Detroit Couple Ready to Move after Robbery

**Zacha341** · April-12-12, 09:36 AM

Stupid security company left scene. Sad to see decent folk throw up their hands and get out... The thieves broke in during the day!

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...obref=obinsite

**JBMcB** · April-12-12, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Stupid security company left scene

Now this sounds like a good situation for a lawsuit. What the hell are you paying a security company for if they won't secure anything?

**Zacha341** · April-12-12, 11:44 AM

Agreed. The report says the 'security' company parked a few house down. Perhaps they did not want to intervene? The thieves had ample time to 'buzzard' pick thru the house and get stuff they wanted including a very large flat screen TV. No wonder the couple wants out. The thieves probably laid wait for the couple to go to work. That is the 'predatory' criminal thing... self-justified no doubt.

**iheartthed** · April-12-12, 11:58 AM

I hope they kept their guns secured in a safe or else here's another case of legal guns ending up in criminals hands.

**Zacha341** · April-12-12, 12:30 PM

Or at least well hidden [[during the day)... a locked safe may be too far away when you need a gun to thrawrt a home invader or rapist. So the responsible thing is to put guns away after awakening if you live in an area where you need them literally by your pillow! And some areas are so rough that bed side guns are needed. Sad situation, but I can understand the need and support the right.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I hope they kept their guns secured in a safe or else here's another case of legal guns ending up in criminals hands.

**Gannon** · April-12-12, 01:41 PM

EVERY security panel has the ability to call more than one phone number. At least the ones worth the cost. There are battery-backed-up cellular systems which do not rely upon landline connections. The owner should be notified IMMEDIATELY if their system gets tripped...along with the monitoring company.

This couple is the perfect example of thinking Detroiters...looking at the potential problems and planning ahead for 'em. The security company needs to be NAMED and called out for their negligence.

It is likely they don't do their own monitoring, unless they are HUGE. Most of the smaller firms use Vigilante's monitoring in Southfield. That might've been a portion of the delay in notification.

Fact they had on-site response, and even THAT failed?! Lawsuit. They win the stuff back, but we all lose in the end. <sigh>

No cheers...

**Gannon** · April-12-12, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I hope they kept their guns secured in a safe or else here's another case of legal guns ending up in criminals hands.

And since they took every possible precaution to secure them, there is no liability on the home-owner's part. Not a whit.

**iheartthed** · April-12-12, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

And since they took every possible precaution to secure them, there is no liability on the home-owner's part. Not a whit.

If they properly secured them, maybe.

But just for shits and giggles, should a licensed gun owner share some responsibility if a gun is stolen from his/her home and used in a crime? New York City sues gun shop owners in states with lax gun control laws when those guns are used to shoot NYPD officers. [[There have been over half a dozen cops shot in NYC this year so these law suits are pretty frequent.) If I were injured by a gun stolen from a private house then I'd be inclined to file suit against the original owner myself...

**David L** · April-12-12, 08:45 PM

This is a sign for a much more pressing problem in Detroit: B and E is at historic highs in the city proper and is an epidemic!
Middle class black families want out! The security companies are overwhelmed

**Scottathew** · April-12-12, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by David L

Middle class black families want out!

And the families that can't make it out are sending their kids to other school districts. I worked for Madison District Schools a while back. At the time they were facing an enrollment crisis. The school district had low test scores, and people were avoiding moving to the school district if they were looking to raise a family.

However, even though this failing district was 2nd worse only to Pontiac within Oakland County, it was amazingly better than DPS. Literacy rates were much, much higher. Dropout rates much lower.

At the time I worked there, 33% of the high school population was made up of kids from Wayne County [[presumably almost all from Detroit). Some of the kids had to take two, three, and in one case I knew of, four buses to get to school [[DDOT\SMART).

It amazed me what drastic steps folks were taking so that there kids could have a better life, and just how bad things were in Detroit, that the bottom of the barrel in Oakland County was something that people would go so out of there way to get to.

While its exciting to see all the momentum downtown, with lots of jobs being moved and created. However, it's sad to see that many neighborhoods continue to decay. When people get enough money to move to somewhere safe, they have a duty to their family to do so.

It's a vicious cycle, and I wish I knew what the answer was to fix it. Reducing crime drastically and drastically improving DPS is what needs to be done, but how the hell do we do that? I don't think it's impossible, but the answer is beyond what my mind alone can think up.

**evergreen** · April-12-12, 09:34 PM

Just had another neighbor advise me this morning that she is giving up. Even though she's turned her home into a fortress, the thieves keep probing etc. etc. They broke into her parked car and that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

They call them property crimes, but they really wear at the psyche.

This will be my last summer in Detroit. The neighborhoods in this city are on a death spiral and there's no reasonable probability of an intervening force stopping it.

**56packman** · April-12-12, 11:12 PM

The time to get out was long ago. We left in 1969.

**Gistok** · April-12-12, 11:59 PM

With Detroit non-historic neighborhood property values at only about 10-20% of what they were 10 years ago, people are just walking away from their homes.

Just to show how bad it's gotten... a block in the 48224 [[far east side) zip code had homes selling for around 95-115K 10 years ago. Then they went down to 65K about 5 years ago... now they're at 15K and dropping.... some beautiful streets just west of EEV have homes for 4K... and what was once a nice area [[Morningside) now has a lot of empty lots.

**rondinjp** · April-13-12, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

With Detroit non-historic neighborhood property values at only about 10-20% of what they were 10 years ago, people are just walking away from their homes.

