Are houses being burned purposely in Detroit

[detroitsgwenivere]

So you're saying DPD has a secret program where officers pour gas and then light it on fire? Why would they do this? And why is it secret?

It's not exactly secret, or a program, when it's done in broad daylight and all it takes is a minor explosive device. I'd call it "standard operating procedure" for certain neighborhoods though.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Everything that you just wrote about your neighborhood, the type of people that live there and their activities, and your unwillingness to take ownership for the problems that go on there is appalling.

So what do you want? Have the police come in and try to shut down the dope houses while all of you sit there and refuse to cooperate with the police to lock them up? Then you accuse the same police department of burning houses in a neighborhood that you and everyone else that lives there doesn't seem to care about enough to be part of saving it?

Are you and the rest of your neighbors not responsible for anything that goes on there?

1. I don't live there, my people do. I just tell you guys about the area as it is the exact opposite of the areas most of you live in I'm sure. And because I'm fortunate enough to have the vocabulary to tell these stories at all, unlike so many coming from this environment.

2. The OP asked about the city burning down homes on purpose. I'm saying, yes, they do in some instances, just not only for the reasons the OP is inferring to.

3. How do you figure I'm not just as appalled as you? What exactly are you supposed to do when the people who you are supposed to trust are as much the criminals as the ones they go after? We've had to bury innocent people we loved who were innocent bystanders to some of this shit. The lessons learned weren't: Go run and tell the first chance you get, because you wont end up in the same shape your dead buddy is in.

The only difference with this story in particular is that it doesn't fit some folk's narratives of "the police can do no wrong." So naturally it will ruffle some feathers.

[DetroitBoy]

It's not exactly secret, or a program, when it's done in broad daylight and all it takes is a minor explosive device. I'd call it "standard operating procedure" for certain neighborhoods though.

Sounds like there a lot more pipes being lit by the people who live there than DPD lighting up houses in that neighborhood.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Sounds like there a lot more pipes being lit by the people who live there than DPD lighting up houses in that neighborhood.

There's a lot of dopefiends that roll through the area day and night. The people that live there, however, are mostly families stuck in homes that are worth virtually less than the paper the deed was printed on.

[Wesley Mouch]

...The only difference with this story in particular is that it doesn't fit some folk's narratives of "the police can do no wrong." So naturally it will ruffle some feathers.

I've never heard 'the police can do no wrong' on this forum. I certainly don't think that.

I do however think that the police do far more good for Detroit than harm.

Back to the topic... bring video. Bring facts. Half-baked accusations of some conspiracy don't help.... its just tossing mud. I'm completely confused by your arguments. Why would the police burn down houses? Makes no sense. Explain.

[softailrider]

I've never heard 'the police can do no wrong' on this forum. I certainly don't think that.

I do however think that the police do far more good for Detroit than harm.

Back to the topic... bring video. Bring facts. Half-baked accusations of some conspiracy don't help.... its just tossing mud. I'm completely confused by your arguments. Why would the police burn down houses? Makes no sense. Explain.

Not the first time I've heard that. First time I've heard it lately though. Would I put it past some Detroit cops to do that? Hell no I wouldn't.

[acer_ventura]

This happened in broad daylight, and I'm told that the police had people stretched out for over an hour, which is the only reason there were so many witnesses. Drug raids have always been more common in the summer months, especially during the buildup to the State Fair, but it is uncommon to have half of one side of the block burn down during the process. That's enough to scare the shit out of anyone who might run the mouth.

I'm told that this raid was in response to murder that occurred on that corner the week prior.

Thank you for the additional info DetroitsGwenivere. :-)

[Danny]

Years ago Malik Shabazz from the Macrus Garvey Branch of the Black Detroit Party of Detroit yelled his voice to city council under Bing Administration warns them that if they don't tear abandon buildings down, we will burn it down! I'm not sure that Detroit City government is burning homes and building down just of snuff out poor welfare and food stamp people. There are folks who are burning their Detroit homes down and destroying their once city of neighborhoods right now:

1. To fool the insurance companies in order to get claim money.

2. carelessness

3. foolish pyromaniacs

Corporate regionalism is grabbing Detroit like its new suburban sprawl; now it's the new urban sprawl. The dirt poor people are getting pushed out one way or another. If burning down Detroit buildings is the solution to flush the street rats, to those rich folks so be it.

