Amazon Looking for a new HQ - Detroit-Windsor Bid Rejected

**Atticus** · January-19-18, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

PSA Groupe would have been perfect...

PSA targets Atlanta for North American headquarters

http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...medium=twitter

Exactly. Bidding on Amazon was like buying a lottery ticket. The odds weren’t good.

I would much rather see the same effort being spent to attract smaller fish companies where the competition is less, and where Detroit has some built in advantages. This is a great example.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-19-18, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Aw, we agree on something.

I was rooting hard for Detroit on this, but I was always nervous that if the city won it would just become another huge corporate interest dictating its desires to the policy-makers. If there is a silver-lining to the sting of the loss it's that Amazon won't suck all of the air out of the room for homegrown entrepreneurs.

We're not a different as you might think.

Me, I'm impressed that your are skeptical of city government's ability to respect the interests of the small as well as the mighty. That's quite a Libertarian position. Welcome to the club.

**Don K** · January-19-18, 05:22 PM

Mayors and governors love mega-projects like this with high visibility that give them something tangible to point to in terms of job creation. The same holds with the import-substitution auto assembly plants in the South.

My opinion is that true prosperity will be built on hundreds of smaller companies in industries that don't exist yet deciding to locate in the Detroit area. For this to happen the powers that be have to focus on the basics of good governance:

Great K-12 schools
Roads that don't crumble to pieces a few years after they're built
Not poisoning the residents [[it should go without saying, but MI failed this test in Flint, and it seems as though WV will fail it in an effort to bring back coal jobs)

Transit would be a good thing, because, believe it or not, not everyone wants to spend two hours a day driving to or from work. I don't believe commuter rail would work here, because Detroit doesn't have the rail commuting tradition of Chicago, NYC, Philly, or Boston [[Grand Trunk Pontiac-Detroit was our only commuter rail line in the "classic" days), and a line that hosts two inbounds in the morning and two outbounds in the evening is a vanity project and not serious rail. This says nothing about the fact that either the present Amtrak station in New Center or a revitalized MC Station wouldn't be terribly convenient for the majority of downtown office workers. Light rail on a variety of lines [[including one to DTW) would seem to be the ticket.

IMHO, once there are jobs with futures here, the UofM, MSU, and WSU grads who presently leave for greener pastures elsewhere will be glad to stay.

Detroit and the metro area have made progress, now I would say it's down to the basics.

**SyGolden48236** · January-19-18, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Your comments seem irrelevant to why Detroit lost the bid. You are criticizing the city, but Amazon rejected Detroit's bid due to things that are lacking in Metro Detroit.

Things that are lacking such as a decent pool of talent, a reasonably low illiteracy rate, decent high school graduation rate, manageable crime rate, reasonable rather than confiscatory tax system. I pretty much covered those in my original statement.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-19-18, 07:24 PM

Not even cracking the top 20 should be a large and loud wake up call to the state and the entire Detroit metro region.

It is very competitive against other states in the country to attract and grow new businesses. It is well past the time for the citizens of Michigan to fully grasp that fact.

Amazon was very straightforward in that they are examining SEVERAL criteria for the best location for this facility. Obviously there where multiple failures here.

The question is what is being done about those failures? More of the same?

**bust** · January-19-18, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

We're not a different as you might think.

Me, I'm impressed that your are skeptical of city government's ability to respect the interests of the small as well as the mighty. That's quite a Libertarian position. Welcome to the club.

We agree, there's a problem: our government often favors the big guys.
We disagree on the plan of action.
Big guys would be even bigger without able supervision.

Wise words, where did I read them:

“Don't prevent good and effective ideas from being used in the field because they're being badly implemented. FIX THEM.”

**hybridy** · January-19-18, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by bust

We agree, there's a problem: our government often unfavorably favors the big guys.”

I realize governmental + corporate favoritism is rampant, but it’s so blantantly obvious in SE Michigan. The good ole boy culture is so pervasive, it continues to drive out talent. Big cities and the coasts will continue to thumb their noses at Detroit because it’s so buried in its motown model t nostalgia. Detroit is an old city but it bulldozed much of it’s history into the landfill...and the personal automobile as we use it now continues to die. Stop clinging to the sinking ship...

**bust** · January-20-18, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by bust

We agree, there's a problem: our government often favors the big guys...

Meant to say "unfairly", and that's redundant. There, I fixed it!

Sorry for the tangent. Thoughts on Amazon later.

**emu steve** · January-20-18, 07:52 AM

I have NO idea if the D.C. bid [[not the NoVa or Montgomery County bids) will win but D.C. has been working the area which would host HQ2 for about 10 years or so, with no obvious knowledge that it would be used as a possible site for HQ2.

IF they get it, there will be a lesson to be learned.

It is much better to have ACCOMPLISHED what others will PROMISE.

