Roosevelt Park Unification Project

**Meddle** · September-05-21, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Preserving a vista makes sense, but preserving the boulevard that splits the park in two for the sake of some "original vision" does not. I'd argue that a unified park with a vista would be far more striking and beautiful than what is currently there.

This would do both:

Originally Posted by Meddle

Leave the old street paved ... maybe with cobble stones to give it character and use it as a pedestrian mall or bazaar, maybe for festivals.

**EastsideAl** · September-05-21, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by bust

I suppose the original plan was to prioritize the view for those wealthy enough to possess the ultimate high tech status item of the day: a car. Maybe also the horse and buggy folks too. Wealthy people, either way.

The streetcar went there too. And train travel was certainly not meant just for wealthy folks, as it was the major means of mass inter-city travel in that time.

In fact, the 'city beautiful' movement, of which the MCS and the landscape around it was definitely a part, had as a major philosophical underpinning the concept of making beautiful landscapes and vistas and well-designed monumental buildings accessible to all classes of people.

**Satiricalivory** · September-05-21, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

As I said, I am not necessarily against a plan to turn that stretch of Vernor into a pedestrian walkway [[although, as I stated above, I hope some other way is cleared for traffic moving westbound onto Vernor). But I would certainly hope any plan to do that would preserve and respect Warren & Wetmore's and Reed & Stem's vision of a direct open visual vista leading to their station.

All the concepts of the renovated park have included a promenade in place of the road with a clear view of the station so I don't think you need to worry about that.

**Satiricalivory** · September-05-21, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

This would do both:

You absolutely cannot leave the road the way it is, that would be strange and janky. It has to be ripped out and replaced with a pedestrian walkway.

**Gistok** · September-05-21, 03:34 PM

Ya know what would be cool... if they moved the long neglected and vandalized Merrill Fountain to the end of the pedestrian walkway, on the station end of the walkway in front of the roadway that crosses the front of the station.

The fountain matches the Beaux Arts look of the station, and could enhance the vista, and get a long needed restoration that the city has no plans or money for doing. This would be the 3rd location for the fountain, that was first located in Campus Martius.

https://historicdetroit.org/gallerie...ountain-photos

**EastsideAl** · September-05-21, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Ya know what would be cool... if they moved the long neglected and vandalized Merrill Fountain to the end of the pedestrian walkway, on the station end of the walkway in front of the roadway that crosses the front of the station.

The fountain matches the Beaux Arts look of the station, and could enhance the vista, and get a long needed restoration that the city has no plans or money for doing. This would be the 3rd location for the fountain, that was first located in Campus Martius.

https://historicdetroit.org/gallerie...ountain-photos

It would also be a nice bit of historical irony, since the original reason given for moving the Merrill Fountain out of Campus Martius waaaay back when was to open the area up for auto traffic.

**masterblaster** · September-06-21, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Preserving a vista makes sense, but preserving the boulevard that splits the park in two for the sake of some "original vision" does not. I'd argue that a unified park with a vista would be far more striking and beautiful than what is currently there.

You and Meddle make a great point. The grand vista can be preserved with a wide tree-lined pedestrian pathway lined with trees, sort of like how Central Avenue on Belle Isle used to be:

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**masterblaster** · September-06-21, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Ya know what would be cool... if they moved the long neglected and vandalized Merrill Fountain to the end of the pedestrian walkway, on the station end of the walkway in front of the roadway that crosses the front of the station.

The fountain matches the Beaux Arts look of the station, and could enhance the vista, and get a long needed restoration that the city has no plans or money for doing. This would be the 3rd location for the fountain, that was first located in Campus Martius.

https://historicdetroit.org/gallerie...ountain-photos

Why are you always trying to get that fountain out of Palmer Park? Palmer Park and the outer part of Detroit deserves nice things too.

**Gistok** · September-06-21, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by masterblaster

Why are you always trying to get that fountain out of Palmer Park? Palmer Park and the outer part of Detroit deserves nice things too.

Did you look at how it has been vandalized and stripped of statuary and stone railings?
https://historicdetroit.org/gallerie...ountain-photos

Is there anyone alive today that even remembers when it was a running fountain in Palmer Park? I just want it saved from its' current "Ruin Porn" status... before it gets even more damaged and is beyond repair.

If the People for Palmer Park want to restore it, God bless 'em...
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...2OEUT-j8e8Iz6A

**royce** · September-10-21, 05:44 PM

Funny how the Public Works deputy director can't tell you the street that traffic will be rerouted to. It's 16th Street. Now as I said in the other thread, I hope Public Works adds appropriate signage along Michigan Avenue that directs you to the "new" Vernor Highway and Mexicantown. Also, since the park is getting added space with the closing of the Vernor lanes through the park, I would love to see some housing along 14th Street, starting across the street from the Roosevelt Hotel and heading south on 14th. It would be a minimal intrusion on the park and give the park needed residents who would make use of the park on a daily basis. That's my two cents.

**Gistok** · September-10-21, 06:20 PM

^Royce, if you mean on 14th St. facing the park... I agree. But not building along the park side. It would not look pleasant to have housing on the park side... the back of the housing units would look unsightly facing the park. Also the object is to maximize the park, not rob Peter to pay Paul and make it a zero end sum game for total park space.

Roosevelt Hotel rehab would be helped if it faces directly onto the refurbished park. I would love to see multi story residential buildings added along the Roosevelt Hotel side to give it a nice street wall facing the park.

