Why is Detroit shrinking?

[nain rouge]

Also, I just want to restate that the factories were just part of the equation. Somehow the suburbs [[with a much greater overall population than Detroit) managed to do fairly well for decades after the riots. I'd argue it's because the suburbs saw more investment than Detroit. Now that you've all spent all this time arguing away the factories, let's you argue away the skyscrapers in Troy and Southfield, the state and federal tax dollars spent on infrastructural development for the suburbs, white flight, and etc.

[Hermod]

Also, I just want to restate that the factories were just part of the equation. Somehow the suburbs [[with a much greater overall population than Detroit) managed to do fairly well for decades after the riots. I'd argue it's because the suburbs saw more investment than Detroit. Now that you've all spent all this time arguing away the factories, let's you argue away the skyscrapers in Troy and Southfield, the state and federal tax dollars spent on infrastructural development for the suburbs, white flight, and etc.

What came first, the factories and office buildings or the infrastructure improvements?

[Mikeg]

Fair enough, but I was referring to the downfalls of building Detroit as a "urban suburb city" [[outside of the Midtown area) more than anything. When you quickly pack a large city full of single-family homes, it can become somewhat inflexible to future development. I believe there should have been a greater mixture of residential spaces. That said, I don't think the problem of space was insurmountable. Detroit was a humongous city.


And yes, as far as factories go, of course you must choose the most economically efficient design, even if it takes more space. But when I drive by Chrysler's Warren Stamping Plant - which I believe Hermod is referring to - I don't see how it couldn't have fit in Detroit. According to Chrysler, the Warren Stamping Plant only takes up 78 acres, which is 0.12 square miles [[if my math is correct). So, you're telling me there was no room within Detroit's 138 square miles of land for such a factory? Or is it that factory owners wanted to get out of Detroit for other reasons?

To understand how we got to where we are, you need to look at both the residential and industrial land use patterns that developed in Detroit over time. In the 1800s, industrial land uses originally were located on small individual parcels along the railroads and down by the river and wherever a landowner pleased - often in close quarters with nicer residential areas. As a result, when Detroit exploded as a manufacturing center in the late 1800s and early 1900s, the new industrial area leapfrogged the outer residential areas and located along the railroad belt line. The areas beyond the manufacturing/railroad beltway were eventually developed as residential in the 1920s, although in some areas it took 20+ years before the subdivisions were completely built-out. Therefore, when the next wave of industrial expansion to the north took place beginning in the late 1930s, it followed the railroads that paralleled Woodward, Mound and Groesbeck into Oakland and Macomb Counties.

There was no interest in tearing down existing industrial buildings to build new ones in their place because a) it was cheaper to build a greenfield plant, b) sometimes, their existing buildings were needed to continue making products until the new replacement products coming out of the new plants were available, c) the existing building could then always be repurposed for something else like warehousing.

In regards to the Chrysler Stamping plant at Nine Mile and Mound Roads, it was just one part of a 140 acre manufacturing complex that Chrysler built alongside the Michigan Central rail line to stamp and subassemble truck bodies on the same site as the painting and final assembly of the completed trucks. Chrysler was attempting to emulate the Ford Rouge operations so they could remain competitive through better logistics and lower costs.

There was even a Jones and Laughlin steel mill at the northeast of Eight Mile and Mound Roads [[although I can't confirm that they ever supplied steel to the nearby Chysler stamping plant). Eventually Chrysler acquired that steel plant parcel for further expansion of their truck plant complex. Over time, the size of the Dodge truck complex in Warren Twp. grew from about 140 acres in 1937 to the approx. 195 acres it occupies today.

So, back in 1937, where do you suppose that within the Detroit city limits you could find or accumulate 140 acres of industrially-zoned land that had both rail access and the potential for expansion onto an additional 55 acres of adjacent land?

[Wesley Mouch]

To understand how we got to where we are, you need to look at both the residential and industrial land use patterns that developed in Detroit over time. <snip>
So, back in 1937, where do you suppose that within the Detroit city limits you could find or accumulate 140 acres of industrially-zoned land that had both rail access and the potential for expansion onto an additional 55 acres of adjacent land?

On that subject, I recall that the much hated 'Poletown' plant for GM was a huge victory for Coleman Young. GM said they were leaving Detroit because there was no place to build the new 'superplant design' it wanted. All new GM plants were to meet new specs. I believe Lake Orion is also a 'superplant'. Coleman asked GM for a little time to see if he could pull together a parcel within the City of Detroit. GM agreed, since they knew it was impossible.

Well, ol' Coleman did it. He pulled together a giant parcel and kept the plant in Detroit.

Tell the story to support mikeg's point. Industrial manufacturing's land-use changed. That, along with some NIMBYism helped build the suburbs.