Looking simply at this one page diagram one will see, a largely made CAMPUS which incorporates subways, entertainment, many restaurants, housing, waterfront experiences [[e.g., The Wharf), etc.

D.C. has literally built a great 21st century city, within a city.

http://amazonhq2.capitolriverfront.org/campus/#

[[BTW, one can click on the bullets on the right side for more detail).

1). Three subway stops,

2). Baseball and soccer stadiums,

3). A new [[now under construction) bridge across the Anacostia,

4). "The Wharf" a 1 - 2B wharf complex in S.W. D.C. near the subway. It is beautiful. It has been open only a few months and I have been there several times.

5). It is near Fort McNair, Navy Yard and probably not too popular, the U.S. Capitol.

**emu steve** · January-20-18, 08:48 AM

I might add as a P.S. :

If one looks at the big river, the Anacostia, and are familiar with D.C. they will know that the area where #12 and 13 is a pretty forlorn area.

If HQ2 comes to town and Amazon crosses the Anacostia to that area of S.E. D.C. it would be a huge plus toward revitalizing an area which needs as much help as it can get.

Transformative. just like HQ2 would be transformative for Detroit.

**iheartthed** · January-20-18, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

Things that are lacking such as a decent pool of talent, a reasonably low illiteracy rate, decent high school graduation rate, manageable crime rate, reasonable rather than confiscatory tax system. I pretty much covered those in my original statement.

Have you actually read any of the interviews of people who were on the call when Amazon discussed why Detroit was cut?

**SyGolden48236** · January-20-18, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Have you actually read any of the interviews of people who were on the call when Amazon discussed why Detroit was cut?

Yes I did. What is your point?

**emu steve** · January-20-18, 09:05 PM

http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action...0Headquarters?

Odds from an overseas bookie...

**bust** · January-21-18, 01:55 AM

As others have said, this has been a great exercise to organize around. I hope that continues. And let's self-reflect and make the most of this opportunity too.

What has been accomplished? What is there to learn? Where is more progress especially needed?

When Amazon said Detroit's biggest liability is talent they primarily meant attracting it, not developing it in the school systems and retaining it [[though they're related). Their priority is mature talent rich in specific experience, not recent grads eager to hone their skills.

Wherever Amazon selects for its second location they will need to staff up fast. Most will probably relocate, even if the second location has a large pre-existing relevant talent pool. [[It probably will.) Amazon will transfer many current employees. They will draw new hires from around the world, like they always have.

Why does Amazon think Detroit would be a liability attracting the talent they need? Surely there are a lot of factors. Many have already been mentioned. More can be found in the “Detroit out-migration, in-migration, and the "other"” thread. Don't underestimate those.

Detroit's paucity of good public transit is another big liability.

Some have argued transit service is also so weak in a couple finalist cities they compare to Detroit's. But those metro areas are much smaller.

Amazon has faced a lot of criticism for Seattle's recent traffic problems. They'd like to avoid that in their 2nd location. They work hard to encourage employees to commute in ways that contribute less to congestion, and many do. They'd be happy for employees at the 2nd location to improve on their impressive numbers in Seattle. They're looking for ways to be more environmentally-conscious and would be glad for their 2nd location to advance that goal.

It would be surprising if Amazon's analysis of each city did not include predicting and evaluating where their employees would live. In Seattle and elsewhere many Amazon employees have chosen to live close to where they work downtown. Did Amazon estimate with a Detroit location more would choose the suburbs, often far? Detroit is very spread out. Did a lack of good regional transit compound this liability? Did Amazon predict a Detroit location would not have the net effect on traffic and carbon consumption they want?

Maybe it was also the Hart Plaza proposal. Not only does it display a lack of understanding what Amazon wants in a location integrated into the urban fabric, why would they want to be on the hook for any part of that god-awful plan?

I'm only slightly kidding. No, I'm not kidding at all.

Throughout this post, and usually, when I refer to Detroit I mean the metro area. That's how Amazon looks at it. We should think that way too.

My opinions are based on news reports and knowing a little about the bachelor. I did not hear the announcement call.

5 Lessons Seattle Can Teach Other Cities About Amazon
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/u...dquarters.html

**emu steve** · January-21-18, 04:40 AM

Just a question and I have NO idea to the answer:

Will Amazon seriously consider a 'cold weather' city? [[by analogy it took the NFL decades before bring a Super Bowl to a 'cold weather' city like Detroit).

Using the ole expression, 'with everything else being equal' would someone rather work, live and play in say Columbus or a sun belt city [[or a moderate climate city like Raleigh, Nashville, etc.)? Atlanta vs. Chicago?

**313WX** · January-21-18, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Just a question and I have NO idea to the answer:

Will Amazon seriously consider a 'cold weather' city? [[by analogy it took the NFL decades before bring a Super Bowl to a 'cold weather' city like Detroit).

