Let's talk about how the roads around here are PISS POOR, and an embarassment.

[sumas]

Found this news item about a fourteen year old student at a private school in Montreal who thought up a smart scheme to do repair potholes;

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...thole-solution

Thank you for sharing. I was very impressed with this young man's ingenuity. A key aid to city councilman Cushingberry was over last night. He is taking it to him and if impressed he will direct copies to all appropriate state and county agencies. It's time we get departments to think out of the box.

[Wheels]

Thank you for sharing. I was very impressed with this young man's ingenuity. A key aid to city councilman Cushingberry was over last night. He is taking it to him and if impressed he will direct copies to all appropriate state and county agencies. It's time we get departments to think out of the box.

Ha Ha! You used Cushingberry and Aid in the same sentence. Funny!

[RO_Resident]

Found this news item about a fourteen year old student at a private school in Montreal who thought up a smart scheme to do repair potholes;

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...thole-solution

The pavement designers typically add materials like polypropylene or polyester to help the road resist cracking. It's not there for waterproofing. The pothole edge is the problem, not the cold patch itself.
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/m...4_414365_7.pdf

Traverse City has an infrared heater to melt asphalt into a pothole to create a real waterproof seal with the road.
See page 4
http://michiganltap.org/sites/ltap/f...ge28-3_web.pdf

[Jayp213]

Okay, so not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I'm just curious...are we the only state that has really crappy roads, because we are definitely not the only area that gets snowfall and uses salt on their roads and I wonder if other states are this bad as well or is it just another Pure Michigan characteristic we posess?

[sirrealone]

I don't think it's just a Michigan thing, we just happen to have probably the worst of it around the area.

We traveled to Sandusky last weekend, our first trip through Ohio in quite a few years, and I was amazed at how poor the conditions of many roads, including the Ohio Turnpike, had become. I'm 40 and I always remember the Turnpike being pristine, but now there are spots where it's on par with some of the subpar areas of I-75 in MI. I think the economic downturn hit the Turnpike hard. They had issued bonds to add a third lane in each direction through a good portion of the roadway in the 1990's and 2000's, but when the economy tanked, their toll revenue went way down and they could barely service the bonds, let alone keep the roadway in the normally top-notch condition. Looks like they're getting things back to normal now, but just like here, when you let things deterioriate, it won't get fixed overnight.

Like anything else, it all comes down to money. States that prioritize spending on infrastructure have good roads. States that don't have roads that fall apart.

[WKL]

I'll live out in CA but get back to Detroit frequently. I can't really tell the difference between road condition in MI and CA, they suck - and it doesn't snow down in the Sacramento Valley. The roads over Donner Summit are way worse. You car rattles and bounces until you hit the NV state line. Tire chains are reason, but a lot of I-80 hasn't been repaired in years.

[erikd]

Here's an even better idea. Take the average 1.6 bil that is raised annually, [[Thanx for those reports RO_Resident) from gasoline tax, OUT of the General Fund, and put it what it was intended for, repair of roads and bridges. Once money is in the General Fund, it can be used for "General" things. You're not showing me it's being spent yearly on road improvement. And if it is, it's being pissed away so next year more can be obtained and pissed away. Go ahead, raise taxes. 10 years down the road, this scenario of "not enough money" will be repeating itself. It always does.

Honky Tonk,

It seems clear that you are opposed to inflation-adjusting the $.19 per gallon state gas tax, and I am curious if you feel the same way about other government fees that are assessed on a per unit basis.

Are you also opposed to inflationary increases in other state fees, such as state park passes, vehicle registration fees, hunting/fishing license fees, etc?

[lpg]

erikd, Do you like to see your hard earned tax dollars wasted ? How many times did they promise the money would be used for specific programs, only to be shifted around ? Lottery for schools, gas tax for roads etc. It's nothing more than a shell game.

[RO_Resident]

erikd, Do you like to see your hard earned tax dollars wasted ? How many times did they promise the money would be used for specific programs, only to be shifted around ? Lottery for schools, gas tax for roads etc. It's nothing more than a shell game.

Yet, 99.5% of Lottery revenues are deposited into the School Aid Fund [[see pdf page 30 of this: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...R_476598_7.pdf ). Yes, $742.8MM of $746.8MM were deposited into the school aid fund. It can never be 100%, as some money must be set aside for community health/problem gambling.

Road revenues are distributed by formula. The money must be used for some transportation purpose, yes including public transportation, recreation, and trails. [[Sorry, more background information, some a wee bit out of date, but still pretty good: http://house.michigan.gov/hfa/Archives/PDF/act51.pdf). In fact, some General Fund money has been flexed into the state's transportation program the past couple of years.

[erikd]

erikd, Do you like to see your hard earned tax dollars wasted ? How many times did they promise the money would be used for specific programs, only to be shifted around ? Lottery for schools, gas tax for roads etc. It's nothing more than a shell game.

As RO_Resident points out, these taxes are distributed by formula, many of which haven't changed in decades.

The road funding shortfall is primarily due to the fixed per gallon tax, which has not been adjusted for inflation in 18 years. The per gallon gas tax is unlike most taxes [[income tax, sales tax, property tax, etc.) which are percentage based and automatically adjust for inflation.

