Iliches trying to fleece us for another $800 million.

[Richard]

My posts are long enough,how long do you think they would be if I started to list every single program involved using local,state and federal incentives and how each one applies to credits and what one can do with them and which ones can be sold and which ones cannot be.

You mention brownfield credits,that is only one layer of the multiple layers used in these projects.

When they post the total IE: $800 million,that is not $800 million cut from one check,that is multiple sources from multiple incentive programs combined into one number.

I went through it all with Packard years ago,I could have leveraged $5m for 3m in brownfield and cashed out the brownfield day one.

I am not injecting too much misinformation,there is not enough posting space to explain it all in detail,so I am posting the jist of it,that’s why you hire somebody to figure it all out because with all of the layers and each one has its specific parameters.

People keep saying that I am posting misinformation and tax credits cannot be sold

Reverse engineer

Business and individuals may be able to reduce their federal and state tax burdens and while also supporting certain historic, cultural, and community-driven causes by purchasing tax credits.
Many states, as well as the federal government, provide tax credits for certain investments in historic rehabilitation projects, low-income housing, film production, and other activities that spur economic growth and innovation, expand employment, and support progressive initiatives. These credits can be purchased by taxpayers to reduce tax rates in 30+ states and through select federal programs.
https://www.mossadams.com/services/a...le-tax-credits

There is an entire industry that deals specifically with buying and selling tax credits

http://www.etaxcreditexchange.com/

The feds even sell them

The Inflation Reduction Act addresses climate change by allowing renewable energy tax credits to be transferred between companies. The tax credit incentive is an attempt to attract more capital for renewable energy projects, granting developers cash to construct their projects and leading to profits for the corporation purchasing the credit.


With transferrable tax credits, the Inflation Reduction Act could attract more corporate interest in the renewable energy realm. Developers sell the tax credits at a discount, meaning corporations save money on their taxes.

Jorge Medina, an attorney who focuses on tax aspects of renewable energy projects and transactions, told Newsweek that, for example, if a developer sold a $30 tax credit for $26, the corporation could use that credit on their tax bill and profit $4.

https://www.newsweek.com/new-climate...redits-1742970

For something that others are claiming cannot be done,it is being done and has been done for years.

Like I posted,we do not know if this deal involves transferable tax credits or non transferable credits.

Why would they make them transferable if the intent was to not provide the company receiving them the ability to transfer them ?

They do not transfer them to another company because they are nice guys,they transfer them into cash.

Thats how places like refineries can exceed the pollution levels,because they buy clean energy tax credits from companies that have them left over because they fall below the guidelines and use those purchases in order to offset the fines,it’s allowed because they do not want to shut the refineries down and the feds collects millions in fines at little cost to the refineries.

So it is punishing them for not being in compliance but on the other hand giving them an out so they can exist.

That’s just one little tiny window into tax credits.

The information is out there on how the financing was structured for the purchase and renovation of the Book Cadillac,tax credits and the ability to cash them out played a big role in making that deal come together.

One can call that a success story,because it got done.

But there is a lot of abuse in all of that,just ask the small southern town where they put up millions in tax credits and incentives so a rail company out of Canada could build a rail car manufacturing facility,even had Kahn and associates do what they do best and design it.

Opening day came,1100 plus employees showed up for their first day on the job only to find chains on the doors,the company just walked away.

Taxpayers got left with holding the bag with no recourse.

That was 10 years ago,even today mention tax credits and you would be lucky to get out of town alive.

Look at the huge solar factories that got billions in credits and closed their doors,somebody made bank on the sale of those energy credits.

When used properly and under the watchful eye of those putting up the money,the taxpayers,they can provide really good results,but if you want to make a ton of money fast with no accountability,learn how to play the tax credit game.

When people look at these old buildings in Detroit and say - that building is not worth fixing,it’s the tax credits and incentives that bridge that gap of it not being worth fixing,their use makes up for that shortfall.

They play a massive role in Detroit,more so then other cities and the taxpayers have every right to scrutinize and dissect every single transaction,because they are the ones that are liable for the debt even more so when it comes to this stuff where it is easy to game the system.

Cut me a check for $800m,I will bring a project to Detroit tomorrow that provides 2500 good paying jobs and start throwing down tracks ,but I already learned,that is only reserved for the select few.

[Henry Whalley]

I am not injecting too much misinformation...

tldr

[swingline]

My posts are long enough,how long do you think they would be if I started to list every single program involved using local,state and federal incentives and how each one applies to credits and what one can do with them and which ones can be sold and which ones cannot be.

You mention brownfield credits,that is only one layer of the multiple layers used in these projects.

When they post the total IE: $800 million,that is not $800 million cut from one check,that is multiple sources from multiple incentive programs combined into one number.

I went through it all with Packard years ago,I could have leveraged $5m for 3m in brownfield and cashed out the brownfield day one.

