Amazon Looking for a new HQ - Detroit-Windsor Bid Rejected

[313WX]

Detroit might've actually come out #1 if Michigan had not voted for Trump, lol. I was thought it was a sound analysis until they used that as a criteria...

You may think it's silly, but tech companies are actually very sensitive when it comes to social policies and how they impact their employees, given that they cater to the extremely diverse Millennial generation. Look at how they're all reacting to Trump's decision with DACA for example.

The fact is red states have a reputation of being very hostile to issues such as LGBT Rights, Immigration, etc. See North Carolina with the Bathroom Bill for instance, or Arizona with their Immigration enforcement law.

True, it may not be a major factor [[and the author didn't imply it was), but it could be a factor none the less.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

You may think it's silly, but tech companies are actually very sensitive when it comes to social policies.

I fully agree with this statement, which is why, in large part, I am still predicting [[although we may never know for sure) that Jeff Bezos has already decided where he wants the HQ2 to be. The "competition" is just to get a better land & tax deal from the "winning" city.

[313WX]

Amazon may have a preference [[Bloomberg's inside sources suggests its Boston), but that doesn't mean they can't or won't be swayed by other less than preferable choices.

[emu steve]

Amazon may have a preference [[Bloomberg's inside sources suggests its Boston), but that doesn't mean they can't or won't be swayed by other less than preferable choices.

I think it is helpful to consider what the word 'favorite' means in this context:

In the last election, the favorite, HRC, was considered by Nate Silver to be about a 70% win probability.

In the Final Four of the NCAA men's basketball championships, each team probably has a chance from say 20 - 30%.

Here, the favorite, Boston [[??) might have a 30% chance which means that there is a 70% chance that the city will be NOT Boston.

So one could go: Boston 30%. Denver 20%. Detroit 15% NoVa 15%. Philly 10%. Some one else 10%. [[just my guess). BOS, Denver, Detroit and NoVa would be my 'Final Four' candidates.

So this is completely contrary to how we use the word 'favorite' in everyday English.

And each 'finalist' has its' strengths which could carry the day:

For Detroit, I doubt any competing city has as strong a proponent with the sway that Gilbert does.

He can say: "I have invested billions of dollars in downtown Detroit and I have hard plans to invest several billions more [[shows drawings of the Hudson's site and the two other sites). Detroit can become a world class city. We have the river front just awaiting another corporate headquarters. You can make it happen."

Other cities can say: "We have the Class A office space, world class mass transit, well educated work force, near top universities, etc."

Then, as others have suggested, Bezos will decide what is ultimately more important to him. Does he want a city which already has everything OR does he want to be another Gilbert and help build another major city.

What NO ONE has discussed: Is there a professional relationship between Bezos and Gilbert?? If so, what is that relationship like? Do Bezos and Duggan have any kind of relationship?

[iheartthed]

You may think it's silly, but tech companies are actually very sensitive when it comes to social policies and how they impact their employees, given that they cater to the extremely diverse Millennial generation. Look at how they're all reacting to Trump's decision with DACA for example.

Dallas, Atlanta, Austin, or Charlotte are not hurting for high skilled talent despite being in Trump states. I think including that as a metric was silly and a misread of what Amazon is really looking for when it says it wants a cultural fit.

[emu steve]

Dallas, Atlanta, Austin, or Charlotte are not hurting for high skilled talent despite being in Trump states. I think including that as a metric was silly and a misread of what Amazon is really looking for when it says it wants a cultural fit.

Yes, but isn't Austin the bastion of liberalism south of the Mason-Dixon line?

Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. should not be confused for Trump strongholds.

[313WX]

Yes, but isn't Austin the bastion of liberalism south of the Mason-Dixon line?

Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. should not e confused for Trump strongholds.

True, they're pretty much bubbles within a sea of red. Besides, the high skilled talent in those towns is "different" from what you find in California or Seattle.

Atlanta, Austin, Charlotte and Dallas only exists in the form they do because of their huge concentration of Fortune 500 headquarters and research institutions [[which ironically, is also due to them being located in red states).

Detroit would have a ton of high skilled talent as well if it were home to:

*Delta
*Chick-Fil-A
*Waffle House
*Coca-Cola
*Home Depot
*UPS
*Equifax
*Chick Fil-A
*Church's Chicken
*Popeye's Chicken
*Tyler Perry's Studios
*Rubbermaid
*Arby's
*Georgia-Pacific
*Turner Broadcasting
*CDC
*Emory University
*Georgia Tech
*Dobbins Air Force Base
*Orkin
*Cox Media
*Cumulus Media

And all of the businesses who support them.

[iheartthed]

Yes, but isn't Austin the bastion of liberalism south of the Mason-Dixon line?

Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. should not be confused for Trump strongholds.

This is exactly my point.

[313WX]

This is exactly my point.

Regresssive policies at the state level still tend to hurt their big cities, as far as their attractiveness. If you recall, Charlotte had to deal with a not-so-insignificant amount of backlash when North Carolina pushed for that Bathroom Bill.

Now sure, it may not matter to more conservative companies who aren't as concerned about politics or pushing liberal causes, and thus these states can make up for their insanely regressive social policies by being extremely business-friendly. But companies like Google, Facebook and Amazon aren't what I would describe as conservative businesses.

[iheartthed]

Now sure, it may not matter to more conservative companies who aren't as concerned about politics or pushing liberal causes, and thus these states can make up for their insanely regressive social policies by being extremely business-friendly. But companies like Google, Facebook and Amazon aren't what I would describe as conservative businesses.

Without getting too far off topic... Why do people think tech companies are full of left-leaning hippies? This is not true. Also, if they are the diverse and progressive places they would [[recently) like you to believe they are... It sure does not show up in their workforce demographics, which are highly biased against women and minorities. And let's not forget all the stories that have been flooding out about toxic workplace culture.

These are companies that just so happen to have been founded in liberal leaning states than they are bastions of liberal politics. And they shouldn't be bastions of liberal politics because they are businesses, not political organizations.

[Junjie]

Without getting too far off topic... Why do people think tech companies are full of left-leaning hippies? This is not true. Also, if they are the diverse and progressive places they would [[recently) like you to believe they are... It sure does not show up in their workforce demographics, which are highly biased against women and minorities. And let's not forget all the stories that have been flooding out about toxic workplace culture.

These are companies that just so happen to have been founded in liberal leaning states than they are bastions of liberal politics. And they shouldn't be bastions of liberal politics because they are businesses, not political organizations.

I agree with what you say but think it's sort of backwards. The companies aren't really inherently liberal, but they need to behave as though they are for business reasons. The workers they want to attract [[unfortunately) tend to be disproportionately white, but it's young, college-educated whites. That group is largely turned off by any hint of anti-gay, anti-immigrant, etc. sentiment in the company's leadership and operation. So whether they "are" liberal isn't really relevant; they know they need to be perceived as such.

In any case, I don't think this would be a major consideration for Amazon in looking at SE Michigan and agree that the "did state vote for Trump" measure gets at this whole issue only crudely. But if, say, the state legislature were to try to invalidate local anti-discrimination ordinances protecting gay employees, that could be a real problem for a company like Amazon. And in some states [[e.g. NC, Texas) that would be more of a concern than others.

[313WX]

I agree with what you say but think it's sort of backwards. The companies aren't really inherently liberal, but they need to behave as though they are for business reasons. The workers they want to attract [[unfortunately) tend to be disproportionately white, but it's young, college-educated whites. That group is largely turned off by any hint of anti-gay, anti-immigrant, etc. sentiment in the company's leadership and operation. So whether they "are" liberal isn't really relevant; they know they need to be perceived as such.

In any case, I don't think this would be a major consideration for Amazon in looking at SE Michigan and agree that the "did state vote for Trump" measure gets at this whole issue only crudely. But if, say, the state legislature were to try to invalidate local anti-discrimination ordinances protecting gay employees, that could be a real problem for a company like Amazon. And in some states [[e.g. NC, Texas) that would be more of a concern than others.

^^^This is my point exactly.

[iheartthed]

I agree with what you say but think it's sort of backwards. The companies aren't really inherently liberal, but they need to behave as though they are for business reasons. The workers they want to attract [[unfortunately) tend to be disproportionately white, but it's young, college-educated whites. That group is largely turned off by any hint of anti-gay, anti-immigrant, etc. sentiment in the company's leadership and operation. So whether they "are" liberal isn't really relevant; they know they need to be perceived as such.

In any case, I don't think this would be a major consideration for Amazon in looking at SE Michigan and agree that the "did state vote for Trump" measure gets at this whole issue only crudely. But if, say, the state legislature were to try to invalidate local anti-discrimination ordinances protecting gay employees, that could be a real problem for a company like Amazon. And in some states [[e.g. NC, Texas) that would be more of a concern than others.

Tech has always been more of a libertarian leaning culture. I do not think this has changed. I also think you'd be surprised at how many Trump fans there are in tech strongholds like Silicon Valley.

I also don't think tech companies are doing more now to demonstrate appreciation of liberal values than any other large company. Most, if not all, large companies that have a well known brand has put a lot of effort in recent years in demonstrating commitment to diversity and inclusion. It's more often than not just lip service but they're all doing it.

[emu steve]

True, they're pretty much bubbles within a sea of red. Besides, the high skilled talent in those towns is "different" from what you find in California or Seattle.

