Detroit is the Motor City

[East Detroit]

Sorry hipsters...

Detroit 3 quality is now better on average than all the rest.

Ford quality is highest amongst non-luxury brands.

This time its JD Power reporting it.

Where's all the posts and celebrations on "DetroitYES"???

http://www.freep.com/article/2010061...rge-in-quality

[bailey]

Domestic brands, as a group, closed the quality gap with foreign brands for the first time since J.D. Power and Associates began tracking the initial quality of new vehicles 24 years ago.

It's going to take more than one good year to reverse a generation of problems. But yes, this is very good news. Further good news was GM's announcement it was not going to have its customary summer shutdown because demand for it's products is outstripping supply.

[kryptonite]

Originally Posted by bailey

It's going to take more than one good year to reverse a generation of problems. But yes, this is very good news. Further good news was GM's announcement it was not going to have its customary summer shutdown because demand for it's products is outstripping supply.

The quality gap has been narrowing over a period of many years, this is not a 'one good year' phenomenon.

[Detroitnerd]

Oh. Well, congratulations, Detroit. But let's remember it was the humbling experience of being laid low by competition that produced these results. Don't do too much musclebound chest-thumping or laurel-sitting, now, OK?

[drjeff]

While I am happy for this, how many autoworkers are still employed within the city limits at this point?

[Buy American]

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
Finally some good news.

[Onthe405]

This is just one consumer's perspective, but I've always felt JD Power is a puff survey, developed by & for the automotive industry, primarily for press and a marketing tool for the "winners" and little else. Here's why:

"this year's study, which measured 228 potential problems during the first three months of ownership"

Looking at the big picture, this is of minimal value to me. The car is still under warranty. Granted, "initial quality" is one indicator of overall quality & future performance, but certainly not comprehensive enough to assign it any substantial credence. Rate the reliability of the model & what the average overall maintenance cost is over the course of 5 years---then I might be interested in the survey. I understand this isn't really possible, since the models are constantly under redesign. Consequently, a reliable model-by-model long term consumer survey is neither practical nor available.

I'm sure most, or all, of the "runaway" Toyota owners had few or no problems with their cars within the first 3 months, and responded glowingly to the survey, as did the automotive press---that is until the long-term design flaws and cover-up were revealed. I purchased a Fridgidaire refrigerator and it worked fine for the first 5 years. For the past 3 years, it has required a service call once a year. Anectdotal evidence from friends revealed similar problems with thier products. IMO, 8 years is an extraordinarily short life for a refrigerator. I would consider that a very poor product, and would never purchase another one, even though the "inital quality" was just fine.

[mpf]

Well, i "ponied up" and bought a new mustang last thur.
First new car in 30 (!) years. Scary cost, don't like car payments.
Keeps the manufacturing base ALIVE, a big reason for me...
(tool+die maker)

[Gistok]

Originally Posted by bailey

It's going to take more than one good year to reverse a generation of problems. But yes, this is very good news. Further good news was GM's announcement it was not going to have its customary summer shutdown because demand for it's products is outstripping supply.

Sadly my sister, who has mobility health issues, went looking for a new car for over a week with my brother-in-law... and came away stunned at what was (not) available for immediate purchase (her old mini-van was kaput).

So for the first time in their over 20 years of marriage, they had to buy a Japanese car, since they needed it very quicklly.

[Retroit]

Onthe405, you are right on the money! A car's quality can't be adequately measured as it's rolling off the assembly line; one has to take a more comprehensive look over the lifetime of the vehicle.

[DecoJim]

While the JD Power survey is only a partial measure of quality it should not be dismissed completely. I recall in the bad old days that articles were published with comparisons between the fit and finish of Japanese cars and how they were superior to that of the domestic brands. For example they would report that the trim on the front and rear doors would be off by 1/8 inch on the GM car but line up perfectly on the Toyota. Magazines like Car and Driver for the most part also report only initial impressions of cars in their test drives (their occasional "long-term" test in those days was 1 year). These articles probably influenced some car buyers.

I have owned four cars so far: 2 Fords and 2 Chryslers (prior to the Diamler take-over and subsequent divestiture). I only had one major problem with any of them: a head gasket failure on a Neon at 90,000 miles - once it was fixed I got almost 100,000 more miles on it before I donated what was left of the car to Purple Heart.

[EastsideAl]

I've always purchased "American" cars, but how many of these purportedly wonderful vehicles are still built around here? Or built in the U.S. at all?

[DetroitHabitater]

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

I've always purchased "American" cars, but how many of these purportedly wonderful vehicles are still built around here? Or built in the U.S. at all?

Where are all the american cars designed, marketed and engineered? Right Here, that is where.

Where do the profits go?