Just like license fees, the per gallon gas tax needs to be periodically adjusted for inflation. It's not some kind of shell game or scam.

[Gpwrangler]

As RO_Resident points out, these taxes are distributed by formula, many of which haven't changed in decades.

The road funding shortfall is primarily due to the fixed per gallon tax, which has not been adjusted for inflation in 18 years. The per gallon gas tax is unlike most taxes [[income tax, sales tax, property tax, etc.) which are percentage based and automatically adjust for inflation.

Just like license fees, the per gallon gas tax needs to be periodically adjusted for inflation. It's not some kind of shell game or scam.

I was thinking as I avoided a couple potholes on Mack this morning. All this talk of reaching in my wallet yet again and funding these huge road projects, tearing everything up for the next five years, and billing us out the ass for it is great, but couldn't the VAST number of public employees I see nudging up to the trough everyday grab a shovel and drop a little cold patch in these bad spots? It's really ridiculous how little work it would take to patch some of these until permanent repairs can be made.

This reminds me of the trashed DPS buildings I see everyday. Rather than throw up a little plywood and turn the lights on, they just let it go to shit. Really????

The predominant problem solving method these days seems to be my wallet. I'm tapped out. The people we pay need to get to work.

[canuck]

I was thinking as I avoided a couple potholes on Mack this morning. All this talk of reaching in my wallet yet again and funding these huge road projects, tearing everything up for the next five years, and billing us out the ass for it is great, but couldn't the VAST number of public employees I see nudging up to the trough everyday grab a shovel and drop a little cold patch in these bad spots? It's really ridiculous how little work it would take to patch some of these until permanent repairs can be made.

This reminds me of the trashed DPS buildings I see everyday. Rather than throw up a little plywood and turn the lights on, they just let it go to shit. Really????

The predominant problem solving method these days seems to be my wallet. I'm tapped out. The people we pay need to get to work.

Maybe, just maybe that is the point. Potholes are conveniently put there to remind you to fill out your Income Tax papers!

[msamslex]

Been meaning to post this.
Got two robo calls on 3/28, @11:39 am and 6:38 pm. CID said Safe Roads Yes. No other calls since then. I didn't answer and no message was left. I imagine more calls are forthcoming as May 5 gets closer.

[ABetterDetroit]

It is really fucked up how both political parties will hold this issue hostage indefinitely. A flat tax cut on income at the same time you raise taxes for the roads? Why don't you just say what you really mean "We need road funding but the most wealthy should not have to pay for it, in fact they should get a tax cut why we raise them for everyone else."

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...asse/73869510/

[belleislerunner]

Most of the roads I travel in Detroit are actually in much better shape than the suburban counterparts. The Lodge is pretty smooth. 94 through downtown is pretty smooth from Macomb all the way to Dearborn. 75 is pretty good from downtown up to 8 mile with the exception of the 1/2 mile stretch by 94.

The roads that are terrible that never seem to get fixed are 75 between 696 and Big Beaver. For Oakland County standards - that's been terrible for years. Even the exit ramps getting off 75 at 11 mile for Royal Oak are terrible. 11 Mile by the synagogue/Telegraph is terrible.

Detroit's repaving Woodward, they did Mack this year - most of them aren't as bad as our outer burbs. At least in my opinion.

[Gpwrangler]

It is really fucked up how both political parties will hold this issue hostage indefinitely. A flat tax cut on income at the same time you raise taxes for the roads? Why don't you just say what you really mean "We need road funding but the most wealthy should not have to pay for it, in fact they should get a tax cut why we raise them for everyone else."

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...asse/73869510/

Such bullshit. The roads aren't that bad and half of them are already under construction. They need to manage the money they have.

[Honky Tonk]

such bullshit. The roads aren't that bad and half of them are already under construction. They need to manage the money they have.

big +5.......

[ABetterDetroit]

Such bullshit. The roads aren't that bad and half of them are already under construction. They need to manage the money they have.

Then why won't they do it? They have been saying that's what needs to be done for years now but they still won't allocate the annual funding for roads and account for inflation and spend it on NOTHING else. What stops them? They have a clear majority in the house, senate and the Governor. Denial of issues and inaction will not sustain this party in the long run.

[Gpwrangler]

Then why won't they do it? They have been saying that's what needs to be done for years now but they still won't allocate the annual funding for roads and account for inflation and spend it on NOTHING else. What stops them? They have a clear majority in the house, senate and the Governor. Denial of issues and inaction will not sustain this party in the long run.

Money must be coming from somewhere. Everywhere I drive there's work being done.

[ABetterDetroit]

Money must be coming from somewhere. Everywhere I drive there's work being done.

With all due respect sir but by your countless posts of extreme irritation with all things encountered on the road ways while piloting your pickup truck station wagon you might not be the best judge of if there is adequate repair and replacement of road surfaces in this state. I am pretty darn sure that in your commute one orange barrel is one to many.

