Interstate 375 to be transformed into street level boulevard

[southen]

Should people now be prosecuted for the sins of the past[[whether it be through taxes or cutting them from bidding on property) for people of the past? No that’s retarded stop treating people with kid gloves because of the color of their skin. Christ…

Always the sign of intelligence when someone uses the word retarded.

Like a stone tossed into a pond the ripple effects of the sins of our past still impact people today. There should be attempts made to rectify those things. The debate should be of "How?" and not if we should. I-375 deliberately targeted and destroyed a thriving African American enclave, yet nothing should be done to acknowledge that going forward? We aren't going back to slavery, there are people alive today who were impacted by this policy then.

Christ....

[Seven&wyo]

Always the sign of intelligence when someone uses the word retarded.

Like a stone tossed into a pond the ripple effects of the sins of our past still impact people today. There should be attempts made to rectify those things. The debate should be of "How?" and not if we should. I-375 deliberately targeted and destroyed a thriving African American enclave, yet nothing should be done to acknowledge that going forward? We aren't going back to slavery, there are people alive today who were impacted by this policy then.

Christ....

Yes but where does that end and where does it begin? Should we go back to see which tribes African Americans are from to decide which deserve more “attention”? No. Should we help the Italians and polish and Irish for being discriminated against in the early 1900’s? No. should Africans[[because people like you group an entire continent of people into one group) repay Europeans for enslaving them at one point in history? No. No one today has been impacted by by the freeway expansion they’re all dead or very old and have moved on and their families have moved on as well assuming they were effected at all. My good man you have to think harder or else I might have to call you a retard.

[southen]

Yes but where does that end and where does it begin? Should we go back to see which tribes African Americans are from to decide which deserve more “attention”? No. Should we help the Italians and polish and Irish for being discriminated against in the early 1900’s? No. should Africans[[because people like you group an entire continent of people into one group) repay Europeans for enslaving them at one point in history? No. No one today has been impacted by by the freeway expansion they’re all dead or very old and have moved on and their families have moved on as well assuming they were effected at all. My good man you have to think harder or else I might have to call you a retard.

Critical thinking isn''t really a strong suit for you I guess. I never said it was simple but when it comes to I-375 specifically it is a bit more cut and dry, but I suspect that is why you dragged Europe into it and every other conservative talking point to avoid the issue. This isn't to counter racism, this is to counter racist policies implemented by the government to deliberately destroy a black neighborhood. Wealth is passed along in this country via family businesses and home ownership, but you are telling me that a policy that targeted both of those things for a specific community has no lasting impact and nothing should be done to right that wrong?

[Seven&wyo]

Critical thinking isn''t really a strong suit for you I guess. I never said it was simple but when it comes to I-375 specifically it is a bit more cut and dry, but I suspect that is why you dragged Europe into it and every other conservative talking point to avoid the issue. This isn't to counter racism, this is to counter racist policies implemented by the government to deliberately destroy a black neighborhood. Wealth is passed along in this country via family businesses and home ownership, but you are telling me that a policy that targeted both of those things for a specific community has no lasting impact and nothing should be done to right that wrong?

Wow you just completely missed the point of what I was saying. Bravo.

[oladub]

I never said it was simple but when it comes to I-375 specifically it is a bit more cut and dry, but I suspect that is why you dragged Europe into it and every other conservative talking point to avoid the issue. This isn't to counter racism, this is to counter racist policies implemented by the government to deliberately destroy a black neighborhood. Wealth is passed along in this country via family businesses and home ownership, but you are telling me that a policy that targeted both of those things for a specific community has no lasting impact and nothing should be done to right that wrong?

In 1963, my step-mother's retired aunt was living on Evanston in Detroit and had to move because her house was condemned for I-94 a block away. So she moved in with us. At that time, It was all white east of Connors and so was Harper Woods, St. Clair Shores and Roseville. Yet the highway planners came through and targeted white housing and tore apart white neighborhoods in exactly the same way. Buttigieg is wasting money on the flakey premise that yesteryears' highway decisions were racist. The same money spent in any of those neighborhoods on education would have done more good. The expressways did hurt local store owners in both white and black neighborhoods but this is 60 years later. Those people are gone and neighborhoods have restructured themselves. Crossing a six lane road isn't going to be safer for children to cross than a pedestrian bridge. It isn't as if there isn't a shortage of vacant land already available to build all the things planned for this project.