Atlanta, Austin, Charlotte and Dallas only exists in the form they do because of their huge concentration of Fortune 500 headquarters and research institutions [[which ironically, is also due to them being located in red states).

Detroit would have a ton of high skilled talent as well if it were home to:

*Delta
*Chick-Fil-A
*Waffle House
*Coca-Cola
*Home Depot
*UPS
*Equifax
*Chick Fil-A
*Church's Chicken
*Popeye's Chicken
*Tyler Perry's Studios
*Rubbermaid
*Arby's
*Georgia-Pacific
*Turner Broadcasting
*CDC
*Emory University
*Georgia Tech
*Dobbins Air Force Base
*Orkin
*Cox Media
*Cumulus Media

And all of the businesses who support them.

This is what Wikipedia has for Northern Virginia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...thern_Virginia

[313WX]

Below is the official RFP from Amazon.

One thing that stands out in particular is mass transit is not mentioned anywhere in it as a requirement. It simply requests participants to provide data regarding transit options [[which includes buses & pedestrian access) as well as rush hour congestion data / drive times on roads and highways.

...Personnel travel and logistics needs, both from population centers to the Project site, aswell as between company facilities, are critically important. As such, travel time to a major highway corridor and arterial roadway capacity potential are key factors. The highway corridors must provide direct access to significant population centers with eligible employment pools. Travel time to aninternational airport with daily direct flights to Seattle, New York, San Francisco/Bay Area, andWashington, D.C. is also an important consideration...

...Please provide highway, airport, and related travel and logistics information for all proposedsites. Please also include transit and transportation options for commuting employees livingin the region. For each proposed site in your region, identify all transit options, including bike lanes and pedestrian access to the site[[s). Also, list the ranking of traffic congestion for your community and/or region during peak commuting times...

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....516043504_.pdf

[rbdetsport]

Below is the official RFP from Amazon.

One thing that stands out in particular is mass transit is not mentioned anywhere in it as a requirement. It simply requests participants to provide data regarding transit options [[which includes buses & pedestrian access) as well as rush hour congestion data / drive times on roads and highways.

...Personnel travel and logistics needs, both from population centers to the Project site, aswell as between company facilities, are critically important. As such, travel time to a major highway corridor and arterial roadway capacity potential are key factors. The highway corridors must provide direct access to significant population centers with eligible employment pools. Travel time to aninternational airport with daily direct flights to Seattle, New York, San Francisco/Bay Area, andWashington, D.C. is also an important consideration...

...Please provide highway, airport, and related travel and logistics information for all proposedsites. Please also include transit and transportation options for commuting employees livingin the region. For each proposed site in your region, identify all transit options, including bike lanes and pedestrian access to the site[[s). Also, list the ranking of traffic congestion for your community and/or region during peak commuting times...

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....516043504_.pdf

The chart of site criteria specifically states, "access to mass transit"

[313WX]

The chart of site criteria specifically states, "access to mass transit"

It said "core preferences," not "core requirements."

EDIT: And even then, it does say "bus routes" as well.

[Tig3rzhark]

Amazon still wants to be in a city that has decent public transit. And even if we don't get the Amazon HQ2, that still doesn't excuse metro Detroit from providing public transit.

[313WX]

Amazon still wants to be in a city that has decent public transit. And even if we don't get the Amazon HQ2, that still doesn't excuse metro Detroit from providing public transit.

Did you mean "even if we do get the Amazon HQ2?"

[Embee]

The mayor of Windsor is meeting with Gilbert this week to discuss Windsor's involvement in this bid. We have to consider what makes this region unique and how the international flavour sets it apart from other cities' bids.

[313WX]

The mayor of Windsor is meeting with Gilbert this week to discuss Windsor's involvement in this bid. We have to consider what makes this region unique and how the international flavour sets it apart from other cities' bids.

Great news!

[401don]

The mayor of Windsor is meeting with Gilbert this week to discuss Windsor's involvement in this bid. We have to consider what makes this region unique and how the international flavour sets it apart from other cities' bids.

It all sounds good until Homeland Security shoots down an Amazon drone dropping off a parcel at the other office.

[MicrosoftFan]

What is the biggest challenge facing Detroit's Amazon bid?

[davewindsor]

What is the biggest challenge facing Detroit's Amazon bid?

After almost 300 posts in this thread discussing that, it isn't even funny anymore.

[Bham1982]

What is the biggest challenge facing Detroit's Amazon bid?

Easy. Over 100 cities have submitted formal bids.

Even if you believe Detroit to be the ideal, perfect candidate [[a laughable assumption), you would have to be pretty damn Pollyannish to believe in such dim odds. That doesn't mean the city shouldn't try, though.