Just to show how bad it's gotten... a block in the 48224 [[far east side) zip code had homes selling for around 95-115K 10 years ago. Then they went down to 65K about 5 years ago... now they're at 15K and dropping.... some beautiful streets just west of EEV have homes for 4K... and what was once a nice area [[Morningside) now has a lot of empty lots.

Yeah, it is shocking [[and quite scary) how quickly this whole east side area of Detroit has become decimated over the last 10 years. When I moved back to Detroit 9 years ago it was still a "stable" and nice area. Now, with most houses in this area are selling for less than $12k, the area has started to become downright scary. I am also hearing gunfire on an almost consistent basis every night coming from this area. That, is becoming increasingly worrisome.

**Gannon** · April-13-12, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

If they properly secured them, maybe.

But just for shits and giggles, should a licensed gun owner share some responsibility if a gun is stolen from his/her home and used in a crime? New York City sues gun shop owners in states with lax gun control laws when those guns are used to shoot NYPD officers. [[There have been over half a dozen cops shot in NYC this year so these law suits are pretty frequent.) If I were injured by a gun stolen from a private house then I'd be inclined to file suit against the original owner myself...

You'd have no ground to stand on that...and they have no liability. Gunshop owners MAY have bent rules, or knowingly used a strawman...or other means of getting guns into the hands of bad people...but if they followed the letter of the law, they don't have any culpability, either. Zero.

Some yahoos go back to the manufacturers, saying the weapons are only designed to take a life...but you might as well sue China for f'in' gunpowder and the Nobel empire for dynamite, too!

Now, if a homeowner laid a series of landmines around the perimeter of their property...or dug a moat...or electrified a fence [[always my fantasy security tool, a big burglar-sized bug-zapper just inside another fence)...then there is some room to sue.

If they left them lying around the house...with no locks or security...you'd have a reasonable case. But not if they were in a locked home with a security system. The only reasonable gun safes are those that open with the flat-hand quick access, but some might even fail to remember the combination under duress and extreme stress...when they need the weapon the most.

<sigh>

Then again, you're not in my choir...and might not clearly hear this wanton preaching...

**downtown_racine** · April-13-12, 08:57 AM

Why would a security guard want to get killed over someone else's teevee ?
Blame the human debris burglars not the homeowners or security gaurd, is the security even carrying a sidearm I wonder ?

**iheartthed** · April-13-12, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

Then again, you're not in my choir...and might not clearly hear this wanton preaching...

Pretty much. Not to say I don't respect your opinion, just don't agree with it.

**SWMAP** · April-13-12, 09:13 AM

"If I were injured by a gun stolen from a private house then I'd be inclined to file suit against the original owner myself..."

Good luck with that.

I had a registered pistol stolen from my house. I reported it to the DPD and made out a police report. I imagine that it probably has been used in a crime [[pretty likely because stolen by a neighbor who landed back in prison subsequently).

I never heard another word. I have no more responsibility for a crime committed with a stolen gun than I have if someone used my stolen tv to bop someone or electrocute someone.

**iheartthed** · April-13-12, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

I never heard another word. I have no more responsibility for a crime committed with a stolen gun than I have if someone used my stolen tv to bop someone or electrocute someone.

Not quite the same thing. We're pretty much arguing about what is a reasonable step to take to ensure that your gun doesn't end up in the hands of a criminal who will use the weapon to commit a crime. Gannon's opinion is that just locking the doors to your house is enough. That probably is the law in most states, however, some states do require you to secure your guns in a safe even while in your home.

My father has a CCW permit in Michigan and owns a lot of guns [[rifles and hand guns) which he keeps locked in a safe. The only gun that he doesn't keep in his safe is the one that he carries with him whenever he leaves his house. If his house gets burglarized while he's not home there is about a 0% chance that a gun he owns will get stolen and end up in a criminal's hands.

**SWMAP** · April-13-12, 09:48 AM

My weapon was hidden but not locked. I am very sure that I had no legal or moral responsibility for any subsequent use. If a bad guy had taken my weapon from my very person by force and used it later to kill/hurt/rob someone - why would I bear any responsibility? I boggles the mind.

I imagine that if I freely GAVE or lent a pistol to any Tom, Dick or Harry and then it was used - then I have some responsibility.But it was taken from me in a crime itself.

**iheartthed** · April-13-12, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

My weapon was hidden but not locked. I am very sure that I had no legal or moral responsibility for any subsequent use. If a bad guy had taken my weapon from my very person by force and used it later to kill/hurt/rob someone - why would I bear any responsibility? I boggles the mind.

I imagine that if I freely GAVE or lent a pistol to any Tom, Dick or Harry and then it was used - then I have some responsibility.But it was taken from me in a crime itself.

People get sued all the time for owning dogs that attack trespassers on their own property. It just depends on what the law deems the reasonable minimum amount of precaution that a dog owner should take to warn people about the dog.

Likewise, you are still responsible for your gun. Not sure why people think they are so responsible for their own protection and not as equally responsible for the means that they use for the level of protection they seek.

**rex** · April-13-12, 10:20 AM

I see it like this. A lot of predators in the neighborhoods of Detroit. After 2 or 3 decades of middle class flight its slim pickings for these criminals. You don't want to be assumed to have ANYTHING. Back in the 80s and 90s you could be victimized sure, and many people with things to lose and steady income beat it on down the road. 2012 the target class is a lot more narrow.
Order of operations = Steal their valuables, chase them out the neighborhood -> strip the plumbing.