Using the ole expression, 'with everything else being equal' would someone rather work, live and play in say Columbus or a sun belt city [[or a moderate climate city like Raleigh, Nashville, etc.)? Atlanta vs. Chicago?

For me, any place that has a decent amount of winter sunshine.

So basically, all of the above, except *maybe* Columbus [[most of those places don't get lake effect clouds).

**313WX** · January-21-18, 08:32 AM

Amazon HQ2 skit on SNL.

Can't say they weren't spot on with Atlanta. BTW, Kenan Thompson is an Atlanta native.

**iheartthed** · January-21-18, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Just a question and I have NO idea to the answer:

Will Amazon seriously consider a 'cold weather' city? [[by analogy it took the NFL decades before bring a Super Bowl to a 'cold weather' city like Detroit).

Using the ole expression, 'with everything else being equal' would someone rather work, live and play in say Columbus or a sun belt city [[or a moderate climate city like Raleigh, Nashville, etc.)? Atlanta vs. Chicago?

Why wouldn't they go to a cold-weather city? Atlanta and Chicago are two very different places.

**Danny** · January-21-18, 10:16 AM

What Amazon wants a city that is diverse, better neighborhoods, less crime, more retail better public transit. That is their target. Detroit is still its early regional re-development since 1977. At lease Dan Gilbert speed things up for downtown [[Gilberttown). That is the good news.

Let Amazon do its thing and let Detroit do theirs.

**emu steve** · January-21-18, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Why wouldn't they go to a cold-weather city? Atlanta and Chicago are two very different places.

I'm thinking that a lot of growth from Silicon Valley to Seattle, etc. in the last decades has been away from colder climates to warmer or even warm climates.

Amazon HQ 1 and 2 could literally be most anywhere. Doesn't need to be near water. Could be in cold or warm climates. Doesn't 'need' to be in the south to avoid unions [[right to work states).

Bezos could say why do we need to be in Chicago, Pittsburgh, Columbus, or NYC/Newark when we can be... [[fill in the blank). Millenials might prefer to work in Austin than Columbus.

All I'm trying to get at is that for recruiting employees more moderate climates presumably are a plus.

**davewindsor** · January-21-18, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Just a question and I have NO idea to the answer:

Will Amazon seriously consider a 'cold weather' city? [[by analogy it took the NFL decades before bring a Super Bowl to a 'cold weather' city like Detroit).

Using the ole expression, 'with everything else being equal' would someone rather work, live and play in say Columbus or a sun belt city [[or a moderate climate city like Raleigh, Nashville, etc.)? Atlanta vs. Chicago?

Being that Toronto, Chicago, and New York City made it to the short list, I don't think 'cold weather' is a factor. Cost of living doesn't seem to be a factor either. It really sounds like it's about access to a large local talent pool. Not that I'm a Toronto fan, but Toronto may even win it because of its lax immigration policies that give it better access to the global talent pool. I wonder how Trump would slap a duty tax on that?

**313WX** · January-21-18, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Being that Toronto, Chicago, and New York City made it to the short list, I don't think 'cold weather' is a factor. Cost of living doesn't seem to be a factor either. It really sounds like it's about access to a large local talent pool. Not that I'm a Toronto fan, but Toronto may even win it because of its lax immigration policies that give it better access to the global talent pool. I wonder how Trump would slap a duty tax on that?

I recall some Canadians folks mentioning that savings from healthcare could also total $650 million yearly for Amazon if they select Toronto.

**iheartthed** · January-21-18, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Bezos could say why do we need to be in Chicago, Pittsburgh, Columbus, or NYC/Newark when we can be... [[fill in the blank). Millenials might prefer to work in Austin than Columbus.

All I'm trying to get at is that for recruiting employees more moderate climates presumably are a plus.

The only reason places like Chicago and New York are even on the list is because millennials DO like those places.

**SammyS** · January-21-18, 09:56 PM

I’m a little disappointed but not discouraged. There will come a time when major corps make Detroit their city without incentives and preconditions

**Richard** · January-21-18, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Just a question and I have NO idea to the answer:

Will Amazon seriously consider a 'cold weather' city? [[by analogy it took the NFL decades before bring a Super Bowl to a 'cold weather' city like Detroit).

Using the ole expression, 'with everything else being equal' would someone rather work, live and play in say Columbus or a sun belt city [[or a moderate climate city like Raleigh, Nashville, etc.)? Atlanta vs. Chicago?

Minneapolis can be considered a cold city and it seems desirable,the south is not exactly a warm place either it was down in the 30s last week so you really cannot escape it.

Maybe Alaska might be a deterrent.

The sunbelt has its negitive sides also,you pay for that sunshine one way or another,and for the most part you really have to either love sprawl or enjoy being out in the sticks.