Renisha McBride shot in Dearborn Hgts. while seeking help - 2nd Degree Murder charged

[noise]

Never in my life have I seen so many people come together to defend a "super" drunk UNDERAGE driver [[which puts her at about 11x the 0.02 legal limit). I also didn't know "I was confused and disoriented" is a valid excuse for running from the police after you commit a couple of felonies.

As for the shooting, I wasn't there so I won't begin to casually speculate like all of you are so eager to do.

That's because you, like many here, are confusing issues and victim-blaming. It's sad.

The deceased woman may have committed crimes. But she is deceased and none of them matter at this point.

What does matter is that she was killed while on a stranger's porch. The homeowner apparently claims it was an accident. That's the issue here. Nothing else.

[Scottathew]

Never in my life have I seen so many people come together to defend a "super" drunk UNDERAGE driver [[which puts her at about 11x the 0.02 legal limit). I also didn't know "I was confused and disoriented" is a valid excuse for running from the police after you commit a couple of felonies.

As for the shooting, I wasn't there so I won't begin to casually speculate like all of you are so eager to do.

You're very eager to speculate about the young, dead woman, but not willing to speculate about the person who admittedly accidentally killed someone?

The big issue here is that someone was killed\murdered.

Yes, the young woman was in the wrong, she shouldn't have been drunk and high, she shouldn't have been driving, she shouldn't have fled the scene.

However, those crimes all pale in comparison to shooting an unarmed woman through a locked door, even if you say it was an "accident".

[greekt0wn]

That's because you, like many here, are confusing issues and victim-blaming. It's sad.

The deceased woman may have committed crimes. But she is deceased and none of them matter at this point.

What does matter is that she was killed while on a stranger's porch. The homeowner apparently claims it was an accident. That's the issue here. Nothing else.

"May have committed crimes"? No, she did commit crimes and then ran from the police.

With the benefit of retrospect, the only thing we know about that porch incident is that a drunk woman who was fleeing from the police expected a stranger to let her into his home at 4:00a. It's good to see this forum is full of humanitarians that would have opened their home to a felonious damsel in distress. Oh, I forgot all he had to do was call 9-1-1 for her and leave her on the porch and sit patiently for the police to arrive. You know, because thugs never kick down doors in Detroit, shoot you, steal your things and leave in your car. The police arrive to find your corpse.

[greekt0wn]

You're very eager to speculate about the young, dead woman

Speculate? She was high and wasted. Fact. She was 11x the underage drinking limit. Fact. She crashed and disabled her car. Fact. She refused help at the scene, twice. Fact. She chose to run from the police. Fact.

At the porch: A guy shot a girl at 4:00a. Fact. She was shot in the fact. Fact. No other details avail at this time.

[MizMotown]

Sad all the way around. Whether he over-reacted and believed to be in danger I would think that most homeowners would announce that they have a gun and the police have been called, especially if you heard someone banging or knocking on your door first. This guy messed up and unfortunately a life was lost no matter what led to the circumstances.

[bailey]

Speculate? She was high and wasted. Fact. She was 11x the underage drinking limit. Fact. She crashed and disabled her car. Fact. She refused help at the scene, twice. Fact. She chose to run from the police. Fact.

Fact. no crime she committed gave rise to a justifiable use of deadly force.

At the porch: A guy shot a girl at 4:00a. Fact. She was shot in the fact. Fact. No other details avail at this time.

No, there are facts available at this time. they are as follows:


the door was locked and closed. there was no damage to the door indicating an attempt at forced entry. he shot her through a closed storm door after unlocking and opening the interior door. he did not call 911 until after he shot her in the face.