[DetroitBoy]

Years ago Malik Shabazz from the Macrus Garvey Branch of the Black Detroit Party of Detroit yelled his voice to city council under Bing Administration warns them that if they don't tear abandon buildings down, we will burn it down! I'm not sure that Detroit City government is burning homes and building down just of snuff out poor welfare and food stamp people. There are folks who are burning their Detroit homes down and destroying their once city of neighborhoods right now:

1. To fool the insurance companies in order to get claim money.

2. carelessness

3. foolish pyromaniacs

Corporate regionalism is grabbing Detroit like its new suburban sprawl; now it's the new urban sprawl. The dirt poor people are getting pushed out one way or another. If burning down Detroit buildings is the solution to flush the street rats, to those rich folks so be it.

This entire thread is ridiculous. Don't you think they would have just burned the rest of the houses down like the hoodlums do on Devil's Night? Why wait all these years to do it now?

Do you people really believe the neighborhood watches the DPD set houses on fire in broad daylight? Maybe some of you do. If that is the case, Detroit has a lot bigger problem than unemployment. You can create jobs but overcoming stupidly may never happen.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Back to the topic... bring video. Bring facts. Half-baked accusations of some conspiracy don't help.... its just tossing mud. I'm completely confused by your arguments. Why would the police burn down houses? Makes no sense. Explain.

I said some folks' narrative, not all. I do get the most pushback in these threads when the topic involves the police, though. There's no argument to be had on my part, as this isn't a philosophical discussion, so there must be something else confusing you...

You keep going back to this "conspiracy" label. A conspiracy is something unlawful that is done in secret. There is no secret here, and it only seems secret to you because you weren't in on it. If you lived in any of the neighborhoods that resemble the one I'm talkin about then you'd know that this type of behavior is commonplace. Not just for the people who live there but for the police as well. We're talking about duo-cultural dynamics predicated on street level drugs, guns, theft and prostitution. Think "The Wire."

There is nothing to profit from the initial burning of the house financially. It's the message that they are sending to the dopeboys that they gain from, either they cooperate [[talk, pay up, whatever) or they will lose their spot and be forced to set up shop all over again, costing them their re-up money, days worth of profit, and driving business to their competition.

[Dan Wesson]

Growing up in the D I have found myself in situations where my only defense was to get crazier and more dangerous than the punks frontin' me.

Not only would they back down but at times you gained respect.

Police getting just as whacked and crazy as the gangbangers?

Why not?

[Honky Tonk]

I said some folks' narrative, not all. I do get the most pushback in these threads when the topic involves the police, though. There's no argument to be had on my part, as this isn't a philosophical discussion, so there must be something else confusing you...

You keep going back to this "conspiracy" label. A conspiracy is something unlawful that is done in secret. There is no secret here, and it only seems secret to you because you weren't in on it. If you lived in any of the neighborhoods that resemble the one I'm talkin about then you'd know that this type of behavior is commonplace. Not just for the people who live there but for the police as well. We're talking about duo-cultural dynamics predicated on street level drugs, guns, theft and prostitution. Think "The Wire."

There is nothing to profit from the initial burning of the house financially. It's the message that they are sending to the dopeboys that they gain from, either they cooperate [[talk, pay up, whatever) or they will lose their spot and be forced to set up shop all over again, costing them their re-up money, days worth of profit, and driving business to their competition.

So you're saying the DPD, much like in the scene from Fahrenheit 451, pulls into a neighborhood, in broad daylight, in DPD uniforms and marked cars, in plain view, and starts setting houses on fire. And no one, in this day and age, where you can't buy a cell phone without some sort of camera on it, takes a video, much less a photo, for fear of reprisal? Yet this isn't a singular incident, but a reoccurring event? All I can say is wow.

[Dbest]

So you're saying the DPD, much like in the scene from Fahrenheit 451, pulls into a neighborhood, in broad daylight, in DPD uniforms and marked cars, in plain view, and starts setting houses on fire. And no one, in this day and age, where you can't buy a cell phone without some sort of camera on it, takes a video, much less a photo, for fear of reprisal? Yet this isn't a singular incident, but a reoccurring event? All I can say is wow.

Even if they are not the ones "striking the match" it doesn't mean DFD isn't partly responsible for the amount of arsons. There has been a policy of "controlled burning" for empty houses in already semi-empty neighborhoods.

Do you really think they investigate the arson of most abandoned house?

Whats stops a 16 yr old from torching that abandoned house[[blight) he has looked at on his street since being a kid if there is no fear of being caught? He may even be commended within the neighborhood for eliminating a possible danger for children/women in the community.

It's a win-win for both sides in some cases, thats how tragic its become. To even compare Detroit to any other city in terms of arson is laughable, the amount of abandoned structures dwarfs multiple cities with similar population. How many of these arson cases even involve inhabited homes?

