Gilbert to widen 375 off-ramp

[Spartan]

The best part is somehow adding lanes to a road won't help traffic. I guess Ghettosuperstar over there can explain to me how fucked up Southfield road is every afternoon because they reduced lanes to 2 lanes in each direction instead of 3 to repair the intersection. All the roads should be 1 lane in each direction because adding lanes doesn't help traffic LOL.

Actually, most studies show that adding lanes rarely decreases traffic. If they add 50% more road space to the exit, 50% more people will use that exit. Obviously, it is somewhat situational, but there is no conclusive evidence that adding lanes reduces traffic flow in any way.

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-tr...nduced-demand/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2012...ic-congestion/

http://usa.streetsblog.org/2011/05/3...e-in-futility/

[Hermod]

Actually, most studies show that adding lanes rarely decreases traffic. If they add 50% more road space to the exit, 50% more people will use that exit. Obviously, it is somewhat situational, but there is no conclusive evidence that adding lanes reduces traffic flow in any way.

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-tr...nduced-demand/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2012...ic-congestion/

http://usa.streetsblog.org/2011/05/3...e-in-futility/

I don't know, this is anecdotal and based onluy on my own experience. I-95 narrowed from three lanes in each direction to two lanes a little south of Washington. I had to drive from Petersburg to the Washington area quite a lot [[Ft Lee to Ft Belvoir or another NOVA military destination). It was a royal PITA. They widened the road to three lanes in each direction from
Dale City south to Petersburg. It was still a PITA to drive, but was a lot more bearable.

[Spartan]

I don't know, this is anecdotal and based onluy on my own experience. I-95 narrowed from three lanes in each direction to two lanes a little south of Washington. I had to drive from Petersburg to the Washington area quite a lot [[Ft Lee to Ft Belvoir or another NOVA military destination). It was a royal PITA. They widened the road to three lanes in each direction from
Dale City south to Petersburg. It was still a PITA to drive, but was a lot more bearable.

Of course, there will be some variance and every situation is different. I don't know about the route you're referencing, but one factor is the availability of alternative routes. Obviously, if you're talking about a place that only has one or two options and a fairly steady traffic flow, adding extra lanes may indeed reduce traffic. A place like a downtown city where there are hundreds of roads and numerous exits that lead to the same place, you're likely to see much less variance. If you're legitimately seeing more people entering downtown to a breakpoint [[where the infrastructure is legitimately not built to handle it), then adding infrastructure will help. However, as has been mentioned, miles driven in the area is generally down, and Detroit surely does not lack roads. When M-1 rolls around, we'll see even less auto traffic.

It's quite possible that this will be a net-positive for the public, but I think the chances skew toward neutral at best. The main benefactor would likely be Gilbert/Greektown. Now, since they're paying for it and that area likely will need to be rebuilt anyway, I don't have a huge beef with it, but I do think it seems a bit short-sighted. One thing I do worry about is that it gives Gilbert & co. a reason to oppose "boulevarding" 375, which I am in favor of.

[Gpwrangler]

Actually, most studies show that adding lanes rarely decreases traffic. If they add 50% more road space to the exit, 50% more people will use that exit. Obviously, it is somewhat situational, but there is no conclusive evidence that adding lanes reduces traffic

Adding lanes increases capacity. Of course it doesn't decrease traffic volume. It's not intended to.

Freeways slow low down when people merge. Being able to pass slow traffic is key, especially when merging traffic is not attempting to get up to speed with the freeway.
As long as we have enough lanes to allow express traffic and proficient drivers to bypass the circus in the right two lanes we will be good.

[iheartthed]

Adding lanes increases capacity. Of course it doesn't decrease traffic volume. It's not intended to.

Freeways slow low down when people merge. Being able to pass slow traffic is key, especially when merging traffic is not attempting to get up to speed with the freeway.
As long as we have enough lanes to allow express traffic and proficient drivers to bypass the circus in the right two lanes we will be good.

The point is that if people weren't using the freeway before, because it took longer to use the freeway than it did another route, would now start to use the freeway.

This was an argument against the need to widen I-94. Surface streets parallel to I-94 are hardly ever prohibitively congested. Making I-94 wider will just suck more motorists off of Warren since the cost of waiting at traffic lights on Warren will be less than going over to I-94, speeding down the freeway for a couple of miles and the going back up to Warren.. So you have more people using it which will just recreate the problem that MDOT is spending millions to fix.

MDOT could make traffic flow more efficiently for a lot less money if they block some of the on and off ramps on I-94....

[DetroitPlanner]

MDOT could make traffic flow more efficiently for a lot less money if they block some of the on and off ramps on I-94....

Sure then folks needing it to travel to school, the emergency room, to work, or out for a day at the museums won't be able to get there. Accessibility is important to help keep all of these institutions going.

