Where were you during the 1967 Detroit Riot?

Shollin · January-01-13, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by serpico

Show me another city besides Detroit [[in metro detroit area) with 300,000 jobs......
Most jobs are still within the city limits.
Yet this still does not answer my question why most whites fled Detroit but didnt in other major cities.....
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...-s-City-Limits

They did flee other cities. About every major city has seen a decline in white population.

Detroit also 6 times the population of the next closest city in the region yet only 3 times as many jobs and over 100,000 more non working residents than jobs.

serpico · January-01-13, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

They did flee other cities. About every major city has seen a decline in white population.

Detroit also 6 times the population of the next closest city in the region yet only 3 times as many jobs and over 100,000 more non working residents than jobs.

Detroit today is over 82% black.. no other large American city is even close to that number.. Detroit today is at best 7% white. ... Again show me another American city where the whites fled in such droves. ... Chicago with all its problems isnt anywhere near Detroit in white flight. I still cannot find a reason why white folk fled Detroit after 1967 yet remained for the most part in Chicago and other major northern cities after their riots.....

**LeannaM** · January-02-13, 12:06 AM

I don't know a lot about the Detroit riots, but they seem worse than any other cities' riots [[Watts was pretty bad, though).

Detroit also relied heavily on car manufacturing. Once that left, so did a lot of the jobs [[you guys know more about it than I do).

I'd say most major cities experienced White Flight in the 1950s and since. Some of it was due to racism I'm sure. Some of it was due to increased crime. It's really a vicious cycle. A bunch of citizens left, tax base eroded, schools and crime got worse. Then more people left and it's a downward spiral. Plus some employers moved to the suburbs. I think that Baby Boomer generation also wanted home ownership and their own space and security. They wanted suburbs for the most part.

Why has Detroit fared worse than most other cities? Well the bigger they are the harder the fall. Other cities have blight, but Detroit is just so large that it has a lot more blight to deal with [[and not much money to work with). Detroit had the riots, the White flight, and then losing manufacturing. I think a lot of factors just culminated in Detroit being in the bad shape it is now. Some would argue [[I don't know enough about it to say either way) that bad leadership exacerbated the problem.

As far as Chicago, I'm not sure why it fared better. It has apparently always been a pretty segregated city. Maybe Whites in the northern half didn't see reason to flee to the suburbs. Their economy might also be more diversified. Chicago is not really comparable to any of the smaller cities around it. Chicago is dealing with a big gang problem that seems to be worse than ever before [[if the news is correct).

St. Louis [[for example) didn't have race riots [[East St. Louis had race riots in 1917). It did have a lot of White flight, but still is about 42% White [[in the city, the metro is about 75% White). The city is segregated, not legally, but that's just the way it is. The North Side is mostly Black and has a lot of bad neighborhoods. The South Side is mostly White and has few bad neighborhoods. Its Downtown was a disaster area for many years [[escape from New York was filmed there in 1981), but starting around 1999 the Downtown area improved a lot. The city's biggest industries are finance, utilities/energy, medicine, beer, technology. It has a variety of industries.

Looking at it from an outsider's perspective, I think Detroit has suffered worse because of reliance on the auto industry and the riots [[and bad publicity). Those seem to be the major factors.

**Drexciya68** · January-02-13, 03:09 AM

My mom was pregnant with me at the time of the riots. We lived a block away from the Packard Plant on the East Side.

**1986Tbird** · January-02-13, 09:02 AM

I was nine years old and my family spent the summer visiting relatives in a tiny Northern Italian village with only one TV station. The riots were featured every day in living black-and-white. I'd never felt such embarrassment before, nor since, having to explain to my relatives why such a thing could happen.

**Smirnoff** · January-02-13, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by serpico

So why did most white folk leave? Were the white folk in Detroit more fearful than other whites living in Chicago, Philly or Milwaukee etc..? Riots occured in most northern cities during the late 60's early 70's but most white folk stayed put in other cities except Detroit.... Whites in Detroit fled unlike other whites in other cities....why??

Answer: Unsafe neighborhoods [[crime) & CAY!

Over 500k people of all ethnic groups moved-out during his reign.....and a "ton" of businesses. What happened to all of the retail stores that lined Grand River [[Sears, Federals, etc). Try ordering a pizza for home delivery, why not, we did back then.....?

**jiminnm** · January-02-13, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by serpico

So why did most white folk leave? Were the white folk in Detroit more fearful than other whites living in Chicago, Philly or Milwaukee etc..? Riots occured in most northern cities during the late 60's early 70's but most white folk stayed put in other cities except Detroit.... Whites in Detroit fled unlike other whites in other cities....why??

I can tell you why 5 white folk left.

