto Rico, an island nation, there was a tremendous need to use foreign ships to ferry relief supplies from the United States. Trump waived the Jones Act requirement for Puerto Rico on September 28...eight days after the hurricane hit. Eight days. There was nothing stopping the Administration from waiving the Jones Act for Puerto Rico's recovery efforts prior to that, other than they just didn't feel like it.

But yeah, I guess it's unfair to criticize the Administration's response to Puerto Rico.

How about the fact that one of Trump's very first tweets about Puerto Rico after the hurricane was to shame them for their public debt? Like, that was necessary timing? That had to be brought up while people were still being rescued and didn't have food or water to drink? That was the appropriate time to bring that up?

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The Jones Act really means nothing in this case,nobody could have gotten ships there faster then US mainland or more specific Florida.

The pressure to remove it was for future gains,this was just the opportunity to press it.

Who else is going to come to their aid ?

Bringing up the debt was appropriate.

Translated it was saying,look,you are $74 billion in debt that you do not have the money to repay and your island is based on corruption and graft,if that continues then you can expect ramifications.Forewarned.

On the humanitarian side,FEMA and the military use is not free,states operate on a cost share basis,PR does not have the 100s of millions it would have needed to get services back up and running.

So he waived the cost share so at least the people will be taken care of not based on money,because he knew that the funds were not available and would not be available in the future for repayment.

No president has ever done that for any state disaster.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/30/ex...-any-meetings/



The mayor of Guaynabo, Puerto Rico cast serious doubt Saturday on the claims made by San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz, who has repeatedly attacked President Trump and accused him of abandoning Puerto Rico in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria.

Mayor Perez told TheDC that the story Cruz is telling the media doesn’t mesh with what he has seen from the federal government.

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Originally Posted by Richard

Bringing up the debt was appropriate.

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The fact that you believe that says it all. You're the type of guy who goes to someone's funeral and gives an eulogy complaining about the money the deceased person owed you. Class act all the way!

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Originally Posted by aj3647

the fact that you believe that says it all. You're the type of guy who goes to someone's funeral and gives an eulogy complaining about the money the deceased person owed you. Class act all the way!

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.....omg!:D

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Originally Posted by aj3647

The fact that you believe that says it all. You're the type of guy who goes to someone's funeral and gives an eulogy complaining about the money the deceased person owed you. Class act all the way!

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You seem to be the kind of guy that borrows $10 and gets mad when expected to pay it back,or figures it is owed to you anyways,just because.

Did you help pay for Kilpatrics legal expenses,if not how come?

You have public officials appropriating funds for their personal gain so you are going to just hand them another couple of hundred million and not say something about the past.

Bernie Madoff wants you to invest $50k for a high return.Interested?

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Originally Posted by Richard

You seem to be the kind of guy that borrows $10 and gets mad when expected to pay it back,or figures it is owed to you anyways,just because.

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If someone owed me $10, and they got hit by a car, I probably wouldn't go down to the Emergency Room and say "hey, remember that $10 you owe me?" I probably would just be sympathetic to them in their moment of need, and then bring it up later when they're out of the hospital. You know, how a human being with empathy and a soul might behave in that situation.

So Brenie Madof scammed millions,you are well aware of it,he comes to you and wants to borrow $50,000 are you going to say,sure no problem or are you going to say,you just scammed millions are you going to do it again?

I know your response already,you would not be stupid enough to give him the money in the first place because you know in the past he screwed others.

It is your tax dollars that are in play,if you are not bothered then do not worry about it.

Big deal he chastised them while he was writing a check and telling them do not screw this up,it is every bodies tax dollars he is playing with,he should just blindly give checks out?