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Paywall Article but the title says it all:
"Packard Plant Owner Says He Plans To Sell, Abandon Plans For Former Property."
https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...on/8455931002/
I guess you can't fault the guy for trying but it's hard to believe a competent businessman could really have thought this was achievable without massive additional gov't and private investment.
That South American _______!!! Selling the Packard to some one who will not fix, but leave it as a Parthenon-like ruin. Good riddance to that guy! Thanks a heap for dissing Detroit.
Sorry folks. I'm not going to profane on my comments.
I hope Dan Gilbert comes to the rescue.
Deadline Detroit says Freep article reports lots of interest. A teardown for warehousing always seemed the logical choice and now there may actually be demand:
https://deadlinedetroit.com/articles...ard_plant_read[[[o_sell_massive_property
"Quixotic" is the word that seems fitting for this Spaniard's ambitions with the Packard Plant. It means "exceedingly idealistic; unrealistic and impractical" as in "a vast and perhaps quixotic project". It comes from the character Don Quixote in the novel of the same name by Miguel de Cervantes, the most famous work of Spanish literature, who was given to unrealistic schemes.
Anyone who explored the Packard ruins didn't have to be a genius to understand the fantasy of his ambition. I wish he could have succeeded but deep down knew he had no chance.
I’d be happy with new construction. It would be nice if something could be saved though.
I was under the impression from previous reports that a good amount of remediation and cleanup had been done done, at least in the buildings that surround the Blvd. Perhaps those could be saved even if the rest goes.
Nobody was supposed to bid on it at the auction,everybody else in the country knew that,he popped up out of no where.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
1st mistake buying it
2nd mistake, did zero due diligence and thought it was as advertised,3.5 million sqft of continuous property.
3rd mistake,thinking the city was going to allow him mixed use when they had just spent the time and money to classify that area industrial/heavy industrial.
4th mistake,jumping off and trying to acquire other properties in worse condition,mainly Kelvinator,which in turn got the city nervous.
It is not a continuous piece of property,nobody can demolish it because of that,you just cannot cut out sections of a building and leave the rest standing.
That property is comprised of over 100 parcels of land that were never consolidated from day one,so others own parcels of it,when you see a long section of the building,it looks like one building but it is not,you may have 50 foot of building that is on one parcel and owned by one person,then 10 foot of building that is one another one.
If you want to demolish it,you cannot unless everybody agrees to sign off,nobody is going to sign off because the last person can hold out and make bank,so nobody wants to be first.
Remember the administration building,the walkway that collapsed,he owned the admin building,the city owns the property at the other end of the walkway.
The walkway was considered community property,any repairs to it fell on all of the owners involved including the city,apparently nobody wanted to chip in.
The only way to make that place viable is to be nasty in acquiring it,it would have pissed people off and ventured into some really grey areas but it would have been a viable way to make it happen.
Not sure why people always say that it is a massive undertaking while actually not doing a cost analysis to base it on,depending on the use,it is not.
At least Building 22 [[Concord Ave. at I-94), and the other surviving Packard buildings west of the railroad, north of Grand Blvd. are still used by various companies. It would have been nice to see some of the main Grand Blvd. frontage reused. The City of Detroit Employment and Training Dept. occupied the administration building as late as summer 1987. It was a real gut punch when the "PACKARD" emblazoned entrance stonework was yanked out in 2008 and perhaps hauled to the Dayton Packard museum. Did that actually get installed there?
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a20446...headed-museum/
I am saddened, but it was a long shot. I envisioned this site could one day become like Toronto's Distillery District, but much bigger and better. Maybe it was just too big and too far gone. Could have been a real unique development.
I can find plenty of fault with him. He clearly had no intention of doing anything with it other than speculating.
He did have an office space for lease sign on the administration building, lol.
I think we all kinda knew this would be the outcome of this all. Thanks for cleaning up some of the trash on site Fernando. Now we can get it bulldozed and a tax paying manufacturing facility can get built there.
It would be nice to see the two buildings fronting the Blvd & the walkway restored, key word restored, not muddled. My ma was born almost spitting distance from the plant, & her dad worked there in it's earlier days. But, we know the odds of that happening is the same as a snowball in hell.
That's the best case. More likely is Chinese goods get moved in and out of the tax payer funded warehouses there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg19
So, who owns the Packard Plant now?
Does all of this mean that Fernando Palazuelo will have to offload the plant by finding another buyer/speculator to purchase it from him? Or is that deal like being asked to buy a ticket aboard the Titanic?
Maybe properties much closer to downtown Detroit are a better buy for speculators?
^ it has not been the Packard Plant in that sense the day Packard gave it up.
Like I posted,it is 100 different parcels owned by different people and the city.
Look at it as a block of houses on a city block where each house is owned by another person separately,that is how it stands.
You cannot demolish it just as you cannot demolish every house on a block without all the owners agreeing with it.
To break it down even further,this guy bought random parcels,then had to work a deal with the PO to pay even more for some more parcels that the city thought was included in the sale but was not,so two mortgages.
He never purchased the Packard Plant as a whole, He purchased parts of it,even worse non continuation parts.
