Big Brother is watching you -- New Security Cameras in Downtown Detroit

[wolverine]

Abuse is a valid issue. The best way to avoid abuse is disclosure. Allow citizens to see what's on the cameras. Go to the internet and see live what they are looking at -- with a 15 minute delay. You can spot abuse if its happening.

Not using a technology because abuse is possible is pretty stupid. Set reasonable rules. Create reasonable access to see if rules are being followed.

In a city like Detroit with crime as it is, I'll even take a small dose of abuse if it helps control crime. The important result is public safety and a vibrant city, done with large dose of freedom.

That's a serious risk. Footage can't be easily available to the public [[unless its an incident they were involved in). In this case, members of the public could do unimaginable harm compared to what government ever could. Just think of all the creepy stalkers or people that could manipulate footage and upload it to YouTube.

Access to these cameras should always require some sort of consent with a reason.

[Wesley Mouch]

That's a serious risk. Footage can't be easily available to the public [[unless its an incident they were involved in). In this case, members of the public could do unimaginable harm compared to what government ever could. Just think of all the creepy stalkers or people that could manipulate footage and upload it to YouTube.

Access to these cameras should always require some sort of consent with a reason.

I think you have it backwards. Why can't footage be easily available? Why wait for creepy stalkers? The city should upload it themselves -- with a decent delay, perhaps 24 hours or more. Or maybe a random delay so its harder to use. A face/body fuzzyout is a thought. Use the technology. What happens on public streets is already quite public. Making it a little bit more public will help.

[wolverine]

I think you have it backwards. Why can't footage be easily available? Why wait for creepy stalkers? The city should upload it themselves -- with a decent delay, perhaps 24 hours or more. Or maybe a random delay so its harder to use. A face/body fuzzyout is a thought. Use the technology. What happens on public streets is already quite public. Making it a little bit more public will help.

I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. First Gannon mentions that there could be abuse of the system. Yes, there is. it's happened with the occasional corrupt city employee that's [[attempted) to wipe out footage that became publicly available.

But now you are asking city government to actively manipulate live footage? Yes, delaying footage 24 hours and fuzzing out faces is altering footage. So what is it? First you advocate for transparency, now you want government to delay and alter live cameras feeds?

What's wrong with the current method of obtaining footage. You call the police department and ask for it. Cite a reason, they take down your name and send you an email with the link to footage in the time period requested.

I'm stumped by the fact that people on one hand are afraid of big brother watching street cameras....which they hardly have the resources to do, but are totally okay with a large population of people with a handful of creeps and thieves that could survey whenever a person leaves their home.

[Wesley Mouch]

I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. First Gannon mentions that there could be abuse of the system. Yes, there is. it's happened with the occasional corrupt city employee that's [[attempted) to wipe out footage that became publicly available.

But now you are asking city government to actively manipulate live footage? Yes, delaying footage 24 hours and fuzzing out faces is altering footage. So what is it? First you advocate for transparency, now you want government to delay and alter live cameras feeds?

What's wrong with the current method of obtaining footage. You call the police department and ask for it. Cite a reason, they take down your name and send you an email with the link to footage in the time period requested.

I'm stumped by the fact that people on one hand are afraid of big brother watching street cameras....which they hardly have the resources to do, but are totally okay with a large population of people with a handful of creeps and thieves that could survey whenever a person leaves their home.

I'm OK with the current method you describe as well. Delay and fuzzing out is not necessarily 'altering feeds'. If you're using black-box hardware intended for this purpose to do both these functions, there's no opportunity for 'manipulation'. Its is automated and dispassionate. Could a rogue employee 'break' the machine? Sure. They could just 'unplug' the machine. But a good, well-designed piece of hardware would give 99% of the result for 1% of the cost.

The exact methods aren't important. What's important is that the feeds are widely available with as little human intervention as possible.

Your method is OK, but I'm sure you see the opportunity for it to be manipulated. Oh, we don't have that footage. Oh, here's that footage, but its my version I created in my basement that doesn't show the cop beating the old lady.

[Gannon]

I'm only remembering the article from the Oakland Press. It was a while ago...but I can remember the household I was working in. Herb Misch's daughter and son-in-law...back when that great gent was still alive, which puts it prior to 2003.

The article said the police were aided by the traffic flow cameras on Rochester Road, and there was image recognition used to filter what was fed to them.

This was long before I'd gathered enough experience and data to become a dyed-in-the-koolaid Conspiracy Theorist...but I'd add this to a long list of things which have caused me to seriously doubt most official cover stories now.

And, just because someone can 'guarantee' that one series of installed devices isn't available for this sort of surveillance...doesn't mean they all are benign.

I can just as easily show one that has obvious extra-traffic purposes. Say...like this one at Warren and Dickerson. I pass it nearly every day. Today I stopped to take a few snapshots of it.



