Let's talk about how the roads around here are PISS POOR, and an embarassment.

[noise]

No doubt I-75 is in much better shape in Ohio. However, get off some of the main roads, and you will see the same sort of issues you see in Michigan. Secondary routes show overloading due to traffic, poor drainage, or other issues.

A couple of years ago, we took the back way to Cedar Point. You would be hard-pressed to see any difference in the quality of roads between the two states.

Certainly not a random sample, but Ohio's roads aren't always 'paved in gold'.

I live in Ohio. The roads, across the board, are way better than Michigan's.

[DetroitPlanner]

I live in Ohio. The roads, across the board, are way better than Michigan's.

That is nothing to boast about. Kind of like saying you can kick a baby's @$$ in a fist-fight.

[noise]

That is nothing to boast about. Kind of like saying you can kick a baby's @$$ in a fist-fight.

I agree, which is why I wasn't boasting. I was countering an uninformed statement and addressing the fact that Michigan is failing in this area.

Nice try, I guess.

[DetroitPlanner]

I agree, which is why I wasn't boasting. I was countering an uninformed statement and addressing the fact that Michigan is failing in this area.

Nice try, I guess.

I do see a difference between ODOT roads and local roads in Ohio. In Toldeo ODOT has spent billions on widening/upgrading the Glass City Skyway and turning US-24 into a freeway. Yes some of the interchanges are still 1950's style on the older freeways and you do see freeway overpass bridges with plywood keeping chunks from falling onto the pavement below. There is a lot of disparity in Ohio.

[Honky Tonk]

I do see a difference between ODOT roads and local roads in Ohio. In Toldeo ODOT has spent billions on widening/upgrading the Glass City Skyway and turning US-24 into a freeway. Yes some of the interchanges are still 1950's style on the older freeways and you do see freeway overpass bridges with plywood keeping chunks from falling onto the pavement below. There is a lot of disparity in Ohio.

OH is part of this "Rustbelt" thing too, and is also going through some hard times, like MI. However, I don't think OH's tax base is as depleted as MI's, though.

[rb336]

Another +1 for DetroitPlanner's analogy. Possibly the best one I've read on here

[DetroitPlanner]

Another +1 for DetroitPlanner's analogy. Possibly the best one I've read on here

What? I am not getting piled on like the Hopcat thread? LOL

[Wesley Mouch]

I do see a difference between ODOT roads and local roads in Ohio. In Toldeo ODOT has spent billions on widening/upgrading the Glass City Skyway and turning US-24 into a freeway. Yes some of the interchanges are still 1950's style on the older freeways and you do see freeway overpass bridges with plywood keeping chunks from falling onto the pavement below. There is a lot of disparity in Ohio.

MDOT does seem to be obsessed with spending money to remove these anachronisms, like the I94/Ford Road interchange. I loved that old interchange. They replaced a perfectly nice 'merge' with a 'T' intersection. Sure, I understand the idea -- but it hardly seems like it was worth the expense. And there went some great history.

[RO_Resident]

I agree, which is why I wasn't boasting. I was countering an uninformed statement and addressing the fact that Michigan is failing in this area.

Nice try, I guess.

ASCE crunches national numbers every year. Based on HPMS data, they find that--

• 38% of Michigan’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.
• 42% of Ohio’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.

[noise]

ASCE crunches national numbers every year. Based on HPMS data, they find that--

• 38% of Michigan’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.
• 42% of Ohio’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.

And you led your argument with a trip to Cedar Point a few years ago?

This is all well and good, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find an overwhelming number of people who have experience with both states agreeing with you. If that means 35% of Michigan's roads are poor and 40% of Ohio's are just mediocre, I'll still take Ohio.

Perhaps unrelated, does anyone know of an unpaved road in Ohio?

[RO_Resident]

And you led your argument with a trip to Cedar Point a few years ago?

This is all well and good, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find an overwhelming number of people who have experience with both states agreeing with you. If that means 35% of Michigan's roads are poor and 40% of Ohio's are just mediocre, I'll still take Ohio.

Perhaps unrelated, does anyone know of an unpaved road in Ohio?

No, it started when I would go down to Monroe County to some pavement condition assessment. [[I guess the cat is out of the bag, I do pavement management as part of my day job.) When working in southern Monroe County, we will often go to Toledo or Lucas County for lunch.

When we would cross over the Ohio border, we would continue to perform the same ratings. Obviously, the ratings were informal, qualitative assessments. Wash, rinse, repeat over the course of a decade or so. It was hard to see a difference in the ratings on a lot of the surface streets between the two states.

A couple of years ago, I took the family to Cedar Point. Instead of taking the freeway and toll road, we went the back way.

Again, qualitatively, I saw the same sorts of problems on Ohio's roads--evidence of poor drainage, overloading, wheel-path cracking, and other defects. I also saw that Ohio was using chip seal more often than Michigan does.

Like I said, I know the Ohio sample [[either in Toledo/Lucas County or the trip to Cedar Point) is not random, and not likely to be representative of the whole state. However, it was enough of a sample to see that the roads deteriorate in a similar way to Michigan's roads.

[DetroitPlanner]

And you led your argument with a trip to Cedar Point a few years ago?

This is all well and good, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find an overwhelming number of people who have experience with both states agreeing with you. If that means 35% of Michigan's roads are poor and 40% of Ohio's are just mediocre, I'll still take Ohio.

Perhaps unrelated, does anyone know of an unpaved road in Ohio?

It could be that RO_Res did not stick to HWY 2 only to get to Cedar Point. There could also be a difference in the methodology used to conclude the # of roads under bad or poor condition.

[noise]

It could be that RO_Res did not stick to HWY 2 only to get to Cedar Point. There could also be a difference in the methodology used to conclude the # of roads under bad or poor condition.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

[noise]

ASCE crunches national numbers every year. Based on HPMS data, they find that--

• 38% of Michigan’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.
• 42% of Ohio’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.

Interestingly, you left out the more interesting parts of that report.

Michigan

Driving on roads in need of repair costs Michigan motorists $2.534 billion a year in extra vehicle repairs and operating costs – $357 per motorist.

38% of Michigan’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.

Michigan has 121,650 public road miles.

Michigan’s highway vehicle-miles traveled in 2009 was approximately 9,878 per capita, ranking it 31st in the nation.

Michigan’s gas tax of 38.7 cents per gallon has not been increased in 1 year.

Ohio

Driving on roads in need of repair costs Ohio motorists $1.685 million a year in extra vehicle repairs and operating costs – $212 per motorist.

42% of Ohio’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.

Ohio has 122,973 public road miles.

Ohio’s highway vehicle-miles traveled in 2009 was approximately 9,693 per capita, ranking it 33th in the nation.

Ohio’s gas tax of 28 cents per gallon has not been increased in 7 years.

[Honky Tonk]

Michigan’s gas tax of 38.7 cents per gallon has not been increased in 1 year.

Ohio

Ohio’s gas tax of 28 cents per gallon has not been increased in 7 years.

Sounds like a management problem.