That is why it is as it is,it is actually a very desirable property with unlimited potential,it’s the baggage that could fill a 65 mile long train of baggage cars that comes with it.
He is answering to investors already
How did I learn all of this ? Because I spent 6 months of due diligence and cost breakdown of what it would take to put it back into production capacity and a little over $60,000 out of pocket.
At the end I ate the $60k but no way I was going to use investor money and be left out on a hook like it is now.
To me anyways,the only way to do it now would be to put it into a production facility that would also incorporate the existing businesses so everybody makes money and the city gets a job creator,but it is a logistical nightmare because of the legalities of the separation of parcels.
I do not think the city would have a problem giving up their interests,I looked at it back then as taking the existing resources that were already established in the city and state,while taking into account the existing work force availability.
Highest and best use is as a production factory,it’s a pipe dream trying to make it mixed use as proposed when the current owner bought his part,there is plenty of land all across the city to do something like that from scratch at half the cost and in the proper zoning.
It is a really good place,it just seems to have a string of bad luck when it comes to people caring about it.
Richard, is the [[formerly named) Packard Plant too far from downtown Detroit? Is downtown the only worthwhile part of Detroit for investors and speculators, considering the bad rap that the Detroit suburbs endlessly get?
A few years ago, at the time Palazuelo bought his share/parcels of the Packard, I heard stories of restaurants, retail outlets and opera concerts at the Packard.
That seemed a bit unlikely to me, but I'm not being pessimistic - just realistic based on what I've seen from that area -- a bit like Burt/Fenkell and/or Brightmoor becoming a new popular hotspot.
Looking at Land Grid , the plant in indeed broken into small parcels, not as small as single lots for residential in the area, but certain buildings do extend over lot lines.
Unless I'm missing something though, every lot of the Packard Plant proper is owned by the same entity, Arte Express Detroit, with just a few still showing city ownership.
https://app.regrid.com/us/mi/wayne/d...terring#b=none
That whole area was zoned industrial,then after the bankruptcy the city did their updated future city zoning map,it was retained as light,medium and heavy industrial.Quote:
Originally Posted by night-timer
Because of its distance from the downtown core is probably why they kept it industrial over there,if anybody is looking at putting manufacturing or industrial use in the city it would be over there.
That is why it would have been virtually impossible to have it re-zoned mixed use,residential,clubs,houses etc.
The city has to look at not today but 10-20-30 years down the road and set aside things now,it’s a feasible project as it stands for industrial use.
You are referring to the blued part?Quote:
Originally Posted by K-slice
When I received the package from when it was for sale by the previous owner,that was 100 parcels,which even at that time did not include the entire complex.
Remember when it went to auction,the city had only forced sale on parts of it,the current owner then had to work a separate deal in order to complete the deal.
The administration building had the walkway going over Grand to the rest of the property,the current owner owns the administration building but not the parcels across the street,the city owns those,that is why the arch or walkway was allowed to fall,my theory anyways.
So then the city owns the parcels facing Grand,if you walk through those parcels,then the current owner owns the next one in.
You can never trust a GIS or city map,you can get a general idea but a survey always has to be done.
Some of those other parcels that were used as different shops back in the day are owned also by others.
My theory is,when the city held the auction,they retained some of the parcels which in turn broke the property up in order to maintain some control over the property.
Smart move on the cities part,they did not one person maintaining control over the majority of the property like last time Kinda like saying,start with this and show us that you are serious and after that we can give you the rest.
The downside of doing that for the purchaser is you would have to spend millions on the hope that the city would actually follow through,otherwise you screwed yourself.
That is why you do due diligence before buying a property,even more so off of the internet,because it leaves no surprises.
Each one of those parcels,still retains its original address.
When I was interested in it,I did not look at it as I have a use for this,I looked at,here is this property what is its highest and best use that serves the city and state.
You have to figure at that time,months before the bankruptcy,the city was in some of its darkest days with negative publicity across the country.
I did not do due diligence just on that property,I had to do it on the entire city and show investors that the value was there in the future.
So I had to not only sell the validity of the project but the city itself.
I was successful in the first round of funding,the price was 1.6 million at that time,so I was okayed for the purchase and stabilization,but I also had commitments for use for a percentage of the property that would have actually covered monthly expense and the taxes.
I based it at that time not dependent on taxpayer incentives.
Anyways,the moral of that is yes it is a feasible project,applying the KISS theory when it comes to its intended use as a factory,not as a mixed use residential etc.
IF they can get the cluster puck of a parcel division nightmare straightened out.
That is why different businesses were operating out of there,because each parcel has a separate address and legal description that defines that parcel,it was legal to sell random parcels of it.
Had Packard back in the day combined every lot into one large parcel,you could today say it is the Packard complex that covers over 1 mile,but even Packard did not buy it all at one time,they added more through the years.
We do not know the reasons behind all of that,but it is what it is today,which may have actually played a role in why it is still standing,Kinda sorta.
The irony in all of that though,at that time I had contacted the local power provider about covering that whole roof system with solar,they never responded back.
It would have been one of the largest solar arrays in the state,I figure now they would not be looking at it as a dud idea.