Corona Virus Crisis Discussion Thread

[Ookpik]

Can anyone confirm that the car dealerships are still open or will be open on Monday?

I have heard evidence to the contrary but cannot confirm either way.

Thanks!

[Lowell]

Signs of the times from downtown ye olde Farmington.

[Richard]

Very concerning. Did you see that Henry Ford Hospital was begging for masks last week? They were making homemade protection devices. Here we are in the U.S. 2020, and our flagship hospitals are making DIY gear because they can't get supplies.
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-he...ht-coronavirus

President Trump has refused to help states get supplies, and in fact has out purchased the states like MA, where the Governor tried buying supplies 3 times and was outbid by the Feds. Not only is President Trump not helping provide supplies, he's beating states to them. This is disgusting. What in the world is going on?

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...upplies-2020-3

Two things,you are spreading the obvious designed to raise the level of fear and redistributing incomplete information designed to spread fear via narratives.

Henry Hospitable was begging for masks last week.

Yes,it is well known that there is a mask shortage worldwide,so let’s beg for the obvious and splash it across the news.

100 s of thousands,even millions across the globe are begging for masks.

There is no warehouse anywhere with billions of masks just sitting there and there were laws in place that regulated mask supplies to hospitals,we thought it was cool to embrace on demand supplies,even though it has been proven that when an emergency arises we are slow to ramp up production.

We are Americans,we learn to adapt and overcome in times of disaster,sense when did we become a country of sitting down while throwing our hands up in despair while waiting for others to come up with solutions for us?

President Trump has refused to help states get supplies and in fact has out purchased states.

First part is flat out false information,second part is designed strictly to instill fear and hate with politics.

The federal government consists of many different branches and millions of workers.

The federal governments role first and foremost is the security of the United States as a country,there are several branches of the federal government that need to be operational ready,otherwise the states become irrelevant because if the federal government ceases to exist,the virus is the least of our worries.

A state of emergency on the national level has been declared,when a individual state declares the same it opens the door to the states for federal government resources.

Everything related to the virus and any monies spent by the individual states are reimbursed by the federal government.

If the states are playing with federal funds how exactly are they getting outbid? They have the federal budget to bid with.

What is happening is the states are saying,hey these masks were made in China in the past and sold for $1 and now we expect private enterprises in America to spend millions ramping up a factory and sell us those masks for $1.

The president created a bidding war to drive the prices up in order to make it feasible for factories to gear up production.

I see zero Americans offering to go work at those factories at the Chinese pay rate of $8 per day,nobody should expect them to,in short it translates into using taxpayers money to jack up the rates that puts taxpayers to work at a fair wage,they have jobs in a rough time,pay federal taxes and the money comes back to the taxpayers.

In the process you are also putting billions back into the local economy instead of sending it to a factory overseas.

The president is in charge of the United States as a country,the states are in charge of their selves as an individual states within the country.

The states are now and have always been their own first line of defense,nothing has changed.

The last thing we want at this point and the thing that everybody seems to be pushing for,is the federal government to step in and take control of this.

When that happens the states will lose control of the situation and be forced to comply,your own local police force will no longer be under city or state control,your mayors and governors become tools of the federal government.

Is that what you want?

[Bigdd]

I'll add to that

3M and others plants to make the masks and suits have their plants in China. [[thanks to free trade).

And now the Chinese Communist Party refuses to allow 3M and others to ship product back to the USA.


Also, prescription drugs are made for us by some 20 other countries,.. at least 10 of which have refused to sell them to us during this crisis.

[Canadian Visitor]

I'll add to that

3M and others plants to make the masks and suits have their plants in China. [[thanks to free trade).

And now the Chinese Communist Party refuses to allow 3M and others to ship product back to the USA.


Also, prescription drugs are made for us by some 20 other countries,.. at least 10 of which have refused to sell them to us during this crisis.

Hold on..........

I happen to agree that globalization, while valuable in some respects, has drawbacks.

