I wish these leaders would wake up

**Papasito** · November-15-09, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by MCP-001

I can safely say that they'll be disappointed at the assistance they'll get from us after that occurs.

Probably wont be anything left there to assist

ccbatson · November-15-09, 03:48 PM

Lormaxx, the USSR wasn't thinking in terms of saving Cuba, they were interested in the big picture...world domination via communism.

**elganned** · November-16-09, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by maxx

And how old were you back then? Do you still think the USSR ever considered risking their homeland for Cuba in the 1960's?

I was old enough to think maybe we made a big mistake not building that fallout shelter in the back yard.

And if you read any of the information that has come out in the last 5-6 years about that time, you'll realize just how close to Armageddon we really were. We [[the public) knew it was tense, but we [[thankfully) had no idea just how tense.

The Russians weren't thinking in terms of "our homeland for Cuba"; they were thinking, "If we back down, we lose face and influence around the world." It is telling that in one of the conversations that happened in the Kremlin the proposal was put forward for a total blockade of Berlin in response to the blockade of Cuba. Does that sound to you like someone was looking for a way out of the confrontation?

Desperate men do desperate things, not always for rational reasons.

**Sstashmoo** · November-16-09, 04:47 PM

I remember the Cuban missile crisis as well. Was too young to really know what was happening, just remember everyone was really tense about it. Grown men wondering if they would be called back in. Some just back from Korea, and some had served in ww2 [[My Dad).

Although, Ive never really understood our outrage of missiles in Cuba while we have missiles in Europe.

**d.mcc** · November-16-09, 04:50 PM

Kinda makes you glad we had an intelligent president in the White House focused on difusing the situation, as opposed to listening to all the Hawks telling him to fire the missles...

ccbatson · November-16-09, 07:16 PM

JFK was rather hawkish himself truth be told. Today he would be about where McCain is politically.

Stosh · November-16-09, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

JFK was rather hawkish himself truth be told. Today he would be about where McCain is politically.

McCain is an asshat.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-16-09, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

JFK was rather hawkish himself truth be told. Today he would be about where McCain is politically.

Another bald-faced lie. McCain would have dismissed the Apollo program as "pork-barrel spending". And the Peace Corps? Liberal hippie gibberish.

ccbatson · November-17-09, 05:31 PM

Apollo? We were discussing war/national defense, not space exploration.

**d.mcc** · November-17-09, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

JFK was rather hawkish himself truth be told. Today he would be about where McCain is politically.

Care to back up your claims?

ccbatson · November-18-09, 09:26 PM

You are just askin for repeated smack downs tonight d.mcc are you ready again?

http://www.history.com/video.do?name...aidlink=1&vid=

**elganned** · November-19-09, 08:07 AM

JFK was not nearly as liberal as many suppose. He only appears so at this remove by contrast with the conservatives of his day.

ccbatson · November-19-09, 09:55 PM

Thank you for conceding that I was right Elganned...Where is D.mcc?

**Detroitej72** · November-20-09, 09:18 AM

People like Bats would have called Kennedy a liberal, as long as they saw a "D" next to his name.

**elganned** · November-20-09, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Thank you for conceding that I was right Elganned...Where is D.mcc?

*sigh* One only concedes when one is contesting the assertion and is proven wrong. Since I've never claimed a viewpoint contrary to yours RE: JFK, there's nothing to concede.

Get over yourself, Cc. Not everything is a competition.

**elganned** · November-20-09, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

People like Bats would have called Kennedy a liberal, as long as they saw a "D" next to his name.

...that is, when he wasn't calling him a socialist facist...

**d.mcc** · November-20-09, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by elganned

...that is, when he wasn't calling him a socialist facist...

Kennedy was a liberal. I give to you, one of my favorite Kennedy quotes:

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

**elganned** · November-20-09, 03:52 PM

I'll reword it: He was a liberal, but much more hawkish than many believe. After all, he was the one who started the whole mess in Vietnam, and he sponsored the Bay of Pigs invasion.

ccbatson · November-20-09, 05:11 PM

Hawkish on war...otherwise, by today's standards, a moderate liberal.

**d.mcc** · November-20-09, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by elganned

I'll reword it: He was a liberal, but much more hawkish than many believe. After all, he was the one who started the whole mess in Vietnam, and he sponsored the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Vietnam... I think you mean Eisenhower, as most of the basis for the Cluster Effing happened during his presidency with the help of McNamara

ccbatson · November-20-09, 11:13 PM

Holy moley...did Elganned just get a second item right in one day?

**elganned** · November-21-09, 03:45 PM

d.mcc, I think the name you're looking for is John Foster Dulles, Secretary of State under Eisenhower; McNamara was Sec. of Defense under Kennedy.

Yes, Dulles set up the mess when he abbrogated the partition referendum. But it was Kennedy who decided to send "advisors" over there, and Johnson who decided to expand it into a full-blown military commitment--something I'm not sure Kennedy would have done, if he'd lived. But that's just speculation on my part.