There IS a pan-n-tilt mechanism, and it is the only one at the intersection. Not even the busiest one around, either. This one always bugs me.


Cheers

[townonenorth]

I'm only remembering the article from the Oakland Press. It was a while ago...but I can remember the household I was working in. Herb Misch's daughter and son-in-law...back when that great gent was still alive, which puts it prior to 2003.

The article said the police were aided by the traffic flow cameras on Rochester Road, and there was image recognition used to filter what was fed to them.

This was long before I'd gathered enough experience and data to become a dyed-in-the-koolaid Conspiracy Theorist...but I'd add this to a long list of things which have caused me to seriously doubt most official cover stories now.

And, just because someone can 'guarantee' that one series of installed devices isn't available for this sort of surveillance...doesn't mean they all are benign.

I can just as easily show one that has obvious extra-traffic purposes. Say...like this one at Warren and Dickerson. I pass it nearly every day. Today I stopped to take a few snapshots of it.



There IS a pan-n-tilt mechanism, and it is the only one at the intersection. Not even the busiest one around, either. This one always bugs me.


Cheers

That's because it's there to track you, specifically. Why else would they put it there? You pass it every day, and they are logging your movements, obviously. i'd take another route if I were you.

[Gannon]

That's because it's there to track you, specifically. Why else would they put it there? You pass it every day, and they are logging your movements, obviously. i'd take another route if I were you.

Nice try. It is never facing the way I approach the intersection. When it moves as I make my way through, then I'll begin to be truly concerned. Then the games begin.



As for YOU, jtf, did you know one of our founding fathers had something specific to say about those like you?! You might want to pay attention to this.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin, 1755

That wisdom still applies. To you, and everyone who has been conditioned and programmed and worn down to accept the premise that anyone deserves to live in a police state.

Good luck with that.


Sincerely,
John

[MikeM]

I'm only remembering the article from the Oakland Press. It was a while ago...but I can remember the household I was working in. Herb Misch's daughter and son-in-law...back when that great gent was still alive, which puts it prior to 2003.

The article said the police were aided by the traffic flow cameras on Rochester Road, and there was image recognition used to filter what was fed to them.

This was long before I'd gathered enough experience and data to become a dyed-in-the-koolaid Conspiracy Theorist...but I'd add this to a long list of things which have caused me to seriously doubt most official cover stories now.

And, just because someone can 'guarantee' that one series of installed devices isn't available for this sort of surveillance...doesn't mean they all are benign.

I can just as easily show one that has obvious extra-traffic purposes. Say...like this one at Warren and Dickerson. I pass it nearly every day. Today I stopped to take a few snapshots of it.



There IS a pan-n-tilt mechanism, and it is the only one at the intersection. Not even the busiest one around, either. This one always bugs me.


Cheers

Those are visual cameras and I know Macomb County sheriffs can access them. Not sure about the other counties. There aren't many of them, though, compared to the traffic sensors in the picture I posted.

[Gannon]

Those are visual cameras and I know Macomb County sheriffs can access them. Not sure about the other counties. There aren't many of them, though, compared to the traffic sensors in the picture I posted.

Thanks, MikeM. I shudder to think of this being used by Hackel to track his political enemies, he is EXACTLY the type of megalomaniac who needs to be restricted from using this technology. Same with Napolean. Two of my favorite sheriff. Yeah, I know Hackel has gone up a notch...but he would still have access to this stuff.


The traffic sensing cameras use some form of capture, there are only so many ways to translate motion into electrical current useful for analysis in any shape. These sensors are usually in the form of a CCD chip, and software can use the output of it many ways. As long as there is a clear lens...there is NO telling what is behind it.

The whole system could be designed like our current internet/phone network nationwide, which has one apparent purpose to the public...yet another to those with the necessary security clearance to know. There is an entire parallel network which echoes the public digital traffic, and no reason why these systems cannot be made similarly.

In plain sight...this system has been introduced all over the country. Detroit is not the only town to have these cameras magically appear. They are largely not in the suburbs, though. I've read things about sophisticated cellular tracking systems as well, and always thought THAT was the reason for the phone giveaways during this administration.

All I'm saying is I've seen 'em go up, many in seemingly illogical places. In a land where there supposedly isn't any money to fund schools and other good societal programs...it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever that there can be monies available for this bullshit.

Unless there is some overall plan...and any consideration of such leads to very dark places indeed.



Honky Tonk, I keep telling you...aluminum foil doesn't do much at all. If you want true filtering, get you some vintage TIN foil...or invest in the real stuff, MU Metal. It seems to form better without rampant wrinkling, too. You'll be stylin' and profilin' in no time. Without that pesky cranial electromagnetic interference.


Cheers!

[Danny]

I have seen those new cameras. There are aslo well hidden ones, too. It will help catch all the yahoos runnning about in Downtown Detroit.