Voter Fraud in Detroit?

[Zacha341]

Right ON!

Detroit, actions matter, not words. Pay attention to what matters. Some of you fall hard for bluster when it conforms to what you want to believe. Let's see where things stand in a year or two and we can compare facts, not lies, false equivalencies, and hyperbole.

[JonWylie]

Your notion that he spent most of his days playing golf during this crisis is ridiculous. I don’t think he played much golf at all this year until after the election. As far as not showing empathy, I have no idea exactly what you expected him to do.

He definitely played a lot of golf. He did take a break during March and April, but still played a heck of a lot.

https://trumpgolfcount.com/displayoutings

[Richard]

And if he went too left, those that are traditional Dems will complain. A Socialist WILL win in this country but it probably won't be within the next 15-20 years when the children of "the greatest generation" die out. To many grew up at the knee of WWII soldiers.

You seem to be under the impression that all of the younger generation embraces a socialist society,maybe because it is your click.

You are forgetting the massive amount of immigrants that migrated to this country escaping socialist dictatorships.They are of all age groups.

There is a large percentage of the younger generation that can actually think for themselves and do not need somebody to dictate to them on how to live their life.

You socialist dreamers have been a thorn in the side of this country sense day one,you have not been able to infect this country in over 200 years,the only reason you are tolerated is because while in this country you are guaranteed the same rights as everybody else.

So while you are hiding behind that and dreaming of the day when the boomers die off in order to enjoy the fruits of socialization,it’s not going to happen.

Even if it does,history proves that in all of the countries that turned socialist dictatorships,the ones that help the leaders obtain power,are the first ones that are eliminated first,so all of those who fought to implement it,never got to enjoy it from 6’ under.

Look at rocket man,he took out 1/2 his family,there are no boundaries or limits.

You help them gain power,you then know how to take that power away from them,so you become a threat to them,so they simply eliminate the threat.

[bust]

There have been some ridiculous statements here about the electoral college and voting.

The electoral college was a compromise forged to bring 13 separate effective Nations into one. It was a concession from northern [[soon-to-be) States, who held relatively few slaves, to southern States, where slaves greatly outnumbered the slaveholding population.

Under the Constitution, slaves could not vote. Neither could Native Americans. Neither many other ethnicities. Neither could women.

Based on the rules the "founding fathers" agreed would determine who could vote, the voting-eligible population in the North vastly outnumbered the voting-eligible population in the South. The economy in the North was more diversified around mercantilism and manufacturing, and oriented toward cities, whereas the South was mostly plantations worked by slaves and the economy centered around plantation owners.

So they came up with the electoral college, and agreed that even though they can't vote, each slave counts as 3/5 of a vote when determining how many electors each State brings to the electoral college. In other words, each slave served to amplify slaveholder votes by an additional 3/5. More slaves, more voting power. Only with this unfair voting power that greatly advantaged southern States did they agree to form a Union.

The United States was not set up as a democracy. That's a myth, or a lie, or propaganda [[you pick). The electoral system is rooted in slavery. It has always been an unfair concession to rural voters. It was a big step better than colonies subservient to a kingdom, but we've formed a much better democracy since then. We still have a ways to go.

And you see, it was rural southerners who wanted electoral power to be based on total population, not vote-eligible population. Even while it has been their intention since the beginning to suppress the non-white vote.

Pretty funny what convoluted arguments people come up with to defend this system.
How ironic they're so often the same ones who don't want non-citizens to count for the census.
And how sad when so-called "constitutionalists"/"originalists" like Supreme Court Justices Thomas and Barrett base their decisions on laws so flawed they were prevented from voting, let alone serving in government.

[Zacha341]

Compelling points there.

More than a few immigrants don't act right [[pun intended) as anticipated and assumed. Yet, are conservative from their own world view sans Trump or classical right wing branding. Beyond theory and academe they know the grit of what is coming!

They, like others who don't reflexively and obligatorily get in line are a problem for the far left to deal with. They can't ascribe them as white supremacists, etc. And while claiming to champion them full-out, against Trumps policies on immigration they're amiss to what do with/ handle/ manage them.

I guess tossing them into that vast basket of Trumpsters and MAGA's will do. It's such a great 'catch all' for other forms of excuse and dissention from the thier political play book of power and control!!

But wait! Can't do that as they are yet needed as allies!

You seem to be under the impression that all of the younger generation embraces a socialist society, maybe because it is your click.

You are forgetting the massive amount of immigrants that migrated to this country escaping socialist dictatorships. They are of all age groups.

