Any Witnesses to the Wildings, 02/09/2013?

[Detroitnerd]

The distinction is something you seem to take for granted.. your Dad was in the home. There is a vast social safety net in this country and in this city meant to help get people through bad times. Much of it was listed out above. our "poor" are some of the most cared for and assisted "poor" ever to walk the earth. However, no amount of monetary help will correct the epidemic of single mother households "raising" multiple children from different absent fathers. It's a problem in the mostly black urban centers and it's a problem in white rural areas. Throwing more money at it isn't going to change a culture that sees nothing wrong with it.

What do you know? My dad was an abusive alcoholic who beat us and screamed at us most of the time he was home. It's a wonder we didn't end up in the hospital more often. I was relieved when he was finally gone and my mother could raise us precariously but lovingly -- and with the benefit of a vibrant public sector to see to my education, nutrition and edification.

Oh, but I guess I took my dad "for granted." Jesus ...

[canuck]

I can only conclude that mean childhoods make mean people. I grew up at the height of working-class prosperity. My dad brought home good wages and I was well-fed, given public school education that ranged from average to excellent, had a high standard of parks and pools and recreation available, and took advantage of lots of the perks of growing up in a place serious about providing education and recreation for young people.

And I think everybody should grow up like that. Whether they "work harder" or not.
...

What do you know? My dad was an abusive alcoholic who beat us and screamed at us most of the time he was home. It's a wonder we didn't end up in the hospital more often. I was relieved when he was finally gone and my mother could raise us precariously but lovingly -- and with the benefit of a vibrant public sector to see to my education, nutrition and edification.

Oh, but I guess I took my dad "for granted." Jesus ...

Wow detroitnerd, can't blame Bailey for being lead by your first post, talk about a bi-polar couple of postings...

[Detroitnerd]

Wow detroitnerd, can't blame Bailey for being lead by your first post, talk about a bi-polar couple of postings...

My childhood was one of extremes. Given the volatile life at home, you can see how much a vibrant, well-funded public sector meant to me. And then he wants to lecture single mothers, when that was the best thing to happen to me, and made me value the public sector even more.

A lot of so-called conservatives like nice little fables. But people are more complicated than nice stories are.

[corktownyuppie]

It's ridiculous that a high profile crime can turn into a debate about the effectiveness of socialism.

This was neighborhood kids brawling with other neighborhood kids who didn't have someone setting limits for them. If families and neighbors won't set the limits, then police will set the limits.

I'm actually big fan of socialism when it comes to education, especially pre-school and elementary ed. But that's for another topic.

Supposedly, that is.

[TKshreve]

This was neighborhood kids brawling with other neighborhood kids who didn't have someone setting limits for them. If families and neighbors won't set the limits, then police will set the limits.

I'm actually big fan of socialism when it comes to education, especially pre-school and elementary ed. But that's for another topic.

Supposedly, that is.

This is certainly not the first time something like this has happened in Detroit or MI either. But the implications are huge for a city like Detroit which has worked hard at climbing out of a hole. More so, it has striven to convince the people of this region that things are coming back and it's ok to come downtown for events, work and living. If this happened in a suburb, the implication would be much less severe. This only perpetuates the idea that Detroit is lawless and filled with vandals and criminals who think they are above the law. Is it?

People will view this event as the uncontrollable, wild west lifestyle of Detroit in general. They will fixate on this mess as another day in the life of Detroit, always unable to control itself, and run by crooks [[legal and of the street).

Good for the DPD being able to apprehend 70+ individuals in this instance. Rather resourceful, but I will guess that the event draw had a lot to do with the DPD being available en masse. And then they released most of them to their parent[[s).... which completes the slap on the wrist.

Huge blemish imo. Sad, because it will turn a variety of people away. Like those who were reconsidering the city after a handful of successful events were experienced without issue.

[corktownyuppie]

This is certainly not the first time something like this has happened in Detroit or MI either. But the implications are huge for a city like Detroit which has worked hard at climbing out of a hole. More so, it has striven to convince the people of this region that things are coming back and it's ok to come downtown for events, work and living. If this happened in a suburb, the implication would be much less severe. This only perpetuates the idea that Detroit is lawless and filled with vandals and criminals who think they are above the law. Is it?

People will view this event as the uncontrollable, wild west lifestyle of Detroit in general. They will fixate on this mess as another day in the life of Detroit, always unable to control itself, and run by crooks [[legal and of the street).

Good for the DPD being able to apprehend 70+ individuals in this instance. Rather resourceful, but I will guess that the event draw had a lot to do with the DPD being available en masse. And then they released most of them to their parent[[s).... which completes the slap on the wrist.

Huge blemish imo. Sad, because it will turn a variety of people away. Like those who were reconsidering the city after a handful of successful events were experienced without issue.