This brings to mind FDR's investment in hydroelectric dams providing immediate employment. TVA dams, the Hoover Dam, and the Grand Coulee Dam have paid for themselves many times over and still provide inexpensive and clean electricity. Today's Democrats are tearing down FDR's hydro dams in the Pacific Northwest for rich anglers. I'm puzzled at whether destroying hydro electric dams or expressways is a more stupid reversion. This time its Democrats who are trying to bring back some idealized memories of the 50's.

[southen]

In 1963, my step-mother's retired aunt was living on Evanston in Detroit and had to move because her house was condemned for I-94 a block away. So she moved in with us. At that time, It was all white east of Connors and so was Harper Woods, St. Clair Shores and Roseville. Yet the highway planners came through and targeted white housing and tore apart white neighborhoods in exactly the same way. Buttigieg is wasting money on the flakey premise that yesteryears' highway decisions were racist. The same money spent in any of those neighborhoods on education would have done more good. The expressways did hurt local store owners in both white and black neighborhoods but this is 60 years later. Those people are gone and neighborhoods have restructured themselves. Crossing a six lane road isn't going to be safer for children to cross than a pedestrian bridge. It isn't as if there isn't a shortage of vacant land already available to build all the things planned for this project.

This brings to mind FDR's investment in hydroelectric dams providing immediate employment. TVA dams, the Hoover Dam, and the Grand Coulee Dam have paid for themselves many times over and still provide inexpensive and clean electricity. Today's Democrats are tearing down FDR's hydro dams in the Pacific Northwest for rich anglers. I'm puzzled at whether destroying hydro electric dams or expressways is a more stupid reversion. This time its Democrats who are trying to bring back some idealized memories of the 50's.

There are scholars who have written on this topic ad nauseam but you got an issue with Democrats so I guess it never happened.

[Seven&wyo]

There are scholars who have written on this topic ad nauseam but you got an issue with Democrats so I guess it never happened.

Aha “It’s been studied by scholars guys trust me” pathetic as usual.

[southen]

Aha “It’s been studied by scholars guys trust me” pathetic as usual.

From the "everyone did slavery and racism is over" guy? Yes. Pathetic. The right wing push back against academia and expertise is both hilarious and sad.

[oladub]

There are scholars who have written on this topic ad nauseam but you got an issue with Democrats so I guess it never happened.

Eminent domain often hurts but it does not hurt on the basis of melatonin levels. Roads are not racist. I wrote in my previous post that the same money spent on education would be a better investment.

Your unnamed "scholars" remind me of the experts who said tobacco was safe. Foreign Marxists can't even imagine stuff like this if they wanted to bring down this country. Spending millions of dollars trashing expensive infrastructure is not going to lead to bucolic scenes of smiling people wandering around or bicycling on trails that architect drawings show when they want to sell a project. There are already plenty of vacant areas in Detroit to build whatever. Put in a couple of more bridges to unite formerly joined neighborhoods if you wish if that's really the goal. How long will it take for even the fill to settle before new roads and buildings can be built there? Where is the fill coming from? If there are three lanes in each direction and sidewalks, the buildings on either side of the street will be at least 120' from each other; hardly a neighborhood concept; more like a few blocks of Gratiot. Suburban people won't want to use an expressway that winds up at a stoplight in a black neighborhood because of fear or racism so their destination will be cut off which brings us to another round of roads cutting neighborhoods off. This is so poorly thought out. There will be a lot of construction contracts moving dirt around and adding some buildings. Those contractors need to be generous with politicians who filled their wallets. Leave it to Democrats and we would all be in six inches of ruble.

I read the first three of those articles and was not impressed. As I recall, churches, housing and businesses were also torn down in white neighborhoods where expressways also split neighborhoods. the articles did not address that. Black people use expressways too. Expressways that have been in place up to 70 years are now part of the landscape and infrastructure. Filling them in, slowing traffic and having more dangerous, mile per mile, surface roads is not a step forward.

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...but you are telling me that a policy that targeted both of those things for a specific community has no lasting impact and nothing should be done to right that wrong?

Has lasting impact.
Seems like it was targeted.
Yep.
Nothing should be done? Well, not necessarily as part of this particular project. A successful I-375 benefits residents of Detroit. Restoring back to a street is 'something being done'.

The question is whether each and every project should be viewed as an opportunity to correct past wrongs. Or are other things that have been and are being done elsewhere are better state spending at this point.

If there are specific harms that were caused by the creation of I-375, I'm open to lawsuits and class action suits to get capital to those disadvantaged. But getting a good road is all that our highway departments should be doing right now.