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I'm looking to buy a microphone for a teenager who wants to start a band. I have no idea what to look for. If it matters hes starting a RnR/punk band. I cant spend a whole lot and I have no idea what they run$.
If there's any advice out there for me Id appreciate it.
A teenager starting a punk band? I'd recommend the first thing you find that is affordable. Preferably old and dented in a few places, like the house mics at your work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
Shure mics are good, not TOO expensive, can't go wrong with them. There's an ad on Craigs List for a Sure Beta 58A for $99 -very good mic, reasonable price. In Oakland County.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/search...min&maxAsk=100
The seller says it's new, not sure if they really mean brand new or not. Musicians Friend has them for $159 new. Of course he'll also need a mic cord, mic stand, a PA to go through...
Yeah, don't waste your money on knock-offs...many of the Chinese-made copies have such a wide range of quality control and fragility they might very likely break it within the first few practices and it may never see any performances.
I don't care what the fellows at Guitar Center say, the Behringer and that other name I immediately forget do NOT compare fully with the Shure.
The Shure 58 is available in a number of ranges and qualities...but all forms are some of the most rugged road mics available. Think Roger Daltry swinging his thing around [[albeit protected by dozens of windings of gaffer's tape).
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/the_who_roge...30175421842996
The higher the price of the 58s, as you go towards the Beta version, gains higher quality sound...less sizzle of sibilance...more body...but for a rocker, especially a punker, the cheapest 58 possible would be best.
Then, teach him how the performance radically changes with the direction and distance from the mic face...THAT is something I'd teach every performer, as a sound tech, so I wouldn't have to be riding the gain in a vain attempt to keep them sounding ok...when they can learn how to always sound consistent.
Just checked their website, they have four versions of the famous 58 available.
PG=good [[cannot find price on this one, probably around $129 retail)
SM=better roughtly $159 retail, $99 used/ebay
SMxxa=slightly improved [[cannot find price on this either, probably around $199 retail)
SMxxa Beta=best $259 retail, $199 used/ebay
xx=model number, in this case the 58, but they make 57s and others that fit the same nomenclature.
[[Django, just realized this was for you...I got your text last week, sorry I didn't respond, will talk with you within a few days)
EV664--you can drive nails into a 2X4 with them, then plug them in and they WILL work, and sound good enough for punk music.
Lots of good advice here, but none better than this kernel of truth from Gannon:
"...Then, teach him how the performance radically changes with the direction and distance from the mic face..."
This should be posted at every stage and venue.
Shure 55SH... classic look, great performance, durable. They run about $165 to $200 new.
Thanks, Bobl, perhaps we can make a nice graphic to place on the stage floor at the center...or a quick mantra "Mic FACE" or "Make Love to Your Mic" or some shit...to get the point across.
Packman, I forgot about EV, and they at least used to be a Michigan concern, too, out in K'zoo.
I'm about due a microphone survey soon...who wants to play along? We can bring our best and do a shoot-off in a controlled space. The last one I did with calibrated in-ear headphones, simply trying to find the one that captured sound with the least coloration...since I really hate any form of processing or equalization if I can help it. Don't get me started on compression...and whatever they call that fucked-up perfect pitch robo-singer machine.
I didn't have many to choose from and a relatively limited budget, but ended up with the 58Beta...that was the main mic at that 1923 Coffeehouse Open Mic with Audra Kubat that kept my Thursdays interesting last year...and got me resounding kudos from everyone who dropped by. One coffee distributor actually told me it was the best open mic he'd ever witnessed, and he said he'd been to a few.
I prefer to record them all, too, which is why I put so much effort into the equipment...although I'm still struggling with a cheapo Behringer 10-2 mixer and the house brand powered midfield monitors from Guitar Center...but they were all plugged into an amazing power conditioner that was worth more than EVERYTHING else combined!
Now that I think about it...from Linn's 'loss of information' theory on proper vinyl groove extraction...all the mic STANDS I've ever encountered were wobbly, the sound quality would have to take a huge jump up if the microphone were on a more stable platform. Anyone ever find an improved microphone stand?
I ended up using those cheap booms, but not sideways...standing straight in front of the performers...stole the idea from whomever was doing sound for Don Was' first SuperSession at the Concert of Colors...once I saw the way they did it, it just made sense. Let the stand's strength be in the same vector as the movement of the diaphragm.
Next tweak? See if filling the tubes with silicone dampens feedback and footballs from wobbly stage surfaces. That one is a gimmee, too.
Oh, to have my own venue to experiment in...that is ON THE WAY! Looking at a building that has been used for five years as a recording studio...and will start up the same Friday night open houses I put on over at the loft behind Sala Thai.
THOSE recordings all turned out stellar...from my maniacal musician friends all sitting around letting their hair down...heaven for this sound guy and musician wanna-be.