[greekt0wn]

I'm going to go bang on doors in Detroit this weekend at 4:00a. Over/under 3 houses before I'm shot? The D has been a war zone for 50 years and you guys expect homeowners in or near the D to provide help to bonkers strangers at 4:00a? When SECONDS matter, you want homeowners to rely on the police? The same police that IGNORED the initial 9-1-1 call of a drunk motorist crashing her car? How many seconds does it take for a few goons to kick your door in and shoot you? Oh, I forgot he's in his enclave of white wealth...you know, in his $35,000 home that is sandwiched by two of the most violent towns in America [[Detroit & Inkster). Colors don't matter here. I wouldn't fault any of you for blowing away some nut job on your porch at 4:00a, accident or otherwise. Everyone in and around the D is justified in their paranoia. McBride wasn't a Girl Scout, she was a grown woman fleeing felonies she just committed.

[bailey]

I'm going to go bang on doors in Detroit this weekend at 4:00a. Over/under 3 houses before I'm shot? The D has been a war zone for 50 years and you guys expect homeowners in or near the D to provide help to bonkers strangers at 4:00a? When SECONDS matter, you want homeowners to rely on the police? The same police that IGNORED the initial 9-1-1 call of a drunk motorist crashing her car? How many seconds does it take for a few goons to kick your door in and shoot you? Oh, I forgot he's in his enclave of white wealth...you know, in his $35,000 home that is sandwiched by two of the most violent towns in America [[Detroit & Inkster). Colors don't matter here. I wouldn't fault any of you for blowing away some nut job on your porch at 4:00a, accident or otherwise. Everyone in and around the D is justified in their paranoia. McBride wasn't a Girl Scout, she was a grown woman fleeing felonies she just committed.

This was not Detroit, DHPD was at his home within 2 minutes of his call and he was armed. DPD and DHPD are not the same entities.

He, like you, apparently thought someone knocking on his door and an inconvenient hour is cause for the justified use of deadly force.

He, like you, is wrong.

He [[baring proof she was about to or had gained unlawful entry into his home and he was in fear of harm or death) should be found guilty of at least manslaughter.

[noise]

"May have committed crimes"? No, she did commit crimes and then ran from the police.

With the benefit of retrospect, the only thing we know about that porch incident is that a drunk woman who was fleeing from the police expected a stranger to let her into his home at 4:00a. It's good to see this forum is full of humanitarians that would have opened their home to a felonious damsel in distress. Oh, I forgot all he had to do was call 9-1-1 for her and leave her on the porch and sit patiently for the police to arrive. You know, because thugs never kick down doors in Detroit, shoot you, steal your things and leave in your car. The police arrive to find your corpse.

Unless somebody else was driving and she was forced to drink & smoke. But proving this doesn't matter at all. You continue to miss the point and be a victim-blaming buffoon.

A woman who has not been proven to be committing any wrongdoing at the time of her death was accidentally killed. That's the situation. That's what we're dealing with.

The earlier incidents play no part in this. I won't blame Obamacare on that ant you killed when you were 5.

[greekt0wn]

This was not Detroit, DHPD was at his home within 2 minutes of his call and he was armed. DPD and DHPD are not the same entities.

He, like you, apparently thought someone knocking on his door and an inconvenient hour is cause for the justified use of deadly force.

He, like you, is wrong.

He [[baring proof she was about to or had gained unlawful entry into his home and he was in fear of harm or death) should be found guilty of at least manslaughter.

We only know in retrospect how quickly DHPD would arrive. How would you react when faced with what you presume to be a threat at your front door? Did he know he wouldn't be dead before they would arrive? I expect the intellectuals in bubbles like Lake Forest or the Upper East Side to talk about how irrational his paranoia was, but anyone living in SE Michigan knows that being the victim of violent crime is a very real everyday threat.

[bailey]

Did he know it would only take 2 minutes for DHPD to arrive? Did he know he wouldn't be dead before they would arrive? I expect the intellectuals in Lake Forest or the Upper East Side to talk about how irrational his paranoia was, but anyone living in SE Michigan knows that being the victim of violent crime is a very real everyday threat.

