What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

[ghettopalmetto]

"IF Ilitch agrees [[or was 'forced') to keep both buildings does he need to have his architects, engineers, etc. re-do their work? "

Wouldn't that require a MAJOR design change regarding the loading dock, parking deck, etc.?

I assume that would take months and change the design concept.

That's not the City of Detroit's problem now, is it? Olympia owns what--45 city blocks of vacant lot? And the approach to the loading dock just *has* to be placed in the path of an existing building?

These are the same people who are going to create all sorts of additional development, right? Mmmhmmm. Keep believing that.

[emu steve]

That's not the City of Detroit's problem now, is it? Olympia owns what--45 city blocks of vacant lot? And the approach to the loading dock just *has* to be placed in the path of an existing building?

These are the same people who are going to create all sorts of additional development, right? Mmmhmmm. Keep believing that.

What makes URBAN sports facilities so difficult is the amount of contiguous acreage they require.

Do remember, that this development needs what 12 [[hope I got that number correct) acres and MUST be contiguous, must work aesthetically, must be owned by the city/Ilitch, etc.

Where would YOU put the loading dock? Woodward/Henry? [[heaven's NO!!!!).

How about north of the arena? Yikes, that wouldn't be nice.

They did EXACTLY what they should have done: They start at Woodward and frontage there and designed back with parking deck/loading dock in the least conspicuous location. At the back.

Last time I checked there were THREE available frontages: Woodward/Henry, Woodward/Sproat [[or Sproat/Park), and Park Ave [[between Henry/Sproat).

I assume the grand design is for traffic on southbound Cass to turn onto Sproat [[or maybe even change the streets where Clifford/Cass come together at Sproat) and let traffic turn into the parking deck from Cass.

Sorry GP, I think the design is a VERY GOOD design esp. since this is an urban area [[and not some open field dozens of miles from the downtown).

[ghettopalmetto]

What makes URBAN sports facilities so difficult is the amount of contiguous acreage they require.

Do remember, that this development needs what 12 [[hope I got that number correct) acres and MUST be contiguous, must work aesthetically, must be owned by the city/Ilitch, etc.

Surely you don't mean to say that 45 city blocks of empty surface lots is insufficient acreage for an "urban" arena? Because that would mean you're deliberately ridiculous.

By comparison, Verizon Center in DC [[which, by the way, has a loading dock) takes up four city blocks, and when it was built, had a hell of a lot more buildings [[and a large subway station) adjacent to its site than Ilitch's Hockey Mall.

[emu steve]

Surely you don't mean to say that 45 city blocks of empty surface lots is insufficient acreage for an "urban" arena? Because that would mean you're deliberately ridiculous.

By comparison, Verizon Center in DC [[which, by the way, has a loading dock) takes up four city blocks, and when it was built, had a hell of a lot more buildings [[and a large subway station) adjacent to its site than Ilitch's Hockey Mall.

Straw man, Straw man, Straw man...

Of course it doesn't take 45 acres. And the visitors' locker room isn't going to behind the Fox and the loading dock at Henry and the Fisher and the ticket windows maybe near CoPa. [[I'm being sarcastic here).

The most important acreage are the 12 acres nearest to the arena.

Some of the other acreage have little value.

Verizon Center wasn't designed to be transformative [[although it turned out to be).

The arena project is designed to usher in Midtown 2.0 [[south of MLKjr/Mack) It is designed to be transformative for areas within say 1/2 mile of the arena. Ripple effects like dropping a big stone in water... Extends its effects toward CoPa and Grand Circus Park; West of Cass beyond Cass Park; some north of the arena, west of Woodward; and also east of Woodward in Brush Park.

Saving the two hotels and not doing the arena: Midtown 1.01

You decide what you want: Midtown 2.0 or Midtown 1.01

[gumby]

The arena project is designed to usher in Midtown 2.0 [[south of MLKjr/Mack) It is designed to be transformative for areas within say 1/2 mile of the arena. Ripple effects like dropping a big stone in water... Extends its effects toward CoPa and Grand Circus Park; West of Cass beyond Cass Park; some north of the arena, west of Woodward; and also east of Woodward in Brush Park.

Saving the two hotels and not doing the arena: Midtown 1.01

You decide what you want: Midtown 2.0 or Midtown 1.01

There is no reason they can't build the arena and save the hotels. It isn't all or nothing. I call BS on their argument that it is too close to the arena.

[ghettopalmetto]

Straw man, Straw man, Straw man...

Of course it doesn't take 45 acres. And the visitors' locker room isn't going to behind the Fox and the loading dock at Henry and the Fisher and the ticket windows maybe near CoPa. [[I'm being sarcastic here).

The most important acreage are the 12 acres nearest to the arena.

Some of the other acreage have little value.

Verizon Center wasn't designed to be transformative [[although it turned out to be).

The arena project is designed to usher in Midtown 2.0 [[south of MLKjr/Mack) It is designed to be transformative for areas within say 1/2 mile of the arena. Ripple effects like dropping a big stone in water... Extends its effects toward CoPa and Grand Circus Park; West of Cass beyond Cass Park; some north of the arena, west of Woodward; and also east of Woodward in Brush Park.

Saving the two hotels and not doing the arena: Midtown 1.01

You decide what you want: Midtown 2.0 or Midtown 1.01

So are you the marketing chief for Olympia Entertainment? Or are you just blowing smoke up our asses? Because nobody--and I mean NOBODY--who has ever designed a building would resort to the unsubstantiated, candy-coated sunshine-and-puppy-dogs language that you're using here. You're taking vaguely-defined concepts, and fine-tuning them with reckless abandon to make yourself look smart. You're not, at least not the realm of building design.

Some people who post here make their livings doing the things you only profess to know about. Jus sayin.

Even if it were possible to "design" a project to "transform" property within a 1/2-mile radius [[How does one do that, exactly? Do the project specifications call for New, Added Transformative Power?), then $600 million+ is a patent rip-off price. So which one is correct?

Maybe Olympia could TRANSFORM some of their dilapidated slums into inhabited, taxpaying properties before they TRANSFORM anything else into another one of their shit-tastic gravel lots.