Future of Lakeside Mall

**poobert** · March-07-12, 12:37 PM

What is interesting is that everyone here, in varying degrees and for varying reasons, seems to detest Hall Road. I think this is very telling. The M-59 corridor has to be just about the worst planning ever - exurban, big boxes, all lined down miles and miles of a high speed freeway. No sidewalks, no walkability from the residential, which are all likewise big box subdivisions.
I mean, who here thinks that is a good idea? How many people outside of the current generation of people already living there will want to live in such a place when those people move on, retire, or die? Especially since most of those came from the relative auto boom years of the 1990's. The auto companies are doing well but will never employ here at 1999 levels again. When those people retire there will be no jobs outside of Best Buy and the like, the vast majority of which you can't afford to live on.
The vulgar ugliness and impracticality of M-59 are almost as bad as the fact that there were people STUPID ENOUGH who allowed such poor development to happen in the first place, nay, encouraged it. Plenty of reasons to leave Metro Detroit.

**Gistok** · March-07-12, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

What is interesting is that everyone here, in varying degrees and for varying reasons, seems to detest Hall Road. I think this is very telling. The M-59 corridor has to be just about the worst planning ever - exurban, big boxes, all lined down miles and miles of a high speed freeway. No sidewalks, no walkability from the residential, which are all likewise big box subdivisions.
I mean, who here thinks that is a good idea? How many people outside of the current generation of people already living there will want to live in such a place when those people move on, retire, or die? Especially since most of those came from the relative auto boom years of the 1990's. The auto companies are doing well but will never employ here at 1999 levels again. When those people retire there will be no jobs outside of Best Buy and the like, the vast majority of which you can't afford to live on.
The vulgar ugliness and impracticality of M-59 are almost as bad as the fact that there were people STUPID ENOUGH who allowed such poor development to happen in the first place, nay, encouraged it. Plenty of reasons to leave Metro Detroit.

The irony here is that M-59 should have had the freeway continued from Mound Rd. on thru to I-94. That way all the folks who are only passing thru would not be comingling with the local retail traffic. But there is such an anti-freeway mindset on this forum, that had that happened, even then people would be complaining. I'm not sure having 3 lanes of service drive to handle local traffic would have been the best solution... but what is there right now is a "bumper car ride" roadway.

And your retiree comment argument can be made for practically any location city suburban, exurban. My brother lives 1/2 mile from that stretch of M-59. His recently married son lives 2 miles from that roadway... so I would venture that we're talking about more than 1 generation of folks that want to live along this roadway already. So the demise of this area is so far into the future, that other areas will have failed long before this one does.

**Det_ard** · March-07-12, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

The irony here is that M-59 should have had the freeway continued from Mound Rd. on thru to I-94. That way all the folks who are only passing thru would not be comingling with the local retail traffic. But there is such an anti-freeway mindset on this forum, that had that happened, even then people would be complaining. I'm not sure having 3 lanes of service drive to handle local traffic would have been the best solution... but what is there right now is a "bumper car ride" roadway.

And your retiree comment argument can be made for practically any location city suburban, exurban. My brother lives 1/2 mile from that stretch of M-59. His recently married son lives 2 miles from that roadway... so I would venture that we're talking about more than 1 generation of folks that want to live along this roadway already. So the demise of this area is so far into the future, that other areas will have failed long before this one does.

No, that's impossible. No young people want to live anywhere other than downtown, in walkable, transit-oriented development. You are making this up and making lots of urbanists wince and cry.

**poobert** · March-07-12, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

No, that's impossible. No young people want to live anywhere other than downtown, in walkable, transit-oriented development. You are making this up and making lots of urbanists wince and cry.

You're right. Southeast Michigan, and Michigan as a whole, is obviously a model for good, well-planned, sustainable development. We saw that in the last census.

bartock · March-07-12, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

You're right. Southeast Michigan, and Michigan as a whole, is obviously a model for good, well-planned, sustainable development. We saw that in the last census.

The last census saw growth in the area being discussed, but of course everyone who thinks that mass transit is kinda down the list of "front burner" issues in this region is an idiot, according to some here. Anyone who thinks that there is actually growing diversity in the suburbs of this regions is an idiot. And, of course, to think that an issue like economic diversity is more front burner than "the problem" of having two malls in a relatively densly [[by almost any standard) populated area 20 miles outside of the City, is, somewhat predictably, considered idiocy. To some here. Repeatedly.

**antongast** · March-07-12, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

everyone who thinks that mass transit is kinda down the list of "front burner" issues in this region is an idiot

Well said.

bartock · March-07-12, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

Well said.

"The last census saw growth in the area being discussed, but of course everyone who thinks that mass transit is kinda down the list of "front burner" issues in this region is an idiot, according to some here. Anyone who thinks that there is actually growing diversity in the suburbs of this regions is an idiot. And, of course, to think that an issue like economic diversity is more front burner than "the problem" of having two malls in a relatively densly [[by almost any standard) populated area 20 miles outside of the City, is, somewhat predictably, considered idiocy. To some here. Repeatedly."

Thanks! I knew someone as so clearly intelligent as you wouldn't even have the capacity to cherry-pick a couple of words out of context and pretend to post them as truth, just to pretend to be clever!

**iheartthed** · March-07-12, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

So the demise of this area is so far into the future, that other areas will have failed long before this one does.

I doubt that area could withstand a prolonged period of $5+/gallon gasoline.

bartock · March-07-12, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I doubt that area could withstand a prolonged period of $5+/gallon gasoline.

At least one statement I read suggests that the area would be fine because the entire M-59/Hall Road corridor is homogenous, everyone hates Detroit, refuses to go to Detroit, refuses to work in Detroit, and everyone is exceedingly wealthy.

EDIT: ...and apparently that post, and Gistok's terrific reply, is gone.