The man who would later become my father in law owned a small hardware store on Grand River. During the riots, his place was cleaned out and burned. Within a few months, he and his family sold their house near Wyoming and Warren and moved the family and the business to Southfield.

**daveyarm** · January-02-13, 12:02 PM

I was in my new home in Novi, where I had recently moved after living my first 26 years in Detroit. I remained in the suburbs for the following 45 years, but always felt slightly guilty about leaving the city of my birth. I am happy to report that nine months ago I moved back to Downtown Detroit, and love it as much as I always did in my youth.

**krapug1** · January-02-13, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by lalynch

We were living in Summit, New Jersey. I was 7 years old. The focus there was the riots in Newark, NJ. I remember seeing the news reports on TV and being worried about my Dad who worked in Newark. After about that period, his office was moved to NYC.

As many know the Detroit and Newark riots were about 1 week apart from each other. In both cities the downtown areas were spared from major damage. However both downtown areas suffered a mortal blow from the riots in the form of all the offices and retail stores that started to flee either just after the riots, or when their leases came up.

By the mid-70's both downtown's saw a huge drop in their daytime "worker" population as companies moved their workforces to the suburbs.
Newark held onto it's last downtown department store [[Bamberger's/Macy's) longer than Detroit did, BUT in the last 10 years that Macys' was open [[1981 to 1991) it sold mostly clearance and cast off merchandise in a building that looked like a bank vault with all it's display windows closed up, and only 3 of it's 9 public entrance ways still in use.

I was 6 years old that summer and I still remember it well, too well.

Ken

serpico · January-02-13, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by daveyarm

I was in my new home in Novi, where I had recently moved after living my first 26 years in Detroit. I remained in the suburbs for the following 45 years, but always felt slightly guilty about leaving the city of my birth. I am happy to report that nine months ago I moved back to Downtown Detroit, and love it as much as I always did in my youth.

You've come full circle. We need more of you

**Smirnoff** · January-03-13, 03:15 PM

For those still asking why people left & continue to leave the city.....

Detroit News 01/03/2013: Last year was one of the bloodiest in Detroit’s history. Criminal homicides in the city in 2012 rose above the total number of homicides each year since 2008.

**nain rouge** · January-03-13, 05:30 PM

Daytime population change due to commuting: -659 [[-0.1%)

It's not that simple when it comes to Detroit. I think you have situation where there are more professional/highly-skilled jobs within Detroit than Detroiters are qualified for, and a relative lack of much-needed low-level/service industry jobs. So you have suburbanites streaming in for the higher paying jobs, and masses of Detroiters taking the bus out to the inner-ring suburbs to work in the many restaurants and retailers located on the main thoroughfares. "-659" doesn't accurately portray the situation.

**mauser** · January-03-13, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

Really? What other group rioted?

First person killed in the riot was a caucasian, who was suspected of stealing shoe laces from a merchant. [Detroit Almanac 2nd Edition ]

**PMP** · January-04-13, 03:46 PM

Nice shot of the building. We used to live above the bar! You are correct, that was a bank. We owned the property including the bank. We converted the bank which was empty to a banquet hall called: Ambassador Hall. We rented the building for various parties and banquets.

**Smirnoff** · January-04-13, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by PMP

Nice shot of the building. We used to live above the bar! You are correct, that was a bank. We owned the property including the bank. We converted the bank which was empty to a banquet hall called: Ambassador Hall. We rented the building for various parties and banquets.

Just curious, what year did your family move.....

**PMP** · January-05-13, 05:32 PM

We sold the business around 1978. The new owner Leroy Estrada bought the business and the buildings. They re opened as Leroy's U.S. Star Bar. When we were in business the area was solid with Star Tool & Die Company, US. Trucking Co., Risdon Creamery and International Sausage Company, not to mention Cadillac Motors and Fleetwood. as viable companies employing people in the area. Michigan Avenue from West Grand Blvd. to Old Tigers Stadium was quite a busy area, in fact from Wyoming to Downtown was a happening area! With these companies eventually going out of business, the area really changed. Luckily in the area there still two great Gems: Liles and Higrade's Delicatessan both on Michigan Avenue

**Smirnoff** · January-06-13, 12:18 PM

Many good friends of mine worked at Cadillac Clark St back in the 70's, one Friday after work they took me on a tour of local establishments, including your bar [[didn't it have an old jukebox?). Others included The Leprechaun on Junction, Frank's Bar [[can't remember street), & some bar I believe was on Scotten. Last call was at Stempien's Lounge on Martin before we headed home.....I think they are all closed now?

What was that 3-story building with the cone roof used for across the street from the bank, was it an apartment building?