There is a large percentage of the younger generation that can actually think for themselves and do not need somebody to dictate to them on how to live their life....

[jcole]

I don't know where you get the impression that I am in a younger generation "click", [[you mean clique BTW)but thanks.
My point was simply that many of the people that want more socialist policies are those that are under 50, not that EVERYONE under 50 is a socialist.
You do have a way of leaping to your own peculiar conclusions.

You seem to be under the impression that all of the younger generation embraces a socialist society,maybe because it is your click.

[Richard]

I don't know where you get the impression that I am in a younger generation "click", [[you mean clique BTW)but thanks.
My point was simply that many of the people that want more socialist policies are those that are under 50, not that EVERYONE under 50 is a socialist.
You do have a way of leaping to your own peculiar conclusions.

lol it appears that I do not hold exclusive rights leaping to conclusions.

I posted your click,as in birds of feather flock together,never posted anything about nor does it matter your age.

Look at Bernie,he is no spring chicken.

You were the one that posted the boomers as the only reason socialism has not taken hold.


And if he went too left, those that are traditional Dems will complain. A Socialist WILL win in this country but it probably won't be within the next 15-20 years when the children of "the greatest generation" die out. To many grew up at the knee of WWII soldiers.

That was your words correct? And you are mad because the traditional Dems will not allow the socialists to rule their party? Gee I wonder why they would do such a thing.

There is something wrong with ones thought pattern when nobody is buying what they are selling that they have to hijack a party by sneaking in the back door like a thief in the night.

If you follow the trends a majority of those young minds that are easily manipulated,once they get a real job,married have children,buy a house,are not so inclined to give up the dream that they worked hard for to that person with their hand out expecting half of it because they simply exist.

Sure you are hearing the loud ones the most but in a country of 325 million,they are only representative of a tiny amount of the lower drudges of our society.

[jcole]

And it is still "clique"

lol it appears that I do not hold exclusive rights leaping to conclusions.

I posted your click,as in birds of feather flock together,never posted anything about nor does it matter your age.

Look at Bernie,he is no spring chicken.

You were the one that posted the boomers as the only reason socialism has not taken hold.


And if he went too left, those that are traditional Dems will complain. A Socialist WILL win in this country but it probably won't be within the next 15-20 years when the children of "the greatest generation" die out. To many grew up at the knee of WWII soldiers.

That was your words correct? And you are mad because the traditional Dems will not allow the socialists to rule their party? Gee I wonder why they would do such a thing.

There is something wrong with ones thought pattern when nobody is buying what they are selling that they have to hijack a party by sneaking in the back door like a thief in the night.

If you follow the trends a majority of those young minds that are easily manipulated,once they get a real job,married have children,buy a house,are not so inclined to give up the dream that they worked hard for to that person with their hand out expecting half of it because they simply exist.

Sure you are hearing the loud ones the most but in a country of 325 million,they are only representative of a tiny amount of the lower drudges of our society.

[Meddle]

... maybe if they do yet another recount... Trump will ketchup....

The faster he recounts, the further behind he gets.

[mkd]

I don't know where you get the impression that I am in a younger generation "click", [[you mean clique BTW)but thanks.
My point was simply that many of the people that want more socialist policies are those that are under 50, not that EVERYONE under 50 is a socialist.
You do have a way of leaping to your own peculiar conclusions.

There's a quote I learned in econ.. something like "anyone who hasn't been a socialist before age 30 is heartless. Anyone who's still a socialist after age 30 is brainless".

As people get older, they realize that nothing has lifted more people out of poverty than capitalism has. The youth will always be more liberal.. but they too get older.

[Zacha341]

^ Also when you are older, and say find yourself along the lower to middle-range of the middle-class making 35 - 61K or say a year, struggling with a family, home, etc. and find YOUR wealth being redistributed, increasingly, not the Ev-e-ill rich as promised.

Nothing impacts them - they remain rich. Just you ever spiraling downward. And yet you cannot apply for any additional help, food stamps, etc. You make just enough to pay for everyone else, but increasingly not enough as your taxed more and more.

This is in part where the 'buyers' remorse starts to kick in!

[softailrider]

He definitely played a lot of golf. He did take a break during March and April, but still played a heck of a lot.

https://trumpgolfcount.com/displayoutings

You are quite correct sir, looks like he got in close to 40 rounds between mid March and the election. I still don’t think that’s “most of his days” but he did tee it up quite a bit.

It will be interesting to see how diligent Joe Biden is towards the job. One thing for sure, he doesn’t need the money either.

