Detroit Update: On the Pistons Moving to Little Caesars Arena, and New Soccer Stadium

[ekleezy]

Yes, and hold the Olympics there too! This thread has officially jumped the shark.

I didn't think it was that crazy to think that, if Gores gets his MLS team and stadium, that he would want both of his pro teams in one stadium/arena. Do you not believe he'll ever get the MLS team or was it insane to think an MLS team and an NBA team could share a stadium?

[mwilbert]

I didn't think it was that crazy to think that, if Gores gets his MLS team and stadium, that he would want both of his pro teams in one stadium/arena. Do you not believe he'll ever get the MLS team or was it insane to think an MLS team and an NBA team could share a stadium?

Basketball and soccer sharing a stadium is probably possible, just as the Lions and the Pistons were able to share the Silverdome, but it isn't a good idea. The preferred layouts are too different. So I'd say not really sane.

[southen]

I didn't think it was that crazy to think that, if Gores gets his MLS team and stadium, that he would want both of his pro teams in one stadium/arena. Do you not believe he'll ever get the MLS team or was it insane to think an MLS team and an NBA team could share a stadium?

If he is a partner in LCA and merges his entertainment business with Olympia then the new arena is essentially his as well. It makes zero sense to have soccer and basketball in the same stadium. The sight lines would be awful for basketball and there would be almost no home court advantage in a space that cavernous.

[emu steve]

If Gores is able to get his soccer stadium at the fail jail site, is it possible that he would want to consolidate MLS and the Pistons into that stadium? It couldn't be an open-air stadium, then, but I haven't heard that site discussed as a future option at all. Is it not possible?

No.

Soccer fields are very, very big. They are somewhat bigger than an American football field.

Hope I'm not making a fool of myself, but one might be able to put say a half dozen basketball courts in a soccer field [[stacking them side by side).

[stasu1213]

@stasu I'm under no authorization to confirm, but the piston are coming downtown

No news is bad news. The silence is deafening

[313WX]

What major city has a grocery store in the central business district? None that I've lived in.

And what cities have you lived in?

[hybridy]

No news is bad news. The silence is deafening

Patience is a virtue

[Mackinaw]

What major city has a grocery store in the central business district? None that I've lived in.

What a strange comment.

Downtown Brooklyn is dotted with Key Foods and a Trader Joes, as well as large local market Brooklyn Fare.

Downtown Manhattan, two blocks from the World Trade Center, has a Whole Foods.

Downtown Minneapolis has a Whole Foods.

I do not think Pittsburgh, Columbus, or Cleveland have proper grocery stores in their CBDs, though at least in the case of Pitt/Colum. they do have markets in adjacent hoods, just as Detroit has a midtown Whole Foods. It's a nice chance for Detroit to take a step ahead of its midwest competition.

[Lowell]

What a strange comment.

Downtown Brooklyn is dotted with Key Foods and a Trader Joes, as well as large local market Brooklyn Fare.

Downtown Manhattan, two blocks from the World Trade Center, has a Whole Foods.

Downtown Minneapolis has a Whole Foods.

I do not think Pittsburgh, Columbus, or Cleveland have proper grocery stores in their CBDs, though at least in the case of Pitt/Colum. they do have markets in adjacent hoods, just as Detroit has a midtown Whole Foods. It's a nice chance for Detroit to take a step ahead of its midwest competition.

I hear you but in fairness, don’t you think all of those are high [over priced?] venues targeted at the well to do new urban types. It’s not like Krogers or Safeway.

[Onthe405]

Within 2 blocks of the 7th Street Metro Center subway station in DTLA:

Ralphs [[Kroger SoCal subsidiary) at 9th and Flower:

https://goo.gl/maps/XMtKDQwJyqx

Smart & Final [[mainstream mid-tier local chain) at Figueroa & 8th:

https://goo.gl/maps/sr1TCtd9tan

[gumby]

I hear you but in fairness, don’t you think all of those are high [over priced?] venues targeted at the well to do new urban types. It’s not like Krogers or Safeway.

Well aren't well to do urban types generally the inhabitants of downtown areas? So it would make sense that the stores that cater to them would be the ones to locate nearby. Not too many Family Dollars next to million dollar housing.