I am not injecting too much misinformation,there is not enough posting space to explain it all in detail,so I am posting the jist of it,that’s why you hire somebody to figure it all out because with all of the layers and each one has its specific parameters.

People keep saying that I am posting misinformation and tax credits cannot be sold

Reverse engineer

Business and individuals may be able to reduce their federal and state tax burdens and while also supporting certain historic, cultural, and community-driven causes by purchasing tax credits.
Many states, as well as the federal government, provide tax credits for certain investments in historic rehabilitation projects, low-income housing, film production, and other activities that spur economic growth and innovation, expand employment, and support progressive initiatives. These credits can be purchased by taxpayers to reduce tax rates in 30+ states and through select federal programs.
https://www.mossadams.com/services/a...le-tax-credits

There is an entire industry that deals specifically with buying and selling tax credits

http://www.etaxcreditexchange.com/

The feds even sell them

The Inflation Reduction Act addresses climate change by allowing renewable energy tax credits to be transferred between companies. The tax credit incentive is an attempt to attract more capital for renewable energy projects, granting developers cash to construct their projects and leading to profits for the corporation purchasing the credit.


With transferrable tax credits, the Inflation Reduction Act could attract more corporate interest in the renewable energy realm. Developers sell the tax credits at a discount, meaning corporations save money on their taxes.

Jorge Medina, an attorney who focuses on tax aspects of renewable energy projects and transactions, told Newsweek that, for example, if a developer sold a $30 tax credit for $26, the corporation could use that credit on their tax bill and profit $4.

https://www.newsweek.com/new-climate...redits-1742970

For something that others are claiming cannot be done,it is being done and has been done for years.

Like I posted,we do not know if this deal involves transferable tax credits or non transferable credits.

Why would they make them transferable if the intent was to not provide the company receiving them the ability to transfer them ?

They do not transfer them to another company because they are nice guys,they transfer them into cash.

Thats how places like refineries can exceed the pollution levels,because they buy clean energy tax credits from companies that have them left over because they fall below the guidelines and use those purchases in order to offset the fines,it’s allowed because they do not want to shut the refineries down and the feds collects millions in fines at little cost to the refineries.

So it is punishing them for not being in compliance but on the other hand giving them an out so they can exist.

That’s just one little tiny window into tax credits.

The information is out there on how the financing was structured for the purchase and renovation of the Book Cadillac,tax credits and the ability to cash them out played a big role in making that deal come together.

One can call that a success story,because it got done.

But there is a lot of abuse in all of that,just ask the small southern town where they put up millions in tax credits and incentives so a rail company out of Canada could build a rail car manufacturing facility,even had Kahn and associates do what they do best and design it.

Opening day came,1100 plus employees showed up for their first day on the job only to find chains on the doors,the company just walked away.

Taxpayers got left with holding the bag with no recourse.

That was 10 years ago,even today mention tax credits and you would be lucky to get out of town alive.

Look at the huge solar factories that got billions in credits and closed their doors,somebody made bank on the sale of those energy credits.

When used properly and under the watchful eye of those putting up the money,the taxpayers,they can provide really good results,but if you want to make a ton of money fast with no accountability,learn how to play the tax credit game.

When people look at these old buildings in Detroit and say - that building is not worth fixing,it’s the tax credits and incentives that bridge that gap of it not being worth fixing,their use makes up for that shortfall.

They play a massive role in Detroit,more so then other cities and the taxpayers have every right to scrutinize and dissect every single transaction,because they are the ones that are liable for the debt even more so when it comes to this stuff where it is easy to game the system.

Cut me a check for $800m,I will bring a project to Detroit tomorrow that provides 2500 good paying jobs and start throwing down tracks ,but I already learned,that is only reserved for the select few.

There is no dispute that some public incentive programs involve credits that can be sold in order to immediately obtain funding during a project’s construction phase. I believe that the old Michigan Brownfield tax credit program allowed for just such a monetization of transferrable credits that could be used to offset the Single Business Tax incurred by Michigan corporations. Your Packard Plant reference may have involved that program. But that program sunset several years ago. In your post you seem to object to these tax credit programs as insufficiently protective of the bargain that the public will get something in exchange for the tax credits being handed out.

The point of my earlier post was that these kinds of tax credit programs, whatever their merit, are not involved with the District Detroit incentives. The TBP is a variant of TIF financed incentives. It is not a tax credit scheme that, in your words, will allow Ilitch and Ross to “cash out.” It has countless protections statutorily built in to ensure that developers follow through with promises before any reimbursements occur. The TBP is not some public boondoggle that will finance more Ilitch surface parking lots instead of the mixed use stuff described in their proposal. As I said before, whether the public will get the best “value” for its “investment” is certainly open for good faith debate but properly administered, the District Detroit plan should not become some kind of lucrative developer bait and switch.