[Dumpling]

I was watching the testimony last night where a poll watcher saw a batch of mail in ballots From The Same Street with Sequential Ballot Numbers. Never would ballots mailed back to be counted come back in sequential order. This "malarkey" can only be made possible if ill intent was present in the counting process. The fix was in...

Well ahead of both the August primary and the November 2020
general election, the Detroit Elections Department mailed an
absentee ballot request form to voters. One could request
an absentee ballot for BOTH the primary and the general
election at the same time. So over a period of days, weeks,
months, the request forms trickled back in randomly, mailed
from God-Only-Knows-Where sometimes. Once the Elections
Department received a request, it would probably enter it
into a database, and hopefully by hand into the poll book for
that voter as well. If one did not receive a form one could
go online to request an absentee ballot.

It seems quite plausible for the Elections Department to, using
its database, mail out absentee ballots With Sequential
Ballot Numbers to all voters Living On The Same Street
on the day they finally mail them out to all of the voters who
had requested one up to then.

If a ballot were to become lost or spilled in the counting or
recounting process it could be restored to its place in a container
with similar ballot numbers.

Certainly there could have been ill intent along the way.

I personally don't sense ill intent in this but I can be wrong.
One has to present specific and solid evidence of ill intent
in order to convince me of it.

[Richard]

^ do you think it was plausible that everybody in that street placed the ballots in the mail on the same exact day?

The mail person then carefully placed the ballots in their box,then returned them to the postal sorting center,where they were dumped and sorted along with thousands of other ballots and pieces of mail,while staying in Oder along the whole way.

Then dumped into the ballot box that was carted to the TCF center,then dumped on a table,then collected by numerous poll workers while still staying in order?

The only way that may be plausible is if,somebody on that street went door to door and collected the completed ballots,wrapped the stack with a rubber band,carried it to the TCF center and handed it directly to the poll worker that was entering the information.

You could take any street in the city and do that with your own ballots filled out.

So somebody says who cares,not enough to alter the vote,maybe not in the presidential vote,but it sure would alter every other election in the city because sometimes all it takes is 5 votes to win.

Sometimes you have to shake the tree and see what falls out,if you do not you never know,and people are banking on,you never knowing.

You know what would have avoided all of this from the start,outside of they knew this was going to happen during the primaries and did nothing to correct it,if the poll workers at the TCF had allowed the Republican observers to do their job,there would have been little suspicion.

When you go that far out of your way,even breaking the law,to make sure somebody does not see what you are doing,you are going to draw suspicion.

Because you created it,a little late now to wonder why.

[Dumpling]

[[I've taken a few classes in probability and statistics but its
been a long while) It is possible , but very, very, very unlikely,
that everyone on the street mailed back their ballots on
the same exact day.

It is much more likely that the Elections Department received
absentee ballot requests starting within a day or so after the
official absentee ballot request forms were mailed out to each
and every voter. It is my recollection that request forms were
sent out well ahead of the August primary. One could request
an absentee ballot to be sent by mail for both the primary
election and the general election on that initial ballot request
form.

Once again, to each and every voter [[though possibly not
ones already on record as having requested a ballot), additional
absentee ballot request forms were sent out after the August
primary, but before the November general election. One could
only request an absentee ballot for the general election as the
primary was past. Probably the vast majority of absentee voters
obtained their absentee ballots by mail after returning the request
forms that had been sent to them by the Elections Department.

I am NOT IN ANY WAY a subject matter expert on ballot printing.
But in general, it might be expected that a quantity of ballots
somewhat larger than the expected maximum number of voters
would be printed and processed. Each ballot printed would get
a sequential number, most likely in order. The numbering of
ballots at the time they are printed is not something I am at
all familiar with but it is a good guess that the ballot numbers
are sequential in some recognizable fashion.

So if a city has 1,000 voters and a typical presidential election
turnout of more than eighty percent, at least 1,000 ballots would
be printed for the elections department for the presidential
election for that city and the ballots might be numbered from
0001 to 1000.

So far so good?

[Dumpling]

For a city as large as Detroit, it is probably better
to contract with a specialized print shop [[or have one
in-house) to use an automated process to collate voter
address labels, outer envelopes, secrecy envelopes,
and numbered ballots.

If you picture this process, you only have to imagine that
the address labels are being printed out at the specialty
printers in poll book street address order, and that the
ballots will not be shuffled randomly before being placed
for processing, and then the result is that all of the voters
on the same street who requested an absentee ballot will
receive them with sequential ballot numbers.