[Mackinaw]

Lowell, Key Foods is as basic as it gets, lower than Kroger for sure. Trader Joe's is a discounter. It has a good reputation [[among some) but it is definitely not a high-end grocer, nor does it try to be one. Whole Foods: hard to make the case that it is overpriced. It is pretty middle of the road these days, and for the products sold, it is competitive.

[401don]

Downtown Toronto has about a dozen full-size supermarkets. A couple are located underground at subway stops. I used to make fun of guys pulling those "little old lady" two-wheel shopping carts home but you really have no choice with these locations.

[casscorridor]

Downtown Toronto has about a dozen full-size supermarkets. A couple are located underground at subway stops. I used to make fun of guys pulling those "little old lady" two-wheel shopping carts home but you really have no choice with these locations.

Downtown Toronto also has people! The population of Downtown Detroit is tiny, even when you include "Greater Downtown." This is why you only see a few grocery stores. I think if liquor/corner stores carried more basic groceries and produce, the situation wouldn't be as bad, while waiting for larger stores to open. Marcus Market in Midtown is the only store that comes close.

[stasu1213]

Downtown Toronto also has people! The population of Downtown Detroit is tiny, even when you include "Greater Downtown." This is why you only see a few grocery stores. I think if liquor/corner stores carried more basic groceries and produce, the situation wouldn't be as bad, while waiting for larger stores to open. Marcus Market in Midtown is the only store that comes close.

The liqour stores and corner stores in Detroit would be a terrible place to shop for groceries being the undesirable that often hang around liquor stores in Detroit and owners allowing it. Trader Joe's would make killing on Jefferson between Downtown and Lafayette Park.

[Detroitdave]

I agree, I'm surprise Trader Joes hasn't been looking into the Detroit area yet?
I'm sure they have to be looking before it gets too late. but they are a big company with deep pockets .


[QUOTE=stasu1213;515766]The liqour stores and corner stores in Detroit would be a terrible place to shop for groceries being the undesirable that often hang around liquor stores in Detroit and owners allowing it. Trader Joe's would make killing on Jefferson between Downtown and Lafayette Park.[/QUOTE

[warsaw7]

[QUOTE=Detroitdave;515774]I agree, I'm surprise Trader Joes hasn't been looking into the Detroit area yet?
I'm sure they have to be looking before it gets too late. but they are a big company with deep pockets .

The liqour stores and corner stores in Detroit would be a terrible place to shop for groceries being the undesirable that often hang around liquor stores in Detroit and owners allowing it. Trader Joe's would make killing on Jefferson between Downtown and Lafayette Park.[/QUOTE

I have heard this before and this article reinforces the rumor. Trader Joe's has a criteria they follow in regards to the median household income within a certain radius. Not sure what the distance is, I heard three miles, but it makes sense. So if you have a Trader Joe's in downtown Detroit, there has to be a consistent high gross median income in a three mile radius [[not sure if that is accurate) for a Trader Joe's to be considered.

https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/inf...-neighborhoods

[casscorridor]

The liqour stores and corner stores in Detroit would be a terrible place to shop for groceries being the undesirable that often hang around liquor stores in Detroit and owners allowing it. Trader Joe's would make killing on Jefferson between Downtown and Lafayette Park.

Trader Joe's would be great but in real urban areas, corner stores are the backbone of many people's daily shopping needs. Walk to the corner for some milk, an onion, an avocado, toilet paper, or other things you need quickly. It doesn't require a trip a big grocery store that might require travelling on transit and searching the the isles of the store, and waiting in line. This is a very basic thing that normal cities have that Detroit seems to have forgotten.

[stasu1213]

Trader Joe's would be great but in real urban areas, corner stores are the backbone of many people's daily shopping needs. Walk to the corner for some milk, an onion, an avocado, toilet paper, or other things you need quickly. It doesn't require a trip a big grocery store that might require travelling on transit and searching the the isles of the store, and waiting in line. This is a very basic thing that normal cities have that Detroit seems to have forgotten.

