Detroit City Council set to vote on biggest land sale in city's history

[Shollin]

For a forum that promotes urban density you would think more people would be opposed to a farm opening up within the city. Of course the mantra is if city council opposes it, it must be good.

[Honky Tonk]

For a forum that promotes urban density you would think more people would be opposed to a farm opening up within the city. Of course the mantra is if city council opposes it, it must be good.

What would you do with it? Besides a handful of people living on that plot of land, NO ONE in decades has made a move to populate it, or do anything with it. Outside of the newly resurected "Midtown", everything in this area is going bust and belly-up. No cops, No DFD, No streetlights, where's the draw?

[Shollin]

What would you do with it? Besides a handful of people living on that plot of land, NO ONE in decades has made a move to populate it, or do anything with it. Outside of the newly resurected "Midtown", everything in this area is going bust and belly-up. No cops, No DFD, No streetlights, where's the draw?

Why does it have to be developed? Let it turn back to nature. make it a park. Is a farm really going to make the area more attractive? People would just steal the crops and livestock.

[Honky Tonk]

People would just steal the crops and livestock.

Ok, I see your point, and you're right. This is the problem I had with the rosy picture Mr. Vineyard was painting of plowing up land on Belle Isle. If you just leave fruit trees standing there, people will not only "take" fruit, but you're leaving it wide open to vandalization. So you're going to have to secure the area somehow. You're also going to need buildings for equipment and employees. On the flip side, Detroit is pretty cash strapped, so maybe an orchard in conjunction with some kind of learn to work program to generate revenue might NOT be such a bad idea. I even support the vineyard, I just don't want it on Belle Isle. Let Belle Isle become the nature center.

[LeannaM]

Ok, I see your point, and you're right. This is the problem I had with the rosy picture Mr. Vineyard was painting of plowing up land on Belle Isle. If you just leave fruit trees standing there, people will not only "take" fruit, but you're leaving it wide open to vandalization. So you're going to have to secure the area somehow. You're also going to need buildings for equipment and employees. On the flip side, Detroit is pretty cash strapped, so maybe an orchard in conjunction with some kind of learn to work program to generate revenue might NOT be such a bad idea. I even support the vineyard, I just don't want it on Belle Isle. Let Belle Isle become the nature center.

St. Patrick's Center in St. Louis has an urban farm as part of their program to get homeless people off the streets [[they also help get veterans and addicts). They have different types of programs to get people clean and back to work. It usually involves getting them housing and work and having them accountable to social workers.
http://www.stpatrickcenter.org/progr...ment-training/

This is the urban farm near Downtown.
http://www.stpatrickcenter.org/2012/...ds-urban-farm/

If the funding is there, Detroit could look into something like that. St. Patrick's Center gets half its funding from the government and the rest from donations. Does Detroit have charities or programs that do job training? It would cost more in the short term but might be beneficial in the long term.

[Gistok]

Why does it have to be developed? Let it turn back to nature. make it a park. Is a farm really going to make the area more attractive? People would just steal the crops and livestock.

Since you're still a relative newbie on this forum... perhaps this initiative from DYes forum member CUB [[called Georgia Street Community Garden) will show that while cars and household items get scrappers and thieves attention, gardening seems to get little or no attention among thieves....

http://georgiastreetgarden.blogspot.com/

[Shollin]

Since you're still a relative newbie on this forum... perhaps this initiative from DYes forum member CUB [[called Georgia Street Community Garden) will show that while cars and household items get scrappers and thieves attention, gardening seems to get little or no attention among thieves....

http://georgiastreetgarden.blogspot.com/

My aunt lives at Warren and Chalmers and has annexed some vacant lots for her garden and ocassionally finds plants missing along with statues and even a small bench she put there. I have to imagine if you have a large scale, 170 acre farm, people will be stealing. They will need to install some sort of security. Most likely this farm will have some sort of fence and look rather ugly from the outside. Most likely peaking over the fence will be some industrial steal built barn.

[Honky Tonk]

My aunt lives at Warren and Chalmers and has annexed some vacant lots for her garden and ocassionally finds plants missing along with statues and even a small bench she put there. I have to imagine if you have a large scale, 170 acre farm, people will be stealing. They will need to install some sort of security. Most likely this farm will have some sort of fence and look rather ugly from the outside. Most likely peaking over the fence will be some industrial steal built barn.

You are right on all accounts, and yes there will be. But that's part of doing business. What's the difference between that and some factory stamping out parts? The necessary security fencing, or any of the proposed orchard doesn't have to look hideous, though. Look @ some of the more modern structures, the UAW Training Center for example. It's fenced, not bad looking.

