EDC votes to demo Tiger Stadium

[kraig]

Kraig, if you understand how business works, maybe you can explain why you're holding the OTSC to a higher standard than a private real estate developer.

These types of projects are *never* done with "cash on hand", nor do 100% of monies need to be "in-hand" before work can begin. The City could have turned this property over quite easily, but they refused to do so.

This decision by DEGC is purely political. If you look at their track record, it becomes quite clear that DEGC has more interest in demolition than they do development.

I'm holding them to the standard of a group that is familiar with the city's system and had more support from the city than people want to acknowledge. In case you haven't read all of my other posts, I'll reiterate.

The OTSC had the support of City Council, the City Planning Commision, Senator Carl Levin and 4million dollars, one of their Board members was a former employee of Maryann Mahaffey, one was a former member of the City Planning Commission and one was the floor majority leader up until January 1st. In the middle of a tight mayoral race were both candidates stated support for the project, there were just too many ample opportunites to get the deal done that were not pursued. Conservancy groups all over would give anything to be in the position that the OTSC was in. So if it seems that I'm holding them to a higher standard it's because opportunity knocked and they didn't answer.

You also need to have enough cash on hand to meet your benchmarks, or deadlines in this instance. It's not just about real estate. It's about how you're going to run your business.

The DEGC is going to do whatever the Mayor tells them to do. The OTSC should have had Cockrel tell DEGC to turn over the property.

[ghettopalmetto]

The OTSC had the support of City Council, the City Planning Commision, Senator Carl Levin and 4million dollars, one of their Board members was a former employee of Maryann Mahaffey, one was a former member of the City Planning Commission and one was the floor majority leader up until January 1st. In the middle of a tight mayoral race were both candidates stated support for the project, there were just too many ample opportunites to get the deal done that were not pursued. Conservancy groups all over what give anything to be in the position that the OTSC was in. So if it seems that I'm holding them to a higher standard it's because opportunity knocked and they didn't answer.

So, you're blaming the OTSC for the DEGC's demolition spree?

If the DEGC had simply decided to relieve themselves of this property, the OTSC could have started "soft" demolition of the remaining structure while waiting for the remaining funding to arrive from DC.

[kraig]

So, you're blaming the OTSC for the DEGC's demolition spree?

If the DEGC had simply decided to relieve themselves of this property, the OTSC could have started "soft" demolition of the remaining structure while waiting for the remaining funding to arrive from DC.

No, that's like blaming the Magic for beating the Cavs.

Again, the OTSC had the means to get the Mayor to tell the DEGC what to do. The OTSC ran around for over 6 months while Cockrel was in office as though Kwame was still in office. That, I do blame on the OTSC.

[Novine]

"Did they have enough cash on hand to purchase the property so that they would have leverage for this occasion? NO."

I don't know whether this is true or not. But it doesn't matter. DEGC is notorious for spurning offers to develop or acquire property by anyone who's not on their favorites list. No doubt that list is closely tied to who's connected or who's generously donated to the politicians. If you are so in the know, you would already know this and not offer up this phony line of attack.

[kraig]

"Did they have enough cash on hand to purchase the property so that they would have leverage for this occasion? NO."

I don't know whether this is true or not. But it doesn't matter. DEGC is notorious for spurning offers to develop or acquire property by anyone who's not on their favorites list. No doubt that list is closely tied to who's connected or who's generously donated to the politicians. If you are so in the know, you would already know this and not offer up this phony line of attack.

You don't know whether it's true or not, but you can say it's a phony line of attack. Okay.

I'm not saying that what the DEGC is doing is right. But, the OTSC is familiar with how the DEGC operates and how things work in this city. I notice that no one is actually responding to the point about the OTSC blowing their chances while Cockrel was in office. That's because you know I'm right. Everyone is looking at this from an emotional standpoint, I can understand that.

[ghettopalmetto]

Now I'm curious to know whose fault the Lafayette Building demolition will be. Certainly, one can't hold the DEGC accountable for decisions that they make.

[kraig]

Now I'm curious to know whose fault the Lafayette Building demolition will be. Certainly, one can't hold the DEGC accountable for decisions that they make.

Everyone is accountable for the decisions they make. The thing is, the DEGC is going to be perfectly fine with their decision on the Lafayette Building, as they are, with the Stadium. This is a part of what they do and this is how they do it.

If a person or group actively opposes the demolition and is granted an opportunity to prevent the demolition, then that group should be held accountable for their actions, or lack thereof, in meeting whatever goal or goals that were agreed upon.

Speaking again to being held to a higher standard, look at it in this perspective.

If a student is awarded an academic scholarship, they're expected to maintain a higher G.P.A. than students that are not awarded scholarships in order to retain their scholarships. If that student does not maintain that GPA and loses their scholarship, whose fault is it? The University's or the student's.