In other cities across the country but not in Detroit. In Detroit the corner stores sell more spoiled products than the independent supermarkets that dominate the neighborhoods throughout the city. Riff raff and other desirables loiter outside these so call convenience stores for the mom and pop corner stores had all but disappeared tbhroughout Detroit. Let's focus on the city's most fast rising are which is downtown. There are two so called corner stores on Washington Blvd. Both sell bad outdated produce. Both have undesirable people hanging outside of those locations while the police just cruises by and pedestrians are harassed daily while walking pass both locations. The Jazz liquor store on Woodward had the same problem until private security that patrol the area finally put the squeeze on them. You my friend are referring to corner stores that are in Seinfeld's New York City not Detroit

[emu steve]

A quick pivot from food to the debate about those who stayed and tried to build Detroit up and those who fled for the 'burbs [[e.g., Davidson) in relation to the proposed move of the Pistons back to Detroit. [[Davidson gave up on Detroit and fled for the 'burbs).

Some families were singled out for praise. A few individual were not.

While I'm not denigrating Gilbert, he, to me, was a 'Johnny come lately' to saving the city. He was like the guy who goes 'bottom fishing' in the stock market and jumps in and makes a killing by buying cheap.

I feel for the pioneers, listed in the article, who stuck by Detroit when it wasn't considered financially a smart thing to do.

Gilbert was[[is) a very, very good businessman; the others put city before profit [[they arguably were 'not' good businessmen by putting their heart and soul ahead of their brain and wallet).

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...ette/93111834/

[313WX]

Trader Joe's would be great but in real urban areas, corner stores are the backbone of many people's daily shopping needs. Walk to the corner for some milk, an onion, an avocado, toilet paper, or other things you need quickly. It doesn't require a trip a big grocery store that might require travelling on transit and searching the the isles of the store, and waiting in line. This is a very basic thing that normal cities have that Detroit seems to have forgotten.

You need a high density of people with enough disposable income to support the type of corner stores you're describing.

The fact is Detroit hasn't been that since the 1970s. It's one of the least densest [[more so than Los Angeles of all places) and poorest cities in the country, and this doesn't look to change any time soon.

[TTime]

I can't wait to see who MLS chooses in these upcoming rounds of expansion. Detroit is still a contender because MLS needs the potential TV audience that Metro Detroit provides but then you have teams like Cinci that averaged over 17,000 fans a game and even brought in over 30,000 for a game. Pretty impressive for a lower tier team. Detroit is not a lay up of a choice due to the strong proposals from other cities but at least the amount of people located in the tri counties could be enough to make it an appealing bid.

[Mackinaw]

A quick pivot from food to the debate about those who stayed and tried to build Detroit up and those who fled for the 'burbs [[e.g., Davidson) in relation to the proposed move of the Pistons back to Detroit. [[Davidson gave up on Detroit and fled for the 'burbs).

Some families were singled out for praise. A few individual were not.

While I'm not denigrating Gilbert, he, to me, was a 'Johnny come lately' to saving the city. He was like the guy who goes 'bottom fishing' in the stock market and jumps in and makes a killing by buying cheap.

I feel for the pioneers, listed in the article, who stuck by Detroit when it wasn't considered financially a smart thing to do.

Gilbert was[[is) a very, very good businessman; the others put city before profit [[they arguably were 'not' good businessmen by putting their heart and soul ahead of their brain and wallet).

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...ette/93111834/

Gilbert was not a Detroit landowner in the late 80s. He was still a very young man building his main business then. Apples and oranges. If the shoe fits...

What you call merely "buying low" corresponds with literally saving a dozen historic building. If it was so obvious that a self-interest profiteer would have behaved like Gilbert circa 2010, then where the hell were the Illitches [[or anyone else for that matter)? As I've asked elsewhere, did the Ilitches construct ONE residential unit prior to the pending arena project? They never left the city, but they clearly didn't believe too strongly in it, either. Rather, they took a route which ensured pure profiteering [[tax credits, public support, ripping off the city re TV royalties and the JLA lease). That this elicits praise from John Frickin Gallagher is neither impressive nor notable. At best, it is impressive only because the tide was so massively pro-exodus in the 80s and 90s.

[SpartanDawg]

Well it's official. Press conference tomorrow at 3 pm at Cass Tech for the announcement. Chris Illitch, Tom Gores, and Duggan will be there

[dtowncitylover]

Channel 4 is also reporting that the Palace will be sold and torn down.