New Arena could break ground by fall.

[Gistok]

How would that be any different from leaving the west Foxtown area as undeveloped? The entire process does NOT depend on what THEY WANT... but without Eminent Domain... it depends on which site has had the land needed all acquired. As we saw with the Riverfront Casino district... some speculators may be asking $20 million each for small parcels... which Ilitch will likely balk at.

[esp1986]

How would that be any different from leaving the west Foxtown area as undeveloped? The entire process does NOT depend on what THEY WANT... but without Eminent Domain... it depends on which site has had the land needed all acquired. As we saw with the Riverfront Casino district... some speculators may be asking $20 million each for small parcels... which Ilitch will likely balk at.

The good news is... while eminent domain is not possible at the city level, it IS possible at the county and state levels. This could be a big reason why the Ilitches are getting the state involved. The state can seize the land for the development without being subject to the law that Detroit voters passed.

That is the best case scenario, so we can have one cohesive development rather than a good development with a few oddball empty parking lots, whose owners held out for a windfall that never came then didn't have the capital to do anything on their own.

Based on the rumored prices of these properties, these owners won't get anywhere near that for a very long time. An arena will push the value up a bit, but it isn't likely to net them millions in three years so long as there are swaths of vacant land just a few blocks away.

[bailey]

The good news is... while eminent domain is not possible at the city level, it IS possible at the county and state levels. This could be a big reason why the Ilitches are getting the state involved. The state can seize the land for the development without being subject to the law that Detroit voters passed.

Emminent domain can not be used to benefit a private use as in with GM and Poletown.. There is nothing restricting a seizure [[after "proper" compensation) of property for public use or public necessity. I don't think there has been a challenge since the Sup Ct ruling regarding whether or not seizing property so a billionaire can house one of his hobby businesses is a "public use" or "public necessity".

[artds]

The good news is... while eminent domain is not possible at the city level, it IS possible at the county and state levels.

This is incorrect. Eminent domain is available to the city and state alike for public improvement projects. However, under Michigan law, land acquisitions for the benefit of private business owners, such as land acquisitions for stadium projects or manufacturing plants, no longer fall within this definition, regardless of the economic impact they will have on the community.

In other words, eminent domain will be in no way involved in construction of the new arena, aside from perhaps the acquisition of small amounts of private land for road widenings or security buffers around the stadium.

[Eber Brock Ward]

This is incorrect. Eminent domain is available to the city and state alike for public improvement projects. However, under Michigan law, land acquisitions for the benefit of private business owners, such as land acquisitions for stadium projects or manufacturing plants, no longer fall within this definition, regardless of the economic impact they will have on the community.

In other words, eminent domain will be in no way involved in construction of the new arena, aside from perhaps the acquisition of small amounts of private land for road widenings or security buffers around the stadium.

However, if the stadium is being acquired for a stadium authority or that MEDC sub-agency, it would be eminent domain by a public entity.

Food for thought, considering the Crain's article a week or two ago about potential State involvement.

[bailey]

However, if the stadium is being acquired for a stadium authority or that MEDC sub-agency, it would be eminent domain by a public entity.
.

That is the issue that hasn't been litigated. Poletown decision says govt can't take from private citizen and give to private entity, even if the justification is that there will be a public good derived.. jobs, tax revenue..etc.

In light of that ruling, I don't think it would be crazy to argue that using a govt agency to build and hold a stadium for 100% private usage by one tenant is any different from just giving it to the private entity.

[Eber Brock Ward]

That is the issue that hasn't been litigated. Poletown decision says govt can't take from private citizen and give to private entity, even if the justification is that there will be a public good derived.. jobs, tax revenue..etc.

In light of that ruling, I don't think it would be crazy to argue that using a govt agency to build and hold a stadium for 100% private usage by one tenant is any different from just giving it to the private entity.

I would encourage you to re-read the Hathcock decision again [[http://www.michbar.org/opinions/supr...3004/24048.pdf).

I haven't read it in years, but I do recall that ownership of the property was almost, but not quite, a dispositive fact. The court held that the condemnation passed test after test until it got to the public use test, and then focused heavily on the proposed transfer of the property to the public entities.

Who knows what would happen with the current composition of the court, of course, but a stadium authority/state-owned arena with a series of leases to the Wings, Olympia, the Pistons/Palace Sports[[?), various independent concert promoters/the circus/whatever, would almost certainly pass muster under a Hathcock-style interpretation of the law.

Almost certainly, though.

[emu steve]

How would that be any different from leaving the west Foxtown area as undeveloped? The entire process does NOT depend on what THEY WANT... but without Eminent Domain... it depends on which site has had the land needed all acquired. As we saw with the Riverfront Casino district... some speculators may be asking $20 million each for small parcels... which Ilitch will likely balk at.

Agree. You and I are in complete agreement.

IF the arena is located north of the Fisher then the area behind the Fox is very problematic for future development.

Who would build behind the Fox when there is some really sweet land between the Fisher and Temple which the Ilitches control.

[bailey]

How would that be any different from leaving the west Foxtown area as undeveloped? The entire process does NOT depend on what THEY WANT... but without Eminent Domain... it depends on which site has had the land needed all acquired. As we saw with the Riverfront Casino district... some speculators may be asking $20 million each for small parcels... which Ilitch will likely balk at.

I would think that at this point, the land is secured. Why would there be any announcement if it wasn't? It's not like Illitch hasn't had 30 years to assemble the parcels. and it's not like it's been a surprise that the Wings were going to leave JLA.

I think it comes down now to what the City/state taxpayer is going to swallow as far as reorienting street grids and infrastructure. In other words its going to come down to how much in tax payer subsidy can a billionare extract to get his stadium built and what that number means to his bottom line. If it works out better for it to be insanely located near the casino instead of on Woodward...it'll be over by the Casino. Nothing about this or anything else illitch does has anything do with what is best for Detroit. The fact that Detroit gets something out of it is merely an ancillary benefit.