I agree with the substance of what you say. I do temper my feelings on it somewhat, though. This was a bruise and a blemish, that's for sure. At the same time, there was a story in the news today about men held at gunpoint and robbed at a pizza place at 21 mile rd in Macomb. Another story in AnnArbor.com today features a woman who was held at gunpoint and raped in her bed while her husband and their friends were one floor up standing on a balcony. This was just a few short blocks from campus.

Will this incident drive some people away from downtown? Yes. Is it infuriating and frustrating for those of us who've been working hard to change viewpoints? Yes. All these things are true.

Culture change and perception change is a long slugfest, with 5 steps forward and 3 steps back. I'm going to have my antenna up to see over the next 2-3 years how downtown battles the forces as hundreds/thousands of newcomer start to re-consider the city again. I try not to get to emotional about any one incident and certainly try not to forecast the consequences without a little bit of time and emotional distance.

And, again, for what it's worth...this is a story about the cops showing up, not a story about the cops taking 45 minutes to get there. That's actually a pretty good story in my book.

[bailey]

My childhood was one of extremes. Given the volatile life at home, you can see how much a vibrant, well-funded public sector meant to me. And then he wants to lecture single mothers, when that was the best thing to happen to me, and made me value the public sector even more.

A lot of so-called conservatives like nice little fables. But people are more complicated than nice stories are.

I'm glad you value the public sector and can see what it can do to help keep kids out of trouble. Too bad the elected leaders of Detroit don't share your opinion and have time and time again rejected plan after plan to enhance public resources.

You claim to have had a difficult childhood... however, my point still stands. Your father was still around and [[as you pointed out multiple times) supported you and your family financially. However unstable your childhood was it was idyllic and tranquil compared to what vast numbers of Detroit kids experience today. That is all I'm saying. I'm not making a value judgment or lecturing anyone. I'm simply pointing out facts.

Detroit [[like in poor rural white communities) has an epidemic of single mothers heading households and families being abandoned by the father. It's especially bad in the chronically poor. Go peruse the Data Driven Detroit report. 60% of the families in Detroit are headed by single mothers. 40% of kids in Detroit were born to single mothers and 25% of those Mothers were teenagers. 60% of children in Detroit live in poverty. 82% of kids that attend school are eligible for free lunches. 50% of Detroit's working age population was not working in 2011. There is nothing healthy or positive about any of that.

Also, no one is saying welfare moms get Cadillacs. Drop that tired trope. What we have is a very comprehensive SAFETY NET. By design it's supposed to be temporary assistance, something to get one through calamitous times. For far too many it's a livelihood as to do anything else would likely mean a pay and benefit cut. And that just feeds the negative feedback loop. Throwing more money at it has been proven out to not solve the problem. Culture has to take over. Until that happens, nothing will change.

[Detroitnerd]

Also, no one is saying welfare moms get Cadillacs. Drop that tired trope. What we have is a very comprehensive SAFETY NET. By design it's supposed to be temporary assistance, something to get one through calamitous times. For far too many it's a livelihood as to do anything else would likely mean a pay and benefit cut. And that just feeds the negative feedback loop. Throwing more money at it has been proven out to not solve the problem. Culture has to take over. Until that happens, nothing will change.

The safety net is in tatters. In the inner city, there simply aren't enough jobs. To blame the threadbare safety net for the hopeless despair of inner-city life is a rationalization of things, to say the least.

Anyway, this "personal responsibility" jazz is so American. Single-parent households have exploded in Nordic countries, and somehow they manage to produce new generations of educated, healthy young people with real future opportunities. Studies show that American single-parent families are in dire straits not because a man isn't there, but because of lagging social policies and backsliding public funding -- which would seem to be precisely the opposite conclusion you've come to.

http://sotrueradio.org/index.php/rss...arent-families

[Hermod]

The safety net is in tatters. In the inner city, there simply aren't enough jobs. To blame the threadbare safety net for the hopeless despair of inner-city life is a rationalization of things, to say the least.

Anyway, this "personal responsibility" jazz is so American. Single-parent households have exploded in Nordic countries, and somehow they manage to produce new generations of educated, healthy young people with real future opportunities. Studies show that American single-parent families are in dire straits not because a man isn't there, but because of lagging social policies and backsliding public funding -- which would seem to be precisely the opposite conclusion you've come to.

http://sotrueradio.org/index.php/rss...arent-families

Check out the article in the current "Economist" where the Nordic countries are cutting severely back on their public spending as a percent of GDP.

[Detroitnerd]

Check out the article in the current "Economist" where the Nordic countries are cutting severely back on their public spending as a percent of GDP.