[Danny]

No one is using that land for over 40 years. Let's put into good use. Urban farming to produce fruits and vegetables for the poor is a great ideal. It worked for Mayor Hazen Pingree when he gave potatoes and show them how to farm so that they can have more potatoes for life.

[Shollin]

You are right on all accounts, and yes there will be. But that's part of doing business. What's the difference between that and some factory stamping out parts? The necessary security fencing, or any of the proposed orchard doesn't have to look hideous, though. Look @ some of the more modern structures, the UAW Training Center for example. It's fenced, not bad looking.

I agree there is no difference between a farm and a factory. I would rather have a factory that would at least employee a couple hundred people at livable wages, however factories are taboo around these parts now.

[Lowell]

Why does it have to be developed? Let it turn back to nature. make it a park. Is a farm really going to make the area more attractive? People would just steal the crops and livestock.

If it is turned back to nature, the city still owns = no taxes and upkeep / liability costs continue.

Back to the issue at hand. I'm surprised no one on the council would say, "Okay let's sell that collection of plots, but let's auction it as awhole with the current conditions attached." Wouldn't that determine the true value? It would be a bit unfair to Hantz who did all the leg work but maybe it would stop their howling.

Or are they better to not risk getting a lower price at auction and take the $570K bird in the hand?

[michimoby]

Of course the mantra is if city council opposes it, it must be good.

It's true: a broken clock IS right twice per day, after all.

[DetroitPlanner]

For a forum that promotes urban density you would think more people would be opposed to a farm opening up within the city. Of course the mantra is if city council opposes it, it must be good.

The reality is that this land does exist. We are not suddenly going to have a million people moving into the City. Its best to have this being productive and producing taxes as opposed to being an eyesore. This is 170 less acres that the City would need to worry about for the time being and can then spend the time and effort trying to best improve and provide services for areas that are either now stable or on the fringe.

[Shollin]

The reality is that this land does exist. We are not suddenly going to have a million people moving into the City. Its best to have this being productive and producing taxes as opposed to being an eyesore. This is 170 less acres that the City would need to worry about for the time being and can then spend the time and effort trying to best improve and provide services for areas that are either now stable or on the fringe.

Why does the city need to worry about it? Let it turn to nature. Have some volunteers plant trees. Turn the streets into gravel streets. Apparently if someone comes along with a plan we just need to jump because they say so. I just don't see how a farm benefits anyone in the surrounding area.

[corktownyuppie]

For a forum that promotes urban density you would think more people would be opposed to a farm opening up within the city.

Greenspace creates density. If you have a room 40 people in it and then block off half the room with plants, the density will increase because the 40 people will be forced into a smaller space.

Why does the city need to worry about it? Let it turn to nature. Have some volunteers plant trees. Turn the streets into gravel streets. Apparently if someone comes along with a plan we just need to jump because they say so. I just don't see how a farm benefits anyone in the surrounding area.

Here's how a farm benefits:

- Money into the city coffers, which is in desperate need of around $10 million in the next 40 days.
- An acre of trees is nicer to look at than an acre of blight.
- Less need for fire and police support, which will allow them to focus their efforts in a more concentrated map.

I'm kind of excited for the bankruptcy judge, to be honest. If people are worried about the city "selling all of its jewels", just wait until the courts step in.

[DetroitPlanner]

[/I][/COLOR]
Greenspace creates density. If you have a room 40 people in it and then block off half the room with plants, the density will increase because the 40 people will be forced into a smaller space.



Here's how a farm benefits:

- Money into the city coffers, which is in desperate need of around $10 million in the next 40 days.
- An acre of trees is nicer to look at than an acre of blight.
- Less need for fire and police support, which will allow them to focus their efforts in a more concentrated map.

I'm kind of excited for the bankruptcy judge, to be honest. If people are worried about the city "selling all of its jewels", just wait until the courts step in.

Thanks CTY

[Shollin]

[/I][/COLOR]
Greenspace creates density. If you have a room 40 people in it and then block off half the room with plants, the density will increase because the 40 people will be forced into a smaller space.



Here's how a farm benefits:

- Money into the city coffers, which is in desperate need of around $10 million in the next 40 days.
- An acre of trees is nicer to look at than an acre of blight.
- Less need for fire and police support, which will allow them to focus their efforts in a more concentrated map.

I'm kind of excited for the bankruptcy judge, to be honest. If people are worried about the city "selling all of its jewels", just wait until the courts step in.

This wouldn't be greenspace that can be used by the community. It's for a farm that is looking to turn, I assume, a profit. The space is already empty pushing people to other neighborhoods. I can't imagine a fenced farm with the ungodly smell of livestock will make the area better

I stated to plant trees in the post you quoted

What services does vacant land need? Is the farm not going to need police protection that apparently vacant land needs?