[pffft]

Good grief Al, do you live on the East Side of L.A., or what?

[bailey]

Originally Posted by DetroitHabitater

Where are all the american cars designed, marketed and engineered? Right Here, that is where.

Where do the profits go?

Marketed? Well, lets see, BBDO just lost Chrysler. Campell-Ewald just lost Chevy after 100+ years to a French company....which also runs its Buick and GMC stuff. Cadillac dumped it's Boston ad agency for a Minneapolis one.

JWT does Ford still...so we have that going for us.

Designed? engineered? like the Ford Fiesta ? Buick LaCrosse? you mean how Saturn used honda built v-6 engines manufactured in ohio...and before that designed and built by GM europe? how about the mexican built Focus or the Australian GTO? '10 buick regal is a rebadged Opel....as was the Saturn Astra.

if it truly is "all about the profits" with you, they maybe we should advocate off shoring every bit of the manufacturing and design process because of the enormous cost savings that would bring to the "domestic" 2.5... woo hooo...profits baby!

[DecoJim]

There seems to be two often expressed points of view:

1. Buy America to support the local economy. Some of these people think of the auto industry in terms of the vertically integrated system used by Henry Ford at the Rouge Plant many decades ago. They ignore the increasing internationalization of the auto industry. There are some Hondas that have more North American content than some "domestic" models.

2. Since the domestic auto assembly plants use some imported parts, it no longer matters what brand or model you purchase. These people ignore differences that can have a significant impact on the local economy. If you buy an "import" it may actually be imported or it may be assembled in a nearby state.

If you want to help the local economy, it is possible to find out where the car model you want to purchase is assembled and what the approximate North American content is. I try to buy cars that were assembled in the Midwest but that is just my own approach.

[EastsideAl]

Originally Posted by pffft

Good grief Al, do you live on the East Side of L.A., or what?

Right here baby, and where once most of my relatives and neighbors worked in auto factories or in other auto-related jobs now almost none do. Most of those jobs have been shipped elsewhere by our 'American' auto companies (or have simply disappeared), while many of those 'foreign' auto companies oh-so-hated by some people around here build plenty of cars in the U.S. and employ lots of American workers.

[fryar]

I'll say this much: The City of Detroit can thank its lucky stars that GM not only hasn't abandoned it, but that GM in fact invested bucketloads of money in overhauling Riverwalk, as well as whatever else they may be sponsoring. So buy GM, specifically, I suppose.

[mpf]

Originally Posted by DecoJim

T There are some Hondas that have more North American content than some "domestic" models.

I am no expert on just 'how' this "domestic content" issue is tallied up, but I have a strong feeling that there is a lot of subterfuge going on with certain makers. Our Shop, for example, made a broach ( metal-cutting tool) for nissan steering columms. It produces the splines for male-female fitment. Does this mean that the whole steering assm. is US made? Nope, the components WERE made in japan, by doing a tiny portion here, they say "domestic"
We bought a new japanese machine tool ,a grinder....stated as Made in the US! Found out later, only the spindle was made here!! That allows these guys to import the other 99% of the product, finish it here, and make the declaration.
Had a friend declare subaru, in Indiana, is the "greenest' auto plant anywhere...Grrrrr, all they do is assemble their japanese parts there, that is not manufacturing!!

[DetroitDad]

Originally Posted by Gistok

Sadly my sister, who has mobility health issues, went looking for a new car for over a week with my brother-in-law... and came away stunned at what was (not) available for immediate purchase (her old mini-van was kaput).

So for the first time in their over 20 years of marriage, they had to buy a Japanese car, since they needed it very quicklly.

What!? She didn't just suck it up and buy American anyway!?

Just because the big three can't/won't give you what you want, can't/won't give you what you need, can't/won't give you any real track record for dependability, and can't/won't give you good customer service really is supposed to be irrelevant when half to all of your friends and relatives are directly or indirectly dependent on them. What you drive, drives America!

[DetroitDad]

Originally Posted by fryar

I'll say this much: The City of Detroit can thank its lucky stars that GM not only hasn't abandoned it, but that GM in fact invested bucketloads of money in overhauling Riverwalk, as well as whatever else they may be sponsoring. So buy GM, specifically, I suppose.

Thank you for that, GM...

...But, those days of looking to GM and the big three are gone.

At the same time, I remember growing up that GM used to encourage taking a sledge hammer to foreign cars at their company picnics, and foreign cars used to get vandalized all over the state, at one point. That was all after they actively had campaigns to make bad cars so that American's would be forced to buy more parts, and buy more cars.

Yet, it seems that American's being brave and buying foreign is what lit the fire under the big three's behinds.

What you drive really does drive America, indeed!