Proposed Amtrak improvements - Pontiac/Detroit to Chicago

[XDetroitr]

Even though we are the wealthiest country on earth, we have the lowest level of political will or public support to improve high-speed mass transit of any industrialized country. I would be [[happily) amazed if anything proposed on that report actually happens in the next 10 years. Especially since this being the Mid-West where car is still king. I live in the NYC area where over 90% of AMTRAK's revenue comes from the Northeast Corridor travel. They have been unable to improve the Boston-NYC-Washington timetables to any significant amount.

[maverick1]

Even though we are the wealthiest country on earth, we have the lowest level of political will or public support to improve high-speed mass transit of any industrialized country. I would be [[happily) amazed if anything proposed on that report actually happens in the next 10 years. Especially since this being the Mid-West where car is still king. I live in the NYC area where over 90% of AMTRAK's revenue comes from the Northeast Corridor travel. They have been unable to improve the Boston-NYC-Washington timetables to any significant amount.

Considering the similar economis I would think some type of rail b/w upstate/western NY and Chicago would make sense. Detroit's economic tentacles reaches all through the Great Lakes so something similar to the Boston-NYC-Washington rail lines would be good. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Cleveland-Detroit-Chicago region second in density to Boston-NYC-Washington?

[XDetroitr]

Considering the similar economis I would think some type of rail b/w upstate/western NY and Chicago would make sense. Detroit's economic tentacles reaches all through the Great Lakes so something similar to the Boston-NYC-Washington rail lines would be good. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Cleveland-Detroit-Chicago region second in density to Boston-NYC-Washington?

I completely agree... but the political realities will not let this happen. Republicans generally hate mass transit since most of the people who use it are either poor or liberal Urbanites. Not their voting base.

[Honky Tonk]

I completely agree... but the political realities will not let this happen. Republicans generally hate mass transit since most of the people who use it are either poor or liberal Urbanites. Not their voting base.

That explains the wonderful mass transit system we have in Detroit being under Democratic rule.

[ghettopalmetto]

Considering the similar economis I would think some type of rail b/w upstate/western NY and Chicago would make sense. Detroit's economic tentacles reaches all through the Great Lakes so something similar to the Boston-NYC-Washington rail lines would be good. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Cleveland-Detroit-Chicago region second in density to Boston-NYC-Washington?

It would make almost too much sense. :-)

There are a few stumbling blocks that need to be overcome:

1. Indiana. While rail is [[and should be) a non-partisan issue, more conservative states tend to see any non-highway spending as "a waste". Any comprehensive Great Lakes rail plan would require significant investment by Indiana.

2. Columbus. The same kind of folks in Indiana are the people who have a majority--and the governor's chair--in Ohio. Remember, John Kasich won the governorship in 2010 by running against the [[federally-approved-and-funded) 3C Rail Line as "a waste of money that goes too slow and doesn't create jobs and we can't afford it anyway".

3. Norfolk Southern. The federal government is investigating NS to determine why trains from Chicago-to-Cleveland are perpetually late.

There is some hope, though. A coalition of lakeshore counties are banding together to improve intercity rail transportation. Greater Cleveland's MPO has recognized that the region needs less investment in highways and sprawl, and more investment in transit and rail in the urban core, in order to preserve the viability of the region. Columbus is showing interest in starting brand-new rail service to Chicago via Indianapolis. And state courts have now determined that excess Ohio Turnpike revenues can be used for infrastructure projects. Even ODOT has been holding meetings around the state to determine the level of need of improved transit service.

[Wesley Mouch]

It would make almost too much sense. :-)

There are a few stumbling blocks that need to be overcome:

1. Indiana. While rail is [[and should be) a non-partisan issue, more conservative states tend to see any non-highway spending as "a waste". Any comprehensive Great Lakes rail plan would require significant investment by Indiana.

2. Columbus. The same kind of folks in Indiana are the people who have a majority--and the governor's chair--in Ohio. Remember, John Kasich won the governorship in 2010 by running against the [[federally-approved-and-funded) 3C Rail Line as "a waste of money that goes too slow and doesn't create jobs and we can't afford it anyway".

3. Norfolk Southern. The federal government is investigating NS to determine why trains from Chicago-to-Cleveland are perpetually late.

There is some hope, though. A coalition of lakeshore counties are banding together to improve intercity rail transportation. Greater Cleveland's MPO has recognized that the region needs less investment in highways and sprawl, and more investment in transit and rail in the urban core, in order to preserve the viability of the region. Columbus is showing interest in starting brand-new rail service to Chicago via Indianapolis. And state courts have now determined that excess Ohio Turnpike revenues can be used for infrastructure projects. Even ODOT has been holding meetings around the state to determine the level of need of improved transit service.

Thanks for the info on the 'hope'. I think with time you will see changes in attitude -- although falling gas prices and improved fuel economy may slow it in the near term.

As to the resistance to transit money, I think the problem isn't the transit, but rather the often-correct perception that urban money isn't well spent. Changing this will involve better urban financial management more than anything else. Many have fought urban reorganization, and they continue to push for the 'old way' of doing things rather than a re-thinking of government. If you want out-state buy-in -- work for in-city improvements in non-transit areas.

[maverick1]

It would make almost too much sense. :-)

There are a few stumbling blocks that need to be overcome:

1. Indiana. While rail is [[and should be) a non-partisan issue, more conservative states tend to see any non-highway spending as "a waste". Any comprehensive Great Lakes rail plan would require significant investment by Indiana.

2. Columbus. The same kind of folks in Indiana are the people who have a majority--and the governor's chair--in Ohio. Remember, John Kasich won the governorship in 2010 by running against the [[federally-approved-and-funded) 3C Rail Line as "a waste of money that goes too slow and doesn't create jobs and we can't afford it anyway".

3. Norfolk Southern. The federal government is investigating NS to determine why trains from Chicago-to-Cleveland are perpetually late.

There is some hope, though. A coalition of lakeshore counties are banding together to improve intercity rail transportation. Greater Cleveland's MPO has recognized that the region needs less investment in highways and sprawl, and more investment in transit and rail in the urban core, in order to preserve the viability of the region. Columbus is showing interest in starting brand-new rail service to Chicago via Indianapolis. And state courts have now determined that excess Ohio Turnpike revenues can be used for infrastructure projects. Even ODOT has been holding meetings around the state to determine the level of need of improved transit service.

You're right. Indiana and Ohio would be huge obstacles to this. Frankly, the Great Lakes region SUCK at building on their advantages. I think the reason behind that is more political than anything else.

[Gpwrangler]

You're right. Indiana and Ohio would be huge obstacles to this. Frankly, the Great Lakes region SUCK at building on their advantages. I think the reason behind that is more political than anything else.

Parts of indiana [[near the Michigan border) seem to be behind rail projects.