No. Being a victim of random violent crime in NOT a real everyday threat for "anyone living in SE Michigan". I live in SE Michigan and as close to Detroit as this guy... I, in no way, live in daily fear of being a victim of violent crime. You are irrational. This guy killed someone without cause. He will go to jail.

[noise]

I wouldn't fault any of you for blowing away some nut job on your porch at 4:00a, accident or otherwise.

That about sums it up. We have a RAMBO on our hands. Reason will not work.

[noise]

We only know in retrospect how quickly DHPD would arrive. How would yo react when faced with what you presume to be a threat at your front door? Did he know he wouldn't be dead before they would arrive? I expect the intellectuals in bubbles like Lake Forest or the Upper East Side to talk about how irrational his paranoia was, but anyone living in SE Michigan knows that being the victim of violent crime is a very real everyday threat.

Do you know that the guy in the hallway won't come in and kill you right now? You'd better run out there and take care of business!

[Zacha341]

A very crucial point indeed...

A woman who has not been proven to be committing any wrongdoing at the time of her death was accidentally killed. That's the situation. That's what we're dealing with.

[corktownyuppie]

We only know in retrospect how quickly DHPD would arrive. How would yo react when faced with what you presume to be a threat at your front door?

DPHD?

I'll tell you how I would have reacted.

- I would have grabbed my shotgun.
- I would hid my family somewhere safe with me in front of them.
- I would have called 911.
- And if someone broke into the house, I would have shot them.

That, I believe, would be considered a rational, reasonable response.

What would you have done?

[greekt0wn]

DPHD?

I'll tell you how I would have reacted.

- I would have grabbed my shotgun.
- I would hid my family somewhere safe with me in front of them.
- I would have called 911.
- And if someone broke into the house, I would have shot them.

That, I believe, would be considered a rational, reasonable response.

What would you have done?

Don't know. I'm not going to play Monday morning QB to a guy that was in fear of his life at 4:00a when some drunk felon running from police banged on his door. For all he knew this was a ruse to get him to open up and her cousins were lurking, ready to strong arm their way into the home. For all he knew the police would arrive after him and his mother were shot dead, as he lives in the shadow of two of America's murder capitals.

[bailey]

Don't know. I'm not going to play Monday morning QB to a guy that was in fear of his life at 4:00a when some drunk felon running from police banged on his door. For all he knew this was a ruse to get him to open up and her cousins were lurking, ready to strong arm their way into the home. For all he knew the police would arrive after him and his mother were shot dead, as he lives in the shadow of two of America's murder capitals.

Um.. easy solution? DON'T OPEN THE DOOR.

[greekt0wn]

That about sums it up. We have a RAMBO on our hands. Reason will not work.

Reason doesn't work on race hustlers who promote fallacies, acting as if there hasn't been an improvement in race relations in 60 years and that completely baseless lack of improvement is to blame for their lack of success in life. All I read in this thread is a bunch of conjecture from either race hustlers eager to fan the malcontents, or bitter people unhappy with their life. Fixating that anger on a homeowner that happens to be white and girl running from police that happens to be black, as it if symbolizes why your life is marred with a lack of success in life. SEE, WHITE PEOPLE ARE HOLDING US DOWN. THEY KILL US WHEN THEY GET THE CHANCE! You guys need help. All of this energy on this, but avoiding discussion on why this guy was in such fear BECAUSE HE HAS TO LIVE IN BETWEEN TWO OF THE MOST VIOLENT TOWNS IN AMERICA, where black men are robbing and killing hundreds of people each year.

[greekt0wn]

Um.. easy solution? DON'T OPEN THE DOOR.

Nobody has ever kicked down a door before. Automatic assault rifles are avail for $300 on the streets of Detroit and Inkster, no match for his shotgun.

