Any cons regarding Cranbrook Schools?

[Towne Cluber]

• "One drawback might be that because it draws from a fairly large area kids may not have any classmates near them."
  
  This is also a positive. Classmates from all over the Metro area, State, Country, and World certainly opens one up to a wider range of perspectives and experiences.
  
  
  
  
  
• "It's generally considered a bit inferior academically to Detroit Country Day"
  
  This is not accurate. The two schools are considered equal. Detroit Country Day is sometimes said to have slightly stronger math and sciences...whereas Cranbrook is said to have somewhat stronger English, History, Foreign Language, and Performing/Fine Arts programs.
  
  "If you live in Birmingham or Bloomfield districts [[as well as a few others), the public schools are about as strong, so there's really no academic advantage to Cranbrook. The advantages are primarily smaller class size and snob appeal."
  
  This isn't accurate. Cranbrook and Detroit Country Day are seen as far more advanced academic environments than even their nearby public schools.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  "Outside of the midwest, employers are not as moved by the name on a resume as the school would lead prospective students to believe"

Unfortunately, this highly debatable. I think that phenomenon is still pretty strong and I don't think it has anything to do with the Midwest.

"There are less expensive private schools and also the surrounding public school districts - Birmingham, Bloomfield, Troy, Rochester will prepare students just as well academically for college."

Obviously school is what the individual student makes of it, but there are still major differences in the overall caliber of education between the Cranbrooks and Detroit Country Days of the world, and even the topic public schools.

"There isn't as much of a local community tie to school like you may find in other places"

• Actually, most Cranbrook students that aren't from the area end up developing a fondness for Metro Detroit and Michigan. They generally come back to visit and maintain some sort of ties to the area, including attend college here.
  
  "Athletics: Cranbrook is more known for the arts, sciences, and academics. While they occasionally will have an all-state cross country, track, field hockey, or lacrosse team they I believe are a Class B-C or Div III school. programs."
  
  Actually, Cranbrook and Detroit Country Day have comparable overall athletic departments. Cranbrook Hockey is much better than DCD, and DCD Football/Basketball is much better than Cranbrook. All other sports are about equal. Furthermore, Class/Division is based on school size, not ability. Cranbrook is about 100 students larger than Detroit Country Day.
  
  
  
  "I don't think there will be any disadvantage in terms of college admissions were a student to attend Bloomfield or Seaholm. They do about as well in terms of sending kids to the Ivies and the like."

Unfortunately, this isn't anywhere close to accurate. This Ivies are impossibly competitive in admissions these days and stregth of high school curriculum plays a significant role.

• "Possibly, but man, those private schools schools on the East Coast seem to produce a lot of braggarts."
  Perhaps, but I've met/known a ton of people who brag about having attended Cass Tech and Renaissance.
  
  
  
  
• 
  
  "Cranbrook draws more heavily from immediate surroundings [[Bloomfield-Birmingham), is richer, local students are traditionally more WASP and less diverse [[somewhat fewer black, Asian, Jewish and international). Country Day draws from a wider geography [[lots of Detroit kids esp. Palmer Woods area and lots of Asian kids from all over the region), has a reputation for stronger academics and stronger sports programs, has less social prestige"
  
  
  This isn't at all accurate. 1/3 of Cranbrook students are boarders from all over the State, Country, and World.
  
  "When I attended the former Andover High, we had more kids attending the Ivies than either Cranbrook or Country Day, and more kids attending Michigan than any school in Oakland County."
  
  When you attended Andover, it also had several hundred more students than either Cranbrook or Detroit Country Day, which send higher percentages to UofM than any other schools.
  tends to be very heavily Cranbrook/DCD.
  
  
  
  
  
  "Public schools are more "real world", IMO, and there is no disadvantage for university admissions."
  
  In some senses yes, in other senses no. Most public schools tend to represent communities where most residents are of the same general socio-economic background. Private schools, particularly Cranbrook and Detroit Country Day draw students from a wide geographic area and there are often great socio-economic differences as well.
  
  "DCD is much more diverse than any of the other private schools in that area of Oakland County too. It tends to draw ex-pats, and also minorities from the upper-middle and upper class. Either people who live in areas where the local schools are not as strong [[e.g, Southfield, DPS, Oak Park) or where they many not feel comfortable in the public schools that lack diversity [[e.g., Birmingham, Bloomfield)"
  
  
  
  
  
  DCD and Cranbrook are pretty equal in diversity. DCD has slightly more Black [[due in large part to closer proximity to Detroit/Southfield and greater emphasis on their football/basketball teams) and Indian students. Cranbrook has more Jewish and Asian [[including a sizable portion of International Asian) students.
  
  
  
  

[Willi]

Other private schools exist in the area , like Roeper
http://www.roeper.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roeper_School_[[Michigan)

Roeper kids have to pass a rigorous assessment up front
so it's not just pay to attend, it's cream of the crop.
Kids learn more by hanging around smarter kids.

[Towne Cluber]

I don't think any private school is "just pay to attend". I know that DCD and Cranbrook also have rigorous entrance exams, in addition to assessment of grades from a prospective student's previous school.