Cheers!
An old friend from Livonia who has made quite a name for himself out in NYC is in town for a few days...I'm trying to get together with him and his new woman before they leave...but he is the recording engineer extraordinaire...and protege of the amazing Bob Ludwig.
He's growing into the position to fill Bob's shoes when he retires, actually, which would place him in the top-tier of Mastering Engineers...so I'll be asking him for mic advice if I remember.
I've still not been able to test out his technique for kick drum capture...which he's become quite famous for...of all his clients I can only remember the B-52s [[after the younger brother unfortunately passed)...but when I compared recordings of drums since, I realized he is onto something.
It is SO good to know a golden-ear willing to share their knowledge...and he owes me one since I taught HIM about absolute polarity back in my Stereophile days. Ludwig noticed that all his tracks were correct the next time he walked in 24 to be mixed down...which cemented our friendship.
Good to have my passion back for this stuff...amazing what the past few years of depression did to all that.
So Gannon, do you play in a band locally? I'm guessing you do, or did at some point. I play guitar/sing in a local acoustic classic rock cover band. Django, sorry to 'hijack' your thread'! It's funny, I've been using the same mic for over 12 years and can't tell you for sure what brand it is! I think it's a Behringer - all black, pretty banged up from a spill or two. Bought it when I joined my first band [[got a late start in life on the band thing). It has the occasional problem with S's and such but other than that is a good mic.
Roger that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobl
I've never been a singer -- NOBODY would want to hear that -- but I spent more than 20 years in radio.
A wise program director once taught me that you could "play" a microphone in the same way you might play an instrument, especially a wind instrument. Depending on how much you push your voice and where you are in relation to the microphone, both in proximity and direction, you can change the sound and presence of your voice. With most mics, working closer accentuates the lower part of your register. Work too close and you risk "popping" the plosive sounds, like "p" and "b."
I was at a jam session earlier this week that I thought was to include only blues players. But there were 2 bands around that were all middle-school kids.
One of the bands had a singing drummer, who looked and sounded to be about 12. He had a bad habit of turning away from the mic toward the end of each phrase, making the last couple of words inaudible to the folks in the audience. Me needs to improve his mic technique.
SMRJim,
I'm more interested in supporting those drawn on stage than being there myself.
I can pick a guitar, and apparently have a natural knack for syncopation in rhythm...I thought the sweet and amazingly talented Elizabeth Butters from Boston gave herself whiplash when she heard me in the crowd at Lager one night...then she had the most beautiful things to say later.
Buy I'm the hifi guy...and can tweak pretty much anything to better performance...I've made quite a career out of simply adjusting stereo and video systems for folks.
Now it is time to point that gift at music and video CAPTURE, so my musical friends can all get to the next level. I'd like to consult with the venues as well, because nearly all of them have problems enough to chase me from the room, usually. Acoustics are an art, which I'm luckily a natural at.
Great story, Vic, and early in his performance life is the best time to address this...since the drummer has a physical 'tick' that he probably doesn't even notice. He needs some video and verbal feedback...AFTER the emotion of the gig wanes!
Cheers...
Dont worry about hijacking SMRJim. I referred the future singer to this site/thread and any advice would be welcome.
Shure SM58. Classic, battle tested, trusted by musicians, roadies, and engineers for years.
I will also echo the advice given by Gannon and Vic about proper mic techniques. Every singer should learn how to handle a mic properly, because it makes a huge difference in sound quality.
As Gannon pointed out, the performance of the mic radically changes with the direction and distance from the mic face.
As a microphone gets further away from the mouth of the singer, the effect of the microphone rejection pattern will become more evident. As a microphone gets closer to the mouth of the singer, the microphone rejection pattern will have much less effect, but the plosive sounds will start causing that awful popping popping noise.
Over the course of my years as an audio engineer and amateur singer, I have learned a simple mic handling technique which has served me well...
When the microphone is a foot or more away from the mouth of the singer, it should be pointed straight at the mouth. At this distance, there should be no problem with the popping sounds, but the pickup of the singer's voice can be significantly reduced if the mic is held at an angle. When the microphone is closer to the mouth of the singer, say 4-6 inches away, some popping may start to happen. This can be minimized or eliminated by holding the mic at a slight angle [[20 or 30 degrees) away from the mouth of the singer. When the mic is around 2 inches away from the mouth, popping will be more likely and more pronounced, and a 45 degree mic angle should solve the problem. In situations where the singer is holding the mic right up to the lips, any direct plosive sounds will result in mic popping, and this can be eliminated by holding the mic at a 90 degree angle, and singing over the top of the mic head.
Of course, these are are just general suggestions, and the results will vary depending on the singer and the microphone.
Hope this helps!
Can't go wrong with this, and only $14.88
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYEXBTlWf_4