That's why capitalism needs limits, but not abolition.

A bit of greed is good, too much is dangerous.

But this whole China is evil because they didn't sell us makes is a bit simple.

China was in the midst of a public health crisis, and the U.S. was not, as at 2 weeks ago.

China needed the masks.

Is that a problem, yes, does it make China evil?, no.

Also lets keep in mind Italy asked for emergency help during its crisis...........you know who didn't help at all? The United States. You know who donated ventilators and sent medical personnel? China.

Are you, as an American, evil, because your government didn't provide ventilators to a country that clearly needed them, and moreso than yours? No. The U.S. government was worried it might need what it had, so it decided not to share.

Is that a problem? Ask Italy.......I think they'd say yes. But it doesn't make the United States evil.

It does suggest a value in having at least some domestic supply of certain critical supplies.

It does suggest a value in a diversified supply chain, so that you can get things from 3, 4 or 5 different countries and suppliers within a country in case of problems.

Will doing that make things more expensive? Yes, it will. Is it worth it? Probably, certainly if you're on the wrong end of an epidemic, an energy shortage, a food shortage etc. You would think so.

Like the U.S. having a strategic oil reserve, and a cheese reserve [[yes you do have one), it makes sense to have a reserve of ventilators, masks, back-up generators etc.

There's value in being prepared, as there is in savings, keeping debt down, reducing poverty, keeping the environment clean and having good quality public services from education to roads/transit etc.

Of course, that's not free.

So if you'd like to fix those things, be prepared to open your wallet for more expensive goods/services, and/or higher taxes.

[Bigdd]

Hold on..........

But this whole China is evil because they didn't sell us makes is a bit simple.

We're a bit too far off Detroit,.. but for the record,.. I never said anything of the like. That was just your imagination.

Also,.. us refusing to fill a foreign order is different than them confiscating the products of one of our companies. We're not asking them to "sell us" anything,.. it product that belongs to an American company,.. and they're refusing to allow that company to ship it's own products to itself.



And I agree,.. having all our eggs in one basket [[held by an "enemy"?) is just stupid.

Our president has taken steps to divest, just as you suggested, insisting military, VA, HUD, FEMA, etc, etc buy from domestic factories. If we had been doing that already,.... the equipment would be here,.. and we could take those plants from one shift 5 days a week to running 24-7,.. and quintuple production.


Now we're in a pinch. The hospitals here are starting to feel it. Looks like the first ones getting hit [[and the first local death) is in Dearborn? I'm headed to a drop-off point in Troy in a few minutes to donate masks.

[softailrider]

Did a Costco run this morning [[wanted some Lamb Chops) they had basically everything except commode tissue. Wasn’t really that busy, seen it much busier. Gonna grill up those Lamb Chops tomorrow for dinner, should be tasty.

[Meddle]

[Zacha341]

Yeah. What's up with that? We sure allowed China a great deal of control in these areas... now we see the consequences?

We're not asking them to "sell us" anything,.. it's a product that belongs to an American company... and they're refusing to allow that company to ship it's own products to itself.

[Canadian Visitor]

Also,.. us refusing to fill a foreign order is different than them confiscating the products of one of our companies. We're not asking them to "sell us" anything,.. it product that belongs to an American company,.. .

We agree on a great deal; but a correction here.

In order to have a factory in pretty much any country, including the U.S. you must incorporate a local entity under the laws of that land.

I would strongly suspect 3M China is a distinct company, that is owned by 3M worldwide.

That being the case, they are, as per Chinese law, regulating the conduct of a foreign-owned Chinese company.

The U.S. does far more than that, you have all sorts of extra-territorial laws as a country which you apply to foreign-based, foreign-owned companies and which attempt to govern their conduct while not on U.S. soil.

So let's just dial back on the hypocrisy, goose, meet gander.

I can understand being put off by the Chinese conduct in this case.

But you can't call out other countries when your own does much the same.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Got it. What a mess! We just need to start over with making the masks new company etc. per the red tape. Course that will take months to get up and going. What crazy days these are....