The DFD doesn't need start the fires, and if its blight they probably aren't going to put out. It's arson by neglect.


This Charlie Leduff report may open your eyes.

[Honky Tonk]

Even if they are not the ones "striking the match" it doesn't mean DFD isn't partly responsible for the amount of arsons. There has been a policy of "controlled burning" for empty houses in already semi-empty neighborhoods.

Do you really think they investigate the arson of most abandoned house?

Whats stops a 16 yr old from torching that abandoned house[[blight) he has looked at on his street since being a kid if there is no fear of being caught? He may even be commended within the neighborhood for eliminating a possible danger for children/women in the community.

It's a win-win for both sides in some cases, thats how tragic its become. To even compare Detroit to any other city in terms of arson is laughable, the amount of abandoned structures dwarfs multiple cities with similar population. How many of these arson cases even involve inhabited homes?

The DFD doesn't need start the fires, and if its blight they probably aren't going to put out. It's arson by neglect.


This Charlie Leduff report may open your eyes.

Thanx, but I'm well aware both of the DFD policy on blighted structures, [[which I agree with) and Charlie Leduff's story. detroitsgweniverestory is completely different. Her contention is the DPD, [[notice the letter change) rolls into a neighborhood, much like ISIS, and purposely ignites structures as retaliation for neighborhood would-be drug lords. Apples and oranges.

[DetroitBoy]

Even if they are not the ones "striking the match" it doesn't mean DFD isn't partly responsible for the amount of arsons. There has been a policy of "controlled burning" for empty houses in already semi-empty neighborhoods.

Do you really think they investigate the arson of most abandoned house?

Whats stops a 16 yr old from torching that abandoned house[[blight) he has looked at on his street since being a kid if there is no fear of being caught? He may even be commended within the neighborhood for eliminating a possible danger for children/women in the community.

It's a win-win for both sides in some cases, thats how tragic its become. To even compare Detroit to any other city in terms of arson is laughable, the amount of abandoned structures dwarfs multiple cities with similar population. How many of these arson cases even involve inhabited homes?

The DFD doesn't need start the fires, and if its blight they probably aren't going to put out. It's arson by neglect.


This Charlie Leduff report may open your eyes.

The half-assed logic of your post is more of an eye opener than this clip from the Sensation Channel.

Blaming the DFD for 'arson by neglect' is ignorant. The hoodlum who set the fire and the rest who conspired with him by not reporting him to the DPD are the ones responsible. These people in the neighborhoods run them down and tear up, then torch these abandoned houses and somehow it is the fault of the people who risk their lives putting out fires in Detroit when 4 out of 5 of them are suspicious?

The neighborhoods that we keep hearing so much crying about are first and foremost the responsibility of the people who live there. If they don't give a shit about where they live,
how is it possible for the DPD and DFD to be at fault?

[Wesley Mouch]

...You keep going back to this "conspiracy" label. A conspiracy is something unlawful that is done in secret. There is no secret here, and it only seems secret to you because you weren't in on it. ...

Illegal: Destroying someone else's property is illegal -- whether you're a cop or not. Unless there's a legal principle I can't see here, this is illegal.

Secret: Unless the police admit that they are doing this, it is a 'secret'. I expect that the police act with transparency. If this is policy, then it should be stated policy that is written down. Or are you suggesting this is rogue cops whose illegal actions are simply being tolerated?

[Honky Tonk]

The half-assed logic of your post is more of an eye opener than this clip from the Sensation Channel.

Blaming the DFD for 'arson by neglect' is ignorant. The hoodlum who set the fire and the rest who conspired with him by not reporting him to the DPD are the ones responsible. These people in the neighborhoods run them down and tear up, then torch these abandoned houses and somehow it is the fault of the people who risk their lives putting out fires in Detroit when 4 out of 5 of them are suspicious?

The neighborhoods that we keep hearing so much crying about are first and foremost the responsibility of the people who live there. If they don't give a shit about where they live,
how is it possible for the DPD and DFD to be at fault?

In Dbest's defense, he, [[she's) right. In the past DFD would put out fires in blighted houses. [[all metal, and anything else of the least value, stripped, no hope of recovery) About a year and a half ago, a new policy changed was announced. IF it was a blighted house, and IF nothing else next to or around it would be affected, then the DFD, present, would let the fire burn out. Why? The burned structure would stand there, and in two weeks, someone else decided to set it on fire, and you would be wasting 2, sometimes 3 times the T & M on a structure that was irreparable anyway. I have no problem with that. It's the DPD setting structures on fire in plain view that bothers me.