**royce** · September-11-21, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

^Royce, if you mean on 14th St. facing the park... I agree. But not building along the park side. It would not look pleasant to have housing on the park side... the back of the housing units would look unsightly facing the park. Also the object is to maximize the park, not rob Peter to pay Paul and make it a zero end sum game for total park space.

Roosevelt Hotel rehab would be helped if it faces directly onto the refurbished park. I would love to see multi story residential buildings added along the Roosevelt Hotel side to give it a nice street wall facing the park.

I agree, Gistok. Before the closing of both lanes, I had suggested in the other thread that the southbound lanes through the park be closed and merged with the northbound lanes. That would add land to the park but also allow for residential development on the eastern part of the park along 14th because the new two-way lane road would become the new eastern border of the park.

Actually, under this scenario, you could even have room to build some residential that faced the park along the old northbound lane [[that would be the new two-way lane in this scenario). However, if both current lanes running through the park are closing, then it is more aesthetically pleasing to just have residential that faces the entire park. Closing those two lanes adds significant park space. I hope Public Works plans the new layout well. I agree with someone earlier who suggested that the view of MCD from Michigan Avenue should not be blocked with trees. That's my two cents.

**Gistok** · September-11-21, 01:18 PM

^ Agree Royce. At first I thought that maybe an "avenue of trees" on either side of the former roadway would be nice. But nature always seems to kill off a few, which would leave missing gaps. So maybe a clearing with an open glen towards MCS, but not an exact straight line of trees.

**JonWylie** · February-09-22, 05:12 PM

Presentation from the HDC Meeting

For some reason I can't post pictures right now so if anyone wants to screen grab from that presentation.

**southen** · February-09-22, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

Presentation from the HDC Meeting

For some reason I can't post pictures right now so if anyone wants to screen grab from that presentation.

i really wish Ford was taking the lead on the redesign. This looks like an updated version of current park that nobody uses. It’s going to be a lot of empty grassy areas and nothing of interest to keep you there. Ford could have lead a design competition like the Riverfront Conservancy did for west Riverfront, which produced a great design from a world renown firm. This looks like something done in house on the cheap.

**Satiricalivory** · February-09-22, 11:13 PM

Looks fantastic. Like how they reserved some lawn in front of the station for views.

**kuuma** · February-10-22, 10:15 AM

Overall it looks great, obviously a huge improvement.

The two things that stand out to me is that the circle and half-circle lawns they've marked as "event spaces" are... not really gonna be good for events. For concerts or shows they will have to trudge out platforming and scaffolds which is eventually just gonna wreck the lawns and make them look dumpy and muddy when there's no event.

They also don't seem to know what to do with the side space west of the main park. Why not partner with Assemble Sound, whose base is right there, to convert that block to their events space? Parking is already there to make load-ins easy.

**JonWylie** · February-10-22, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by kuuma

Overall it looks great, obviously a huge improvement.

The two things that stand out to me is that the circle and half-circle lawns they've marked as "event spaces" are... not really gonna be good for events. For concerts or shows they will have to trudge out platforming and scaffolds which is eventually just gonna wreck the lawns and make them look dumpy and muddy when there's no event.

They also don't seem to know what to do with the side space west of the main park. Why not partner with Assemble Sound, whose base is right there, to convert that block to their events space? Parking is already there to make load-ins easy.

Yeah I like that idea, they should definitely use that area for a specific purpose instead of just an extension of the park.

I'd also like to see some sort of statement piece. A fountain at the Michigan Ave entrance or some sort of high quality art piece. There's a way to make art and open space work and not just clutter the area like Hart Plaza.

**Gistok** · February-10-22, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

Yeah I like that idea, they should definitely use that area for a specific purpose instead of just an extension of the park.

I'd also like to see some sort of statement piece. A fountain at the Michigan Ave entrance or some sort of high quality art piece. There's a way to make art and open space work and not just clutter the area like Hart Plaza.

I think that they should move the "all the prominence of a roadsign" statue of Thaddeus Kosciuszko statue [a bicentennial gift to Detroit from Poland] from Michigan Avenue @ Lodge Fwy, to a prominent location for a statue... namely to the entrance plaza at MCS when they finish the new park layout.

As you mention JonWylie... the park screams for some kind of art installation... and just moving that statue down Michigan Ave to Roosevelt Park, would do both the statue and park entrance a great justice.

Also something better than 3 undersized slabs of cement as a plinth [which adds to the "roadsign" effect] would be nice to make the statue stand out more...

**JonWylie** · February-10-22, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I think that they should move the "all the prominence of a roadsign" statue of Thaddeus Kosciuszko statue [a bicentennial gift to Detroit from Poland] from Michigan Avenue @ Lodge Fwy, to a prominent location for a statue... namely to the entrance plaza at MCS when they finish the new park layout.

As you mention JonWylie... the park screams for some kind of art installation... and just moving that statue down Michigan Ave to Roosevelt Park, would do both the statue and park entrance a great justice.

Also something better than 3 undersized slabs of cement as a plinth [which adds to the "roadsign" effect] would be nice to make the statue stand out more...

I think that's an awesome idea! The only thing that would make it better is if there was something they could move there or build that would tie into the Irish heritage of the area.

**401don** · February-10-22, 02:54 PM

They might want to get some ideas from Gilbert's team as well. They seem to have good ideas for activating public spaces. I get this isn't supposed to be a playground but a combination of statues, fountains, flower beds, automotive art pieces, maybe a mirrored art piece such as at Millennium park in Chicago, large swing chairs, etc. would give the park some vitality and better represent the building it's surrounding.