It could be preplanned or it could just be an artifact of
the ballot printing and envelope processing ahead of mailing
the absentee ballots to voters that requested them.

[Richard]

Back during the Bush/Gore election Florida was the laughingstock of the country.

So what happened,they sat down and figured it out and created a secure election system that installed confidence within the public again.

When Obama won x 2 we did not jump up and call fraud,when Trump won in 2016 it was not Florida democrats claiming that he stole the election or the Russians were hiding in the bushes.

What I am seeing now in other cities and states is the exact same thing that happened in Florida back then before they straightened it out.

So how did they straighten it out,and for those parroting there is no evidence of fraud or you need evidence of fraud to come to a conclusion.

That is not correct,as mentioned before

The United States Constitution directs that the laws in each state concerning elections are put in place by the state legislature,no other governing or judicial authority has the power to implement any other laws or changes in the laws without direct state legislature approval.

The state legislature creates and adjusts the laws in order to create a secure voting system and laws that have checks and balances and requirements.

A violation of those laws by any precinct does compromise the election and is grounds for action.

The violation in it self is the proof.

For example,when the poll workers were ejected from the TCF center,that was a direct violation of the law set by the state of Michigan legislature,and by definition is grounds to nullify the election.

The law is clear,to provide oversight a member from both parties are allowed excess to observe the poll process and question things that do not appear up to par.

The reason for allowing both parties to have excess to the process is to remove doubt that it was a free and fair election.

That is why that is a law.

When you remove one part of that equation,you have removed the transparency and have raised doubt.

Every election law passed is done so in order to have redundant systems in place so there is no election integrity questioning or doubt in the system.

This is what Georgia found out tonight,they have enough direct evidence through both testimony and video that clearly proves that the state of Georgia laws governing elections were in fact blatantly broken,that is sufficient to overturn the results and call for a re-vote.

But here is the catch,they have a majority democrat legislature,and a democrat governor,which is the perfect storm because it will never go anywhere from there.

Because the majority democrats in the legislature will not allow it to go any further based solely on partisanship verses protecting the voting process.

What it will lead to in that state and others is a continuation of lack of trust in the voting process and more turmoil.

Michigan politicians went down that road of not taking the time to use this opportunity to install trust in the system,mark my words,every election moving forward will now be called into question and turmoil will result.

Until somebody stands up to protect the integrity of the election there will always be doubt in the back of ones mind and the system remains tainted until it gets fixed.

Take it from Florida,yea okay you look like an ass to the rest of the country admitting that your system is screwed up,but people get over that and once you get it resolved it becomes a much easier process.

Florida finished its count the night of the election,hours after the final vote,with a population that far outweighs other states,you did not hear the democrats up in arms yelling Trump stole the state.

Because we had already been there done that and fixed it.

That is your choice though,you can either say nothing to see here move along through every election cycle,and you can bet moving forward every single election locally will be in questioned as to the fairness to it,or you can deal with it and resolve it and make it clear,no matter who the party is,get caught messing with our elections and there will be dire consequences.

For those parroting no proof of fraud,there is a simple solution to that,provide some transparency and flip the coin by proving there is no fraud.

They got caught in Georgia because the media filed a FOI request for the video tapes of the voting center,it has taken this long for that to come out.

Nobody has said ,look we have nothing to hide here are the books,they have done exactly the opposite by refusing to open the books or allow the machines to be investigated.

Its like when you are a kid and you are hiding the coin behind your back,you got no proof of fraud because we are going to do our best to not allow you excess.

If you got nothing to hide why worry about it?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

^^ Dude, give it up man. The dictator lost and they can recount til the cows come home, it will NOT get overturned....

[Scottathew]

^^ Dude, give it up man. The dictator lost and they can recount til the cows come home, it will NOT get overturned....

Yeah, as AG Nessel said, it's time to put up or shut up. After being laughed out of dozens of courtrooms it's time for Trumpers to either provide real evidence or move on.

Four years ago a majority of the voting public had to accept the reality that our next president was going to be a morally bankrupt conman, but we accepted it. January 20th can't come soon enough.

[Bong-Man]

Time to give Don and his followers the Matt Patty treatment. Let him bark until January 20th and beyond. I could care less at this point. Nothing bugs a narcissist more than being ignored. If I was Bill Barr I would welcome being fired at this point. He might be able to save a drop of credibility.

As for Richard, he comes from the land of Matt Goetz, DeSantis, Scott, and Rubio. He doesn't vote in our elections any more than we vote in his. The song will remain the same for another 4 years. Nothing to see here. Disney World is open if you choose to go.