[ghettopalmetto]

Everyone is accountable for the decisions they make. The thing is, the DEGC is going to be perfectly fine with their decision on the Lafayette Building, as they are, with the Stadium. This is a part of what they do and this is how they do it.

If a person or group actively opposes the demolition and is granted an opportunity to prevent the demolition, then that group should be held accountable for their actions, or lack thereof, in meeting whatever goal or goals that were agreed upon.

Speaking again to being held to a higher standard, look at it in this perspective.

If a student is awarded an academic scholarship, they're expected to maintain a higher G.P.A. than students that are not awarded scholarships in order to retain their scholarships. If that student does not maintain that GPA and loses their scholarship, whose fault is it? The University's or the student's.

Kraig, you write as if the DEGC somehow did the OTSC a huge favor by stringing them along for the past ten years. Let's get this straight: there is zero opportunity cost for the DEGC to allow this historic building to remain standing.

The deadlines imposed by DEGC were artificial and arbitrary. There IS NO ALTERNATIVE in place other than demolition. Which begs the question: If the DEGC has the money to demolish the remainder of the structure, why can't they contribute said money toward ECONOMIC GROWTH [[you know, the "EG" in "DEGC") of this parcel?

The lack of willingness to commit funds to anything other than demolition, and the selective enforcement of arbitrary deadlines sends a huge message to the world, and that message is, "Welcome to Detroit. We don't want your business, and we don't give a shit."

[kraig]

Kraig, you write as if the DEGC somehow did the OTSC a huge favor by stringing them along for the past ten years. Let's get this straight: there is zero opportunity cost for the DEGC to allow this historic building to remain standing.

The deadlines imposed by DEGC were artificial and arbitrary. There IS NO ALTERNATIVE in place other than demolition. Which begs the question: If the DEGC has the money to demolish the remainder of the structure, why can't they contribute said money toward DEVELOPMENT [[you know, the "D" in "DEGC") of this parcel?

The lack of willingness to commit funds to anything other than demolition, and the selective enforcement of arbitrary deadlines sends a huge message to the world, and that message is, "Welcome to Detroit. We don't want your business, and we don't give a shit."

First off, I agree with your very last statement, and that's a huge problem in this City.

I'm not saying that the DEGC did the OTSC any favors. I'm not saying that the way DEGC is handling the situation is right. I also agree that money would be better spent in developing projects instead of demolishing [[ I'm rooting for the Book-Cadillac to succeed as much as anyone).

What I am saying is that the opportunity was there for the OTSC and they didn't take advantage of it. If they've been fighting for something for 10 years, as you say, why would they not meet a deadline when they have 80% of the financing, as the say, and not attempt to pay at any time for the subsequent 90 days?

[Fnemecek]

I'm holding them to the standard of a group that is familiar with the city's system and had more support from the city than people want to acknowledge. In case you haven't read all of my other posts, I'll reiterate.

The OTSC had the support of City Council, the City Planning Commision, Senator Carl Levin and 4million dollars, one of their Board members was a former employee of Maryann Mahaffey, one was a former member of the City Planning Commission and one was the floor majority leader up until January 1st. In the middle of a tight mayoral race were both candidates stated support for the project, there were just too many ample opportunites to get the deal done that were not pursued. Conservancy groups all over would give anything to be in the position that the OTSC was in.

Which one of those things do you believe was supposed to get the National Park Service to work faster?

Oh, wait! There I go asking you 10th grade level questions again. Sorry. You can wait a couple of years before answering.

By the way, you misspelled the words "commission" and "opportunities" in your post. Come on, kid. I'm sure they have dictionaries in your grade school by now. Please learn how to use them.

[kraig]

Which one of those things do you believe was supposed to get the National Park Service to work faster?

Oh, wait! There I go asking you 10th grade level questions again. Sorry. You can wait a couple of years before answering.

By the way, you misspelled the words "commission" and "opportunities" in your post. Come on, kid. I'm sure they have dictionaries in your grade school by now. Please learn how to use them.

I'll ignore your two deflecting comments and respond to your question.

Waiting for the National Park Service had nothing to do with reaching out to Ken Cockrel while he was the mayor.

[ghettopalmetto]

I'll ignore your two deflecting comments and respond to your question.

Waiting for the National Park Service had nothing to do with reaching out to Ken Cockrel while he was the mayor.

WTF? How you can pin DEGC's decision as the fault of OTSC is beyond me. That's like blaming a neglected child for not telling his parents he needs food and shelter.

[kraig]

WTF? How you can pin DEGC's decision as the fault of OTSC is beyond me. That's like blaming a neglected child for not telling his parents he needs food and shelter.

The OTSC aren't children. The OTSC is a board made up of very talented individuals who have been trying to work on this for a number of years. They know exactly what they want, and had a new mayor, at the time, that was very receptive to their project and familiar with their organization. Hell, half of this group probably has his home phone number.

By the way, even a child will tell you when he or she is hungry and/or cold. So that dog doesn't hunt.