[noise]

Reason doesn't work on race hustlers who promote fallacies, acting as if there hasn't been an improvement in race relations in 60 years and that completely baseless lack of improvement is to blame for their lack of success in life. All I read in this thread is a bunch of conjecture from either race hustlers eager to fan the malcontents, or bitter people unhappy with their life. Fixating that anger on a homeowner that happens to be white and girl running from police that happens to be black, as it if symbolizes why your life is marred with a lack of success in life. SEE, WHITE PEOPLE ARE HOLDING US DOWN. THEY KILL US WHEN THEY GET THE CHANCE! You guys need help. All of this energy on this, but avoiding discussion on why this guy was in such fear BECAUSE HE HAS TO LIVE IN BETWEEN TWO OF THE MOST VIOLENT TOWNS IN AMERICA, where black men are robbing and killing hundreds of people each year.

Despite all of this nonsense you posted, you can't just kill whomever you please. You can't kill somebody for simply being in your porch.

You keep missing the point: a woman who has not been proven to be committing any wrongdoing at the time of her death was accidentally killed.

THAT is the situation.

But it's clear to EVERYONE here that, since you created your account yesterday, you're nothing more than a racebaiter.

[corktownyuppie]

Nobody has ever kicked down a door before. Automatic assault rifles are avail for $300 on the streets of Detroit and Inkster, no match for his shotgun.

I can understand your concerns.

But you don't just get to have your concerns in a vacuum. If I look out my window and see 3 people walking up to my door in an unsafe neighborhood, I can just pull out my sniper rifle and take them out one at a time out of fear that those 3 were just doing recon for an army of 10 robbers all armed with automatic weapons?

So I won't argue against your reasoning, it would be pure speculation.

The law states that the shooter now requires an affirmative defense to show that his actions were based on a fear which demonstrate reasonable threat that his life was in danger.

You think she demonstrated a reasonable threat. I don't.

But the nail in the coffin was his testimony that it was "an accident". By saying it was an accident, you are saying that it was not your intent to shoot. And if it wasn't his intent to shoot, you throw away the self-defense argument at the same time.

"I didn't mean to shoot him, but if I did shoot him, it was only because I felt threatened. But, of course, not so threatened that I actually intended to shoot him."

WTF?

I hope this goes to court and goes all the way to a jury trial. I just don't see this guy walking away unless there are other facts that need to come to light.

[noise]

But the nail in the coffin was his testimony that it was "an accident". By saying it was an accident, you are saying that it was not your intent to shoot. And if it wasn't his intent to shoot, you throw away the self-defense argument at the same time.

This is exactly right. I'd be speculating whether or not she did pose a threat had the shooter himself not claimed it was an accident.

[Wesley Mouch]

This is exactly right. I'd be speculating whether or not she did pose a threat had the shooter himself not claimed it was an accident.

Bear in mind that the shooters early exclamations of 'accident' or 'self defense' are mostly 'noise'. Presumably, part of the argument is going to be that the shooter was confused, disoriented, and frightened for his life. Thus, his statement that it was an 'accident' tosses nothing out the door. I think he can still claim whatever he wants -- and let a jury decide if he's innocent or guilty.

[cramerro]

Nobody has ever kicked down a door before. Automatic assault rifles are avail for $300 on the streets of Detroit and Inkster, no match for his shotgun.

Even so, why would you open the door? What if there are two other friends in the bushes that jump up after you shoot her and let you have it? Really? You're worried about AKs at the door so that makes it smart to open up and unload your shotgun into their face? I see a lot of self-preservation... err I mean self-defense... "experts" here that I wouldn't trust to keep me safe.

[Scottathew]

How would you react when faced with what you presume to be a threat at your front door?

If I presumed a threat at my front door I wouldn't open it. I would call the police.

If the presumption of threat happened AFTER I opened the door, I would then close it. I would call the police.

In this scenario there is NO REASON to discharge a firearm. Not too many people are defending this woman and her poor choices. I don't understand why folks want to defend the poor choices of the man that killed a person for no reason, without cause.