[Canadian Visitor]

^^^ Got it. What a mess! We just need to start over with making the masks new company etc. per the red tape. Course that will take months to get up and going. What crazy days these are....

It should take days.

Permanent change is a different matter; but companies can switch quickly.

Canada Goose, the luxury jacket maker will likely be making masks here; distillers are already producing hand sanitizers.

I have extensive contacts in retail and am told all major chains expect to have hand sanitizer, made domestically, in stock in the next 7-10 days.

Making masks is just as easy.

Autoparts companies here are re-tooling to make ventilators as well.

Shouldn't be any more complicated in the U.S.

[Bigdd]

It should take days.

Permanent change is a different matter; but companies can switch quickly.

Making masks is just as easy.

Autoparts companies here are re-tooling to make ventilators as well.

Shouldn't be any more complicated in the U.S.

The sanitation of the plants and meeting regulations plays a big part too.

The medical community won't allow anyone to just make masks,.. or ventilators. They have to be made in sanitary conditions, and just getting approval after such a plant has been built [[or re-tooled) takes 6 months.

Hopefully some of those requirements get over-ruled by the president or Congress, and it can be done more quickly.

[DeLemur]

What in god's name are you even talking about Richard?

This is endless rambling and such a litany of excuses you sound like a teenage caught doing something wrong.

Anything more to add on how its OK that we're out of masks, don't have enough test kits, and the President won't help the states?

Two things,you are spreading the obvious designed to raise the level of fear and redistributing incomplete information designed to spread fear via narratives.

Henry Hospitable was begging for masks last week.

Yes,it is well known that there is a mask shortage worldwide,so let’s beg for the obvious and splash it across the news.

100 s of thousands,even millions across the globe are begging for masks.

There is no warehouse anywhere with billions of masks just sitting there and there were laws in place that regulated mask supplies to hospitals,we thought it was cool to embrace on demand supplies,even though it has been proven that when an emergency arises we are slow to ramp up production.

We are Americans,we learn to adapt and overcome in times of disaster,sense when did we become a country of sitting down while throwing our hands up in despair while waiting for others to come up with solutions for us?

President Trump has refused to help states get supplies and in fact has out purchased states.

First part is flat out false information,second part is designed strictly to instill fear and hate with politics.

The federal government consists of many different branches and millions of workers.

The federal governments role first and foremost is the security of the United States as a country,there are several branches of the federal government that need to be operational ready,otherwise the states become irrelevant because if the federal government ceases to exist,the virus is the least of our worries.

A state of emergency on the national level has been declared,when a individual state declares the same it opens the door to the states for federal government resources.

Everything related to the virus and any monies spent by the individual states are reimbursed by the federal government.

If the states are playing with federal funds how exactly are they getting outbid? They have the federal budget to bid with.

What is happening is the states are saying,hey these masks were made in China in the past and sold for $1 and now we expect private enterprises in America to spend millions ramping up a factory and sell us those masks for $1.

The president created a bidding war to drive the prices up in order to make it feasible for factories to gear up production.

I see zero Americans offering to go work at those factories at the Chinese pay rate of $8 per day,nobody should expect them to,in short it translates into using taxpayers money to jack up the rates that puts taxpayers to work at a fair wage,they have jobs in a rough time,pay federal taxes and the money comes back to the taxpayers.

In the process you are also putting billions back into the local economy instead of sending it to a factory overseas.

The president is in charge of the United States as a country,the states are in charge of their selves as an individual states within the country.

The states are now and have always been their own first line of defense,nothing has changed.

The last thing we want at this point and the thing that everybody seems to be pushing for,is the federal government to step in and take control of this.

When that happens the states will lose control of the situation and be forced to comply,your own local police force will no longer be under city or state control,your mayors and governors become tools of the federal government.

Is that what you want?