[Richard]

Yeah, as AG Nessel said, it's time to put up or shut up. After being laughed out of dozens of courtrooms it's time for Trumpers to either provide real evidence or move on.

Four years ago a majority of the voting public had to accept the reality that our next president was going to be a morally bankrupt conman, but we accepted it. January 20th can't come soon enough.

Seriously ?

You guys spent 4 years,hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars trying to impeach a sitting President because you did not accept the results,so why even pretend to take the higher moral ground?

The difference here,it is not coming out of the taxpayers pocket,you guys choose to disenfranchise millions while coming up with a list a mile long of names to call others who you did not agree with.

When people decide to play,let’s vote and change the rules as we go along,it does not matter who wins or loses,your choice on the local elections because you only hurt yourself and your city,when it comes to the federal level,playing footloose and fancy with the rules you are playing games with the rest of the country.

People in the cities cannot figure out why nothing has changed in the last 50 years,Detroit is experiencing what it is like to have good representation,what happened in the last 25 years?

How many candidates stepped up that would have been good for the city but were pushed aside by the machine?

Keep thinking your savior is coming on Jan 20,the history of both has not been a stellar response to how to run a country,Michigan felt that impact probably worse then most other cities.

You guys are so obsessed with orange man bad you never stopped long enough to realize your state which still gains a majority of fossil fuel related revenues and a manufacturing base that is going to be the biggest target when it comes to saving the planet and suffering under competing against cheap imported everything.

The push will be save the planet,unintended consequences be damned.

[Richard]

^^ Dude, give it up man. The dictator lost and they can recount til the cows come home, it will NOT get overturned....

A recount costs 3-5 million and is a waste of time,it just recounts numbers already there,if a ballot is tainted or fraudulent it is not going to be discovered in a recount and will just be counted again.

The major goal was checking the machines,because of the 2016 election the rule was the machines were never at any point in time be connected to the internet,but people decided that they would just go ahead and plug them in.

Even worse allow the use of thumb drives which is the most vulnerable aspect of any machine.

It is interesting how in the the swing states that normally had a mail in ballot rejection rate of 3% max then you have an election where mail in ballots increase to millions but a rejection rate of .002 percent?

You look at places like in NYC ,Bronx etc. Trump gained more votes then 2016 across all nationalities and colors.

All across the country his numbers increased from 2016 but then you get to the urban core where there is a massive mail in ballot turnout.

It is interesting how only the swing state urban core cities it becomes totally opposite.

You guys are always saying listen to the experts,but yet the experts in the math field are saying and proving that what happened was statistically impossible.

[bartocktoo]

All across the country his numbers increased from 2016 but then you get to the urban core where there is a massive mail in ballot turnout.

It is interesting how only the swing state urban core cities it becomes totally opposite.

Trump got more votes in Detroit in 2020 than he did in 2016.

Like Trump, it seems you are the smartest person in the room. Unlike Trump though, I'm guessing, you can't use your conspiracy theory attack on democracy absent any evidence to raise a couple of hundred million dollars that can be funneled for personal use. Pity, eh?

Now on to the next vague and condescending diatribe. They are amusing.

[Richard]

Trump got more votes in Detroit in 2020 than he did in 2016.

Like Trump, it seems you are the smartest person in the room. Unlike Trump though, I'm guessing, you can't use your conspiracy theory attack on democracy absent any evidence to raise a couple of hundred million dollars that can be funneled for personal use. Pity, eh?

Now on to the next vague and condescending diatribe. They are amusing.

And this is why going forward there will be little unity,because some feel the need to attack those who they do not agree with,what is at issue is the mail in vote system and the use of internet connectivity with the machines.

Forget about being mature adults some of you seem to take a special pride in always being the bully in the room,then turn around and complain about morals in others.

Two things that have never been used to this extent in the history of the country.

You can keep up the personal partisan view but while you are so consumed with attacks and telling everybody nothing to see here,the republicans got the machine and know how to exploit it,so moving forward it will be win at any cost and a race to see who can push the boundaries.

[bust]

Was that just a Trumpist crybaby crying in unison with the Trump crybaby who's crying he wants to invalidate hundreds of thousands of Detroit and Michigan votes because wah waah waaah election fraaud! he can't lose?

...Because he's desperate to retain his Presidential immunity to avoid the punitive criminal justice he's long overdue, and to keep fooling fools he's repeatedly fooled out of their money for his election defense personal use, and...

With no evidence??

Put a passy in it!