I've been hearing that for years. Methinks anti-socialist commentators do overstate it a bit, a sort of wishful watching. The fact remains they have a vigorous form of socialism that protects people from the predations of capital.

Unlike our socialism, which uses the value created by the people to protect predatory capitalists.

[bailey]

The safety net is in tatters. In the inner city, there simply aren't enough jobs. To blame the threadbare safety net for the hopeless despair of inner-city life is a rationalization of things, to say the least.

The safety net is in tatters because it's been overtaxed by ever increasing numbers of people depending on it to live their lives.

I agree, the crux of the problem is the lack of good paying jobs. However, there will never be those jobs in a place where 50% of the adult population is functional illiterate, where only 60% of high school kids in DPS graduate, and an overall culture that is anti education. GM, ford, chrysler, toyota...whomever is never building a plant in Detroit that will allow GED holders to get a job, support a family of 4 on that income, and work a 40 year career with a pension. It hasn't been that way for at least a generation.

Anyway, this "personal responsibility" jazz is so American. Single-parent households have exploded in Nordic countries, and somehow they manage to produce new generations of educated, healthy young people with real future opportunities. Studies show that American single-parent families are in dire straits not because a man isn't there, but because of lagging social policies and backsliding public funding -- which would seem to be precisely the opposite conclusion you've come to.

http://sotrueradio.org/index.php/rss...arent-families

What you are arguing for is socialism. We're not a socialist country. We don't have single payer health care, nationally run schools, free or heavily subsidized post secondary education, child allowances, and lifetime welfare. We never did. So something else is the problem here.

For the record, I'm not saying single parent households are in dire straights because a man isn't there... I'm saying they are in dire straights because one of the parents isn't there, it just so happens that it is most often the man missing from the picture.

[Detroitnerd]

The safety net is in tatters because it's been overtaxed by ever increasing numbers of people depending on it to live their lives.

No, it's in tatters because it is increasingly cut year after year by both parties.

What you are arguing for is socialism. We're not a socialist country. We don't have single payer health care, nationally run schools, free or heavily subsidized post secondary education, child allowances, and lifetime welfare. We never did.

Actually, what the United States is is a "mixed economy." It has elements of capitalism and elements of socialism. The elements of socialism are there to temper the excesses of capitalism, and indeed I hope we swing more toward socializing medicine and other vital public processes, because capitalism is clearly not doing the job well.

Where'd I get this "mixed economy" jazz? It was in my social studies book in junior high school. And it's quite true.

[oladub]

The safety net is in tatters. In the inner city, there simply aren't enough jobs. To blame the threadbare safety net for the hopeless despair of inner-city life is a rationalization of things, to say the least.

Anyway, this "personal responsibility" jazz is so American. Single-parent households have exploded in Nordic countries, and somehow they manage to produce new generations of educated, healthy young people with real future opportunities. Studies show that American single-parent families are in dire straits not because a man isn't there, but because of lagging social policies and backsliding public funding -- which would seem to be precisely the opposite conclusion you've come to.

http://sotrueradio.org/index.php/rss...arent-families

Your article does not make any claim that Nordic countries "manage to produce new generations of educated, healthy young people with real future opportunities." Nor does it claim that single parent children do as well in Nordic countries. It may be true that achievement gaps and other disadvantages single parent children have in Scandinavia is less pronounce than in this Country because of a larger safety net. However, in Sweden, single parent children still fall significantly behind their two parent peers. Government policies should therefore encourage fathers to be present in households instead of being just dispensable breeding units.

http://www.thehilltoponline.com/2.48...8#.URrpYKWIF8s

[Detroitnerd]

Your article does not make any claim that Nordic countries "manage to produce new generations of educated, healthy young people with real future opportunities."

Have you seen statistics on crime in Nordic countries? Compared to the United States? Young Nordic folks generally do not go on rampages.

Well, except for Anders Breivert.

[Gannon]

So they are reporting that nothing happened within the festival safe zone, but my old Park Shelton roomie told me they brought the whole family to the Blast...and saw one teen taken down and arrested fifteen feet from them, just outside the warming tent by the ice sculptures.

They went home shortly afterward. Parked by the coney islands, but got there after the melee, and were wondering why they'd closed up early.



So, more proof the government is covering stuff up again. <sigh> I'd say the media was in collusion, but it is more likely that Channel 4 was the only news crew even in the city that night.

[AGinthe313]

So they are reporting that nothing happened within the festival safe zone, but my old Park Shelton roomie told me they brought the whole family to the Blast...and saw one teen was taken down and arrested fifteen feet from them, just outside the warming tent by the ice sculptures. They went home shortly afterward.

So, more proof they're covering stuff up again. <sigh>

I heard that a few of the kids ran inside the 24 Grille, picked-up a chair and threw it, and then ran out.