**PMP** · January-11-13, 07:34 PM

No, it was Grossefield Insurance Company. It was in operation until the late 1960's. It then became vacant. Lately I have noticed new windows put in, but halted for some reason. Looks like plans for either lofts or apartments. One interesting note, Star Tool Property south of our old property which later became Hermes Automotive for a short while became warehousing for the film industry. They were utilizing the property to store props and film equipment I guess. Getting back to your comments, Stempiens was a popular water hole, there were a lot of great little gems back in the day. Brings back memories

**Stinger4me** · January-13-13, 10:00 AM

Serpico! I am not sure how old you are or where you were in the 70's in Detroit. Maybe you were asleep. I wonder if you ever spent much time in different parts of the city. Did you ever experience any crime first-hand? Know anyone who was mugged? Had your car stolen? Know anyone who was a victim of an armed robbery? Have you ever experienced those who were resentful that their entitlements were slow in arriving? Wake up and smell the roses or urban decay?

**PMP** · January-13-13, 10:40 AM

Yes, I have ben through other parts of the city. We were robbed first hand at gun point. that was over thirty five years ago. I hope you weren't sleeping, things have gotten progressively worse. That's why most of local businesses moved out. My question is, what is it going to take to get business back in these midtown areas of Detroit. I think you know the answer. Some areas like Mexican Town are thriving.

serpico · January-13-13, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Stinger4me

Serpico! I am not sure how old you are or where you were in the 70's in Detroit. Maybe you were asleep. I wonder if you ever spent much time in different parts of the city. Did you ever experience any crime first-hand? Know anyone who was mugged? Had your car stolen? Know anyone who was a victim of an armed robbery? Have you ever experienced those who were resentful that their entitlements were slow in arriving? Wake up and smell the roses or urban decay?

The only time Serpico had a gun put to his head in Detroit was in 1989 by Detroit's finest [[undercover). Serpico was born in Detroit on Kentucky Street. I often put the blame not on crack heads or thugs, but on those who fled Detroit in fear rather than fight back.. Serpico left the city for 15 years but am now in River Rouge. The city today, yes, is far too dangerous even for Serpico. Yes, I blame myself too, for not addressing the problems years ago. Having bikes stolen, lawn mowers gone,..on a monthly basis.. and just accepting this as "normal" contributed to the state of Detroit today. Private property needs to be respected but is treated as "fair game" by too many in Detroit. The loud obnoxious threatening voices to "burn the city down" are listened to far too often... Even the power house of Max Fisher in 1969 caved in to this nonsense....

**AUSSIE** · January-13-13, 10:19 PM

Of more concern is this:

Causes of the Detroit Riot
The origins of urban unrest in Detroit were rooted in a multitude of political, economic, and social factors including police abuse, lack of affordable housing, urban renewal projects, economic inequality, black militancy, and rapid demographic change.

What does that sound like.....

Cheers

serpico · January-13-13, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by AUSSIE

Of more concern is this:

Causes of the Detroit Riot
The origins of urban unrest in Detroit were rooted in a multitude of political, economic, and social factors including police abuse, lack of affordable housing, urban renewal projects, economic inequality, black militancy, and rapid demographic change.

What does that sound like.....

Cheers

Chicago bulldozed its rioted area in 1968 immediately. Detroit chose to hire "consultants" and "study" the effect for 40+ years instead of following the Chicago model.....
Detroit pandered to the extreme elements within its residents rather than ignoring them or locking them up. Detroit Judge Crockett flaunted the law by releasing dozens of police killers in 1969. Max Fisher stood by and allowed the demise of the city to take place in front of him.

**CassTechGrad** · January-14-13, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by AUSSIE

Of more concern is this:

Causes of the Detroit Riot
The origins of urban unrest in Detroit were rooted in a multitude of political, economic, and social factors including police abuse, lack of affordable housing, urban renewal projects, economic inequality, black militancy, and rapid demographic change.

What does that sound like.....

Cheers

So is this the revisionist history garbage that there’re teaching kids in school today? Every single thing mentioned on that list still exists now or has gotten worse since the riots. Any clear thinking person old enough like me to remember that period knows that compared to today in Detroit, 1968 has to be considered as “The good old days”!

**Vitalis** · January-14-13, 09:50 PM

I was 15 that summer, and was pretty much glued to Channel 7 from our very fine family home in Grandmont, watching Jim Herrington and Bill Bonds tell all. The riot area seemed very far away from our neighborhood way out Grand River near the Southfield freeway. The parish of St Mary of Redford was my little piece of Detroit, except for when I escaped with friends by bus downtown to a ball game or a movie. I had grown up very sympathetic to the civil rights movement, but I was just as naive to the tension in the Detroit negro community as I was to the struggles in Memphis or Selma. And I was finally puzzled, and yes, disappointed, and embarrassed by what had happened in my own city that summer.