Lafayette Building's top two floors subsiding?

**Detroitnerd** · July-31-09, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

Or maybe if we had demonstrated to one of our largest corporate citizens that its needs outweighed the need to keep an abandoned building and let that corporation build where it wanted. That corporation would have made a bigger investment into its corporate headquarters. Possibly, a large enough investment that it wouldn't have moved. But hey, we still have Ford Auditorium, just sitting there.

So you're saying that if the auditorium had been razed [[who would have paid for this?) and the city had OK'd Comerica's plan to build a headquarters on the riverfront, it would have stayed? There are a few problems with the scenario, though:

1) There's no way to say that smoothing the way for Comerica would have kept it here. In fact, I've seen some studies that show that no matter how well a municipality treats a company [[over and above the baseline of providing services, etc.), they'll still leave if they feel it's more profitable to be somewhere else. We can call corporations "corporate citizens" all we want, but they're self-interested, publicly unaccountable and don't necessarily have any long-term committment based on sweetheart deals.

2) In general, we in Detroit have done everything we could for our companies here. Want to get rid of this green space for a factory? Go for it. Want us to reroute transit? Done. Want to build out over the street or have us wipe away the old street grid? Done. Want tax abatement? Done. Well, what has that gotten us? I'm not saying I'm a fan of some of the emotional, stubborn, divisive antics on City Council [[please don't lump me in with them), but that sort of cozy do-anything-for-you attitude toward our companies has allowed them to be lazy, sluggish, defiant, destructive and, ultimately, to leave when they're done.

3) If we'd had a big corporate campus on the riverfront, that would certainly have been in the way of the Detroit Riverwalk. It's 20 years later, and one sensible move has been to free up our shoreline for pleasure-seekers. In that sense, I guess I'm kind of glad that there's not a huge presence there to be an obstacle to the new plan.

Anyway, to return to whether the Ford should have been demo'd, it's obvious that not every building will have a place in the future, but it's a lot easier to repurpose an office tower than it is to repurpose an auditorium.

**kraig** · July-31-09, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

So you're saying that if the auditorium had been razed [[who would have paid for this?) and the city had OK'd Comerica's plan to build a headquarters on the riverfront, it would have stayed? There are a few problems with the scenario, though:

1) There's no way to say that smoothing the way for Comerica would have kept it here. In fact, I've seen some studies that show that no matter how well a municipality treats a company [[over and above the baseline of providing services, etc.), they'll still leave if they feel it's more profitable to be somewhere else. We can call corporations "corporate citizens" all we want, but they're self-interested, publicly unaccountable and don't necessarily have any long-term committment based on sweetheart deals.

2) In general, we in Detroit have done everything we could for our companies here. Want to get rid of this green space for a factory? Go for it. Want us to reroute transit? Done. Want to build out over the street or have us wipe away the old street grid? Done. Want tax abatement? Done. Well, what has that gotten us? I'm not saying I'm a fan of some of the emotional, stubborn, divisive antics on City Council [[please don't lump me in with them), but that sort of cozy do-anything-for-you attitude toward our companies has allowed them to be lazy, sluggish, defiant, destructive and, ultimately, to leave when they're done.

3) If we'd had a big corporate campus on the riverfront, that would certainly have been in the way of the Detroit Riverwalk. It's 20 years later, and one sensible move has been to free up our shoreline for pleasure-seekers. In that sense, I guess I'm kind of glad that there's not a huge presence there to be an obstacle to the new plan.

Anyway, to return to whether the Ford should have been demo'd, it's obvious that not every building will have a place in the future, but it's a lot easier to repurpose an office tower than it is to repurpose an auditorium.

The plans for the Riverwalk had been in place and dormant for decades. It was the corporate citizenry of General Motors, with its big corporate campus on the riverfront, and Detroit Renaissance that finally got the ball rolling. How dare they?

**Detroitnerd** · July-31-09, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

The plans for the Riverwalk had been in place and dormant for decades. It was the corporate citizenry of General Motors, with its big corporate campus on the riverfront, and Detroit Renaissance that finally got the ball rolling. How dare they?

Well, yeah, once they finally got somebody with a fairly decent understanding of design to head up the real estate division. That guy Cullen was pretty sharp, and not above drinking in the neighborhood. I ran into him once at Beaubien Street and it was a pleasure.

Why are you so darn confrontational, kraig? You seem to think you have me all figured out or something.