[DetroitBoy]

In Dbest's defense, he, [[she's) right. In the past DFD would put out fires in blighted houses. [[all metal, and anything else of the least value, stripped, no hope of recovery) About a year and a half ago, a new policy changed was announced. IF it was a blighted house, and IF nothing else next to or around it would be affected, then the DFD, present, would let the fire burn out. Why? The burned structure would stand there, and in two weeks, someone else decided to set it on fire, and you would be wasting 2, sometimes 3 times the T & M on a structure that was irreparable anyway. I have no problem with that. It's the DPD setting structures on fire in plain view that bothers me.

Firemen always have the discretion to not enter a building if it is not safe or risk their lives if they do not have enough manpower to respond to fires in progress. If this is policy, I would like to see it in writing. The video showed direction being given to the fireman which is very different than written policy being put in place.

Either way, this DOES NOT EXCUSE the person[[s) responsible for setting the fires. If they were not set in the first place, firefighters would not be put in these situations where they have to make life and death decisions and risk jeopardizing their safety. No firefighter enjoys sitting there watching a structure burn. That is how this is being portrayed in this post and there is nothing right about this.

[Shai_Hulud]

3. How do you figure I'm not just as appalled as you? What exactly are you supposed to do when the people who you are supposed to trust are as much the criminals as the ones they go after? We've had to bury innocent people we loved who were innocent bystanders to some of this shit. The lessons learned weren't: Go run and tell the first chance you get, because you wont end up in the same shape your dead buddy is in.

There are problems with this story...

This has been going on for years and no one has the wherewithal to get video evidence, or log dates and times of police activity and fires and send it to the feds, or to the tv station?

If we were still in the Kwame era I might have believed that such a story could have been squashed, but we aren't. With all the other scandals revolving around city government, police and fire why would this not be exposed?

If the police, or any one else, burn down a drug house the dealers will simply move to the next available house and there will always be one. Even if the goal was the most nefarious possible, to completely empty the entire neighborhood, that would be a years long project and exposure would be basically guaranteed. How is that less work than busting up a neighborhood drug ring?

[Dbest]

Thanx, but I'm well aware both of the DFD policy on blighted structures, [[which I agree with) and Charlie Leduff's story. detroitsgweniverestory is completely different. Her contention is the DPD, [[notice the letter change) rolls into a neighborhood, much like ISIS, and purposely ignites structures as retaliation for neighborhood would-be drug lords. Apples and oranges.

Gotcha, except for the part about ISIS, is ISIS even real?

[Dbest]

Firemen always have the discretion to not enter a building if it is not safe or risk their lives if they do not have enough manpower to respond to fires in progress. If this is policy, I would like to see it in writing. The video showed direction being given to the fireman which is very different than written policy being put in place.

Either way, this DOES NOT EXCUSE the person[[s) responsible for setting the fires. If they were not set in the first place, firefighters would not be put in these situations where they have to make life and death decisions and risk jeopardizing their safety. No firefighter enjoys sitting there watching a structure burn. That is how this is being portrayed in this post and there is nothing right about this.

I'm sorry if the realities of the world are too much for you to fathom. Go beyond the cliche answers from the media and exercise some critical thinking, that's if you are even capable...

[softailrider]

I'm not at all shocked by the OP's allegations. Having worked in the insurance industry for the past 36 1/2 years and counting I have heard from time to time that the police or the DFD set a house on fire. What their reasoning is for committing that crime is a question I can't answer.

As far as dirty cops shaking down drug dealers we've heard about that for decades. When you drive through the city and see the open air drug markets in operation, it's obvious the police are in a lot of instances turning a blind eye to the situation.

[DetroitBoy]

I'm sorry if the realities of the world are too much for you to fathom. Go beyond the cliche answers from the media and exercise some critical thinking, that's if you are even capable...

I understand critical thinking very well. A lot better than you and other people from Detroit who think they can break the law and expect to get away with it. The times they are a changing for people who think can can do whatever they want and tear up neighborhoods without punishment.
It may not happen overnight, but the city is being taken back from the hoodlums who think they own it.

[Dbest]

I understand critical thinking very well. A lot better than you and other people from Detroit who think they can break the law and expect to get away with it. The times they are a changing for people who think can can do whatever they want and tear up neighborhoods without punishment.
It may not happen overnight, but the city is being taken back from the hoodlums who think they own it.

A Sphincter says what?

[Jimaz]

A Sphincter says what?

Something Weird Exploitica 10