[Gpwrangler]

With all due respect sir but by your countless posts of extreme irritation with all things encountered on the road ways while piloting your pickup truck station wagon you might not be the best judge of if there is adequate repair and replacement of road surfaces in this state. I am pretty darn sure that in your commute one orange barrel is one to many.

I'm sick of all the pissing and moaning about "not enough money" to repair roads. There obviously is money since exactly 50% of my one way mileage is construction. There may be a few bad roads needing repair but politicians should not be whining and working all night trying to create an emergency. I put on about 75,000 miles annually on this state's roads and most of them don't even slosh my coffee cup. Hands off what's left of my income.

[ABetterDetroit]

I put on about 75,000 miles annually on this state's roads and most of them don't even slosh my coffee cup. Hands off what's left of my income.

You do know that the minority of "them" that do "slosh your coffee cup" could actually kill women and children as their vehicle careens out of control because it is not a 5000 lb full size truck based SUV right? Not everyone has the resources to wrap themselves up in one of those as you so proudly do. Step out of yourself for change, look around, ask ten people you don't know very well what they think of the roads in this state. I did it today after our first exchange this morning, its was unanimous they suck 14-0

[Gpwrangler]

You do know that the minority of "them" that do "slosh your coffee cup" could actually kill women and children as their vehicle careens out of control because it is not a 5000 lb full size truck based SUV right? Not everyone has the resources to wrap themselves up in one of those as you so proudly do. Step out of yourself for change, look around, ask ten people you don't know very well what they think of the roads in this state. I did it today after our first exchange this morning, its was unanimous they suck 14-0

Save it dude. You've watched too many road commercials. Most of the careening around here has nothing to do with the roads. My choice of vehicle reflects safety as a priority, it is a little older and costs less the neighbor's hybrid car and certainly less than his cable bill each month. I actually maintain it and pay attention to driving and not my phone unlike most around here. If you watch the news and actually drive [[not just around Detroit) you know that the vast majority of the fatalities on these roads are caused by piss poor driving. The old "giant SUV" argument is bullshit too. You don't decide safety priorities for others.

If you read the threads you know I support road improvements and repairs but oppose the stupid waste I see in government every day. I also object to "scare tactics" being used to pick my pocket. I don't know how much fuel and road taxes you pay, but I already pay plenty so feel free to write an additional check if you like. I don't need stupid exaggerated road commercials that blame the roads for downright shitty driving, I see it first hand every day. By the way, many of the local roads in Detroit itself DO suck so you got that part right but the money that should be spent on them is being wasted, much of it to heat and light big buildings full of politicians who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag. Quite a bit of it was spent making a phony commercial with a fake wrecked school bus which was damaged in a studio, not on these "terrible roads".

[ABetterDetroit]

Save it dude. You've watched too many road commercials. Most of the careening around here has nothing to do with the roads. My choice of vehicle reflects safety as a priority, it is a little older and costs less the neighbor's hybrid car and certainly less than his cable bill each month. I actually maintain it and pay attention to driving and not my phone unlike most around here. If you watch the news and actually drive [[not just around Detroit) you know that the vast majority of the fatalities on these roads are caused by piss poor driving. The old "giant SUV" argument is bullshit too. You don't decide safety priorities for others.

If you read the threads you know I support road improvements and repairs but oppose the stupid waste I see in government every day. I also object to "scare tactics" being used to pick my pocket. I don't know how much fuel and road taxes you pay, but I already pay plenty so feel free to write an additional check if you like. I don't need stupid exaggerated road commercials that blame the roads for downright shitty driving, I see it first hand every day. By the way, many of the local roads in Detroit itself DO suck so you got that part right but the money that should be spent on them is being wasted, much of it to heat and light big buildings full of politicians who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag. Quite a bit of it was spent making a phony commercial with a fake wrecked school bus which was damaged in a studio, not on these "terrible roads".

I don't care what you drive, it's a free country. Just don't think it's quite right to set the standards of our road surfaces for off road capable vehicles that's all and for people who drive them to go around saying their fine because there are not, they are shitty, real shitty all over.

For anyone to say that using safety is just a scare tactic, has blinders on. People are weaving in and around potholes everywhere, across double yellow lines, through intersections, turn lanes. Anyone who does drive in this state encounters these driving tactics all winter long. It's not safe. Traffic fatalities due to unrelated issues are irrelevant to that fact. Because people die on the road drinking or texting we no longer have a responsibility to make roads as safe as possible? That's a callous ignorant argument. Get your last word, I'm done.

[Gpwrangler]

I don't care what you drive, it's a free country. Just don't think it's quite right to set the standards of our road surfaces for off road capable vehicles that's all and for people who drive them to go around saying their fine because there are not, they are shitty, real shitty all over.

For anyone to say that using safety is just a scare tactic, has blinders on. People are weaving in and around potholes everywhere, across double yellow lines, through intersections, turn lanes. Anyone who does drive in this state encounters these driving tactics all winter long. It's not safe. Traffic fatalities due to unrelated issues are irrelevant to that fact. Because people die on the road drinking or texting we no longer have a responsibility to make roads as safe as possible? That's a callous ignorant argument. Get your last word, I'm done.

Your reading comprehension sucks. Now I'm done.