Retroit · July-31-09, 03:29 PM

You all need a Beer Summit!

Obama

Biden

Gates

TheCop

**Detroitnerd** · July-31-09, 03:31 PM

Retroit: Finally, something we can all agree on!

**kraig** · July-31-09, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Well, yeah, once they finally got somebody with a fairly decent understanding of design to head up the real estate division. That guy Cullen was pretty sharp, and not above drinking in the neighborhood. I ran into him once at Beaubien Street and it was a pleasure.

Why are you so darn confrontational, kraig? You seem to think you have me all figured out or something.

I'm just going with the flow. I've noticed that there are a lot of people that can dish it out, but can't take it. Oh well.

PQZ · August-04-09, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

The plans for the Riverwalk had been in place and dormant for decades. It was the corporate citizenry of General Motors, with its big corporate campus on the riverfront, and Detroit Renaissance that finally got the ball rolling. How dare they?

Aaaaaaaand the only reason it actually got off the ground is that the casinos gifted the land that had been condemend for them - so the City got the land for free - and made a contribution of $50 million towards the Riverwalk.

For all the sturm und drang about how nice the east Riverfront area could have been until the big bad casinos wrecked it - the only reason you have any activity over there is precisely because of the casinos.

**kraig** · August-04-09, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by PQZ

Aaaaaaaand the only reason it actually got off the ground is that the casinos gifted the land that had been condemend for them - so the City got the land for free - and made a contribution of $50 million towards the Riverwalk.

For all the sturm und drang about how nice the east Riverfront area could have been until the big bad casinos wrecked it - the only reason you have any activity over there is precisely because of the casinos.

Thank you. I'm glad that there are people like you, Huggybear and Bill Shea on this site that have a good understanding of business.

**ghettopalmetto** · August-04-09, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

Thank you. I'm glad that there are people like you, Huggybear and Bill Shea on this site that have a good understanding of business.

Or, they just tell you exactly what you want to hear, since you've never met [[or made) a preconceived notion you didn't like.

I think the term you're looking for is "sycophant". That's not to say that their opinions are invalid. It's just that your cheerleading, for shit you know nothing about, is completely obnoxious.

PQZ · August-04-09, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Or, they just tell you exactly what you want to hear, since you've never met [[or made) a preconceived notion you didn't like.

I think the term you're looking for is "sycophant". That's not to say that their opinions are invalid. It's just that your cheerleading, for shit you know nothing about, is completely obnoxious.

....sez the man who argues about local conditions of which he admittedly knows nothing...

The greasers over at the soda shop want to know if the pee-pee stains ever came out of the khakis.

**Novine** · August-04-09, 06:51 PM

"For all the sturm und drang about how nice the east Riverfront area could have been until the big bad casinos wrecked it - the only reason you have any activity over there is precisely because of the casinos."

More spin. Ever hear of Tri-Centennial State Park? The State has put millions into the Riverfront and was first in with money.

"And the question wasn't about whether to use the $1.4 million for demo, it was what program to cut to fund the addional $2.6 - $4.0 million to adequately and securely mothball the Lafayette."

The question was about the $1.4 million as it speaks to how the DDA spends its money. Still waiting on budget info. We'll see if the DDA can produce any details. Maybe I should have said I was a demo. contractor.

**ghettopalmetto** · August-05-09, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by PQZ

....sez the man who argues about local conditions of which he admittedly knows nothing...

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that buildings performed and behaved differently based on geographic location.

**kraig** · August-04-09, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Or, they just tell you exactly what you want to hear, since you've never met [[or made) a preconceived notion you didn't like.

I think the term you're looking for is "sycophant". That's not to say that their opinions are invalid. It's just that your cheerleading, for shit you know nothing about, is completely obnoxious.

Calm down Peaches, I did give you credit for davewindsor. I noticed you didn't jump on complaining about that.

I've even agreed with some of the things that you've said about engineering. But let's face it, once the conversation enters the business realm you begin to meltdown. Every single time. Trust me, I have a lot of respect for those that don't agree with me most of the time. Andy Linn and DetroitPlanner come to mind. The world would be a very boring place if everyone agreed with me. As long as someone has something worthwhile to say, I'm willing to acknowledge that and give them credit for it. Even you. When it comes to engineering you've shown that you know a little something. But like I've said, you're sense of business is extremely lacking. Instead of getting mad at me you may want to enroll in a couple of classes. Hell, if you really want to do us all a favor, take Novine and davewindsor with you.