[DeLemur]

Damn it, I knew it. F'ing Detroit is leading the Corona list. Jeeze. Sometimes I hate the ignorance of my neighbors.

[DeLemur]

Pence said they got the liability problems lifted off of construction masks so hospitals could use those and that they don't have a shortage. This was from the press conference on Monday.

Trump could force companies to domestically produce these masks, its in the wartime powers that were just passed but he refused to use them for some reason.

Guys, he fired the Pandemic team in 2018. Totally disbanded our organization focused on Ebola and other viruses. Please don't try to find any excuse out there for this guy. None to be had.

The sanitation of the plants and meeting regulations plays a big part too.

The medical community won't allow anyone to just make masks,.. or ventilators. They have to be made in sanitary conditions, and just getting approval after such a plant has been built [[or re-tooled) takes 6 months.

Hopefully some of those requirements get over-ruled by the president or Congress, and it can be done more quickly.

[313WX]

Damn it, I knew it. F'ing Detroit is leading the Corona list. Jeeze. Sometimes I hate the ignorance of my neighbors.

Where did you find that? List comparing it to what?

[Honky Tonk]

Sometimes I hate the ignorance of my neighbors.

I know exactly what you mean.

[Zacha341]

The main map/ chart is still ticking... 304,528 now -- was at 298,324 a few hours ago [[3/21/20).... US now at #3

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/a...23467b48e9ecf6

Where did you find that? List comparing it to what?

[Jimaz]

The main map/ chart is still ticking... 304,528 now -- was at 298,324 a few hours ago [[3/21/20).... US now at #3

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/a...23467b48e9ecf6

Here's another tracking website: ncov2019.live — by a 17-year-old!

• Meet 17-Year-Old Avi Schiffmann Who Runs Coronavirus Tracking Website Used by 40+ Million Globally

[Zacha341]

167,387 [[3/15/20)....

[Richard]

What in god's name are you even talking about Richard?

This is endless rambling and such a litany of excuses you sound like a teenage caught doing something wrong.

Anything more to add on how its OK that we're out of masks, don't have enough test kits, and the President won't help the states?

Okay the provider of breaking news that we are out of masks,Prove where I posted excuses.

You clearly have a lot to learn maybe until you do you should not be spreading information in order to fan the flames.

Prove to me that anything I posted was fake,false or misleading.

You are the one running around acting like your hair is on fire,take a deep breath and relax and think things out.

It is totally irrelevant that we are out of masks everybody in the world is well aware of the shortage,so we are going to be running around screaming and posting every entity that is short of masks?

Prove where the president has not helped the states otherwise you are posting fake information.

It is simple to do,provide the links.

[Richard]

The sanitation of the plants and meeting regulations plays a big part too.

The medical community won't allow anyone to just make masks,.. or ventilators. They have to be made in sanitary conditions, and just getting approval after such a plant has been built [[or re-tooled) takes 6 months.

Hopefully some of those requirements get over-ruled by the president or Congress, and it can be done more quickly.

The president actually declared an emergency back in January that resolved all of those issues and removed the hospitals maximum capacity requirements,along with making 50 billion available to the states in order to deal with bringing people back to the country from over seas that may have been infected.

The Stafford Act allows the federal government to offer a wide range of aid to states, municipalities, hospitals and even individuals.

Americans may be eligible for “immediate direct and financial assistance” to help with “housing and other disaster related needs,” according to the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials.

The States already knew what was going on back in January because that was the first round of funds sent out to deal with it.

The hospital supply restrictions that were in place for liability were removed under the war act.

January 30th was when the national emergency was declared and just within the last week is when states individually declared.

[DeLemur]

The majority of cases are in metro Detroit. Wayne County [[not including Detroit) and Macomb County each have 101 cases, Oakland County has 229 and Detroit, which the state tallies separately from Wayne County, has 248.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...an/2891279001/

[DeLemur]

Read the article I posted. Proves he's not helping the Governors asking him for help. Republican or Democrat. He's actually outbidding them for masks.