[iheartthed]

Sure then folks needing it to travel to school, the emergency room, to work, or out for a day at the museums won't be able to get there. Accessibility is important to help keep all of these institutions going.

They would just use the streets that have existed for over a century.

[DetroitPlanner]

They would just use the streets that have existed for over a century.

Well if age is your cop-out then we should include I-94. It is nearly 70 years old! It was built as part of the War effort and is a 1940 vintage road.

The point I was trying to make is that accessibility is important to businesses. If a business like Gilbert's sees an issue, and they have the funding to fix it, and the City/State agrees to the solution why not use their dollars?

[iheartthed]

The point I was trying to make is that accessibility is important to businesses. If a business like Gilbert's sees an issue, and they have the funding to fix it, and the City/State agrees to the solution why not use their dollars?

I understand why Gilbert wants to do that. I don't fault him at all for going to the state with the proposal. Looking at it from his perspective, I probably would have tried the same thing. But I'm not Gilbert. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a private citizen. From that perspective I don't think think this is a good precedent to set.

[Detroitnerd]

Well if age is your cop-out then we should include I-94. It is nearly 70 years old! It was built as part of the War effort and is a 1940 vintage road.

You should check your facts. The stretch MDOT wants to widen was built 1954-1958, not 1940.

[ghettopalmetto]

Sure then folks needing it to travel to school, the emergency room, to work, or out for a day at the museums won't be able to get there. Accessibility is important to help keep all of these institutions going.

This is why every business in the city needs its own on-and-off ramps, which connect directly to their attached parking garage. We can't have cars going all over the place willy-nilly causing all this congestion. People won't know where they're going if they have to travel at less than 70 mph.

And if you're walking, biking, or taking transit, eff you.

[Gpwrangler]

And if you're walking, biking, or taking transit, eff you.

I see one, maybe two bicycles during my commute. No lights, in the dark, rolling through red lights. And thousands of cars. I guess I get the sensitivity but geez...

[ghettopalmetto]

I see one, maybe two bicycles during my commute.

Maybe because the main roads in Detroit are all 8 lane highways with a 45 mph speed limit? Just a thought.

[Scottathew]

This is why every business in the city needs its own on-and-off ramps, which connect directly to their attached parking garage. We can't have cars going all over the place willy-nilly causing all this congestion. People won't know where they're going if they have to travel at less than 70 mph.

I know modifying the truth makes your case seem stronger...

The ramp will not go "directly" into one of Gilbert's properties. The ramp will go directly to the I-375 service drive and Monroe Street, not to one of Gilbert's business. Some of Gilbert's businesses happen to be located very close to the ramp, but the ramp wouldn't be exclusively for his own businesses.

Bottom line is that he's got a desirable destination and people want to get to it, whether it be for work or gambling. Existing infrastructure is causing unsafe backups onto a freeway. Widening an exit ramp will make things safer.

I don't foresee any major impacts to pedestrian traffic. The nearest pedestrian crossing on the service drive is at Monroe Street and is ALREADY three lanes wide, and will not be modified by the project.

[Honky Tonk]

This is why every business in the city needs its own on-and-off ramps, which connect directly to their attached parking garage. We can't have cars going all over the place willy-nilly causing all this congestion. People won't know where they're going if they have to travel at less than 70 mph.

And if you're walking, biking, or taking transit, eff you.

If Willy and Nilly can't make it to the casino to blow their money, then Unca Dan has no tax revenue to give Tricky Dick. Then Tricky Dick has to cut irrelevant programs like Rails to Trails, or State Parks or some other such nonsense. See how that works? So waddya say? Let Unca Dan build a better off ramp, so Willy and Nilly can enjoy what they like more frequently, and Honky Tonk can get home in reasonable time without going horse, screaming obscenities out the hooptie plastic window.

[Gistok]

The point is that if people weren't using the freeway before, because it took longer to use the freeway than it did another route, would now start to use the freeway.

This was an argument against the need to widen I-94. Surface streets parallel to I-94 are hardly ever prohibitively congested. Making I-94 wider will just suck more motorists off of Warren since the cost of waiting at traffic lights on Warren will be less than going over to I-94, speeding down the freeway for a couple of miles and the going back up to Warren.. So you have more people using it which will just recreate the problem that MDOT is spending millions to fix.

MDOT could make traffic flow more efficiently for a lot less money if they block some of the on and off ramps on I-94....

Um you missed the point that surface streets that run parallel to I-94 are virtually non-existent. No complete East/West thru street between I-94 and 7 Mile road to the north... and Warren is hardly a decent East/West street, what with all the one way parts and the brancing off of Eastbound route over to Forest Ave. That's a horrible East/West alternative to take. And points south of there, such as Mack/MLK Blvd are narrow, and south of that you get to the Fisher Fwy. and Vernor Hwy.

So I-94 acts as both a way to get thru the city... as well as a way to get from one part of the city to another part of the city. The alternate routes are more like a maze....