[Willi]

Roeper doesn't focus or put money towards USA football, as they have no team.
Some might see this as an advantage , depending on the family.
http://www.roeper.org/Athletic-FAQs

[Bham1982]

• "One drawback might be that because it draws from a fairly large area kids may not have any classmates near them."
  
  This is also a positive. Classmates from all over the Metro area, State, Country, and World certainly opens one up to a wider range of perspectives and experiences.
  
• "It's generally considered a bit inferior academically to Detroit Country Day"
  
  This is not accurate. The two schools are considered equal. Detroit Country Day is sometimes said to have slightly stronger math and sciences...whereas Cranbrook is said to have somewhat stronger English, History, Foreign Language, and Performing/Fine Arts programs.
  
  "If you live in Birmingham or Bloomfield districts [[as well as a few others), the public schools are about as strong, so there's really no academic advantage to Cranbrook. The advantages are primarily smaller class size and snob appeal."
  
  This isn't accurate. Cranbrook and Detroit Country Day are seen as far more advanced academic environments than even their nearby public schools.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  "Outside of the midwest, employers are not as moved by the name on a resume as the school would lead prospective students to believe"

Unfortunately, this highly debatable. I think that phenomenon is still pretty strong and I don't think it has anything to do with the Midwest.

"There are less expensive private schools and also the surrounding public school districts - Birmingham, Bloomfield, Troy, Rochester will prepare students just as well academically for college."

Obviously school is what the individual student makes of it, but there are still major differences in the overall caliber of education between the Cranbrooks and Detroit Country Days of the world, and even the topic public schools.

"There isn't as much of a local community tie to school like you may find in other places"

• Actually, most Cranbrook students that aren't from the area end up developing a fondness for Metro Detroit and Michigan. They generally come back to visit and maintain some sort of ties to the area, including attend college here.
  
  "Athletics: Cranbrook is more known for the arts, sciences, and academics. While they occasionally will have an all-state cross country, track, field hockey, or lacrosse team they I believe are a Class B-C or Div III school. programs."
  
  Actually, Cranbrook and Detroit Country Day have comparable overall athletic departments. Cranbrook Hockey is much better than DCD, and DCD Football/Basketball is much better than Cranbrook. All other sports are about equal. Furthermore, Class/Division is based on school size, not ability. Cranbrook is about 100 students larger than Detroit Country Day.
  
  
  
  
  "I don't think there will be any disadvantage in terms of college admissions were a student to attend Bloomfield or Seaholm. They do about as well in terms of sending kids to the Ivies and the like."

Unfortunately, this isn't anywhere close to accurate. This Ivies are impossibly competitive in admissions these days and stregth of high school curriculum plays a significant role.

• "Possibly, but man, those private schools schools on the East Coast seem to produce a lot of braggarts."
  Perhaps, but I've met/known a ton of people who brag about having attended Cass Tech and Renaissance.
• 
  
  "Cranbrook draws more heavily from immediate surroundings [[Bloomfield-Birmingham), is richer, local students are traditionally more WASP and less diverse [[somewhat fewer black, Asian, Jewish and international). Country Day draws from a wider geography [[lots of Detroit kids esp. Palmer Woods area and lots of Asian kids from all over the region), has a reputation for stronger academics and stronger sports programs, has less social prestige"
  
  
  This isn't at all accurate. 1/3 of Cranbrook students are boarders from all over the State, Country, and World.
  
  "When I attended the former Andover High, we had more kids attending the Ivies than either Cranbrook or Country Day, and more kids attending Michigan than any school in Oakland County."
  
  When you attended Andover, it also had several hundred more students than either Cranbrook or Detroit Country Day, which send higher percentages to UofM than any other schools.
  tends to be very heavily Cranbrook/DCD.
  
  
  
  
  
  "Public schools are more "real world", IMO, and there is no disadvantage for university admissions."
  
  In some senses yes, in other senses no. Most public schools tend to represent communities where most residents are of the same general socio-economic background. Private schools, particularly Cranbrook and Detroit Country Day draw students from a wide geographic area and there are often great socio-economic differences as well.
  
  "DCD is much more diverse than any of the other private schools in that area of Oakland County too. It tends to draw ex-pats, and also minorities from the upper-middle and upper class. Either people who live in areas where the local schools are not as strong [[e.g, Southfield, DPS, Oak Park) or where they many not feel comfortable in the public schools that lack diversity [[e.g., Birmingham, Bloomfield)"
  
  DCD and Cranbrook are pretty equal in diversity. DCD has slightly more Black [[due in large part to closer proximity to Detroit/Southfield and greater emphasis on their football/basketball teams) and Indian students. Cranbrook has more Jewish and Asian [[including a sizable portion of International Asian) students.

I'm not going to argue point-by-point, as there's no real arguing over subjective matters.

I think you're a Cranbrook grad or otherwise afflilated, and this is highly biasing your responses.

What isn't subjective is actual human behavior. Really all of your claims can be rejected by actually observing human behavior.

Families tend to put their kids in Country Day more for academic reasons and Cranbrook more for prestige reasons. No, fine arts are not equivalent to STEM disciplines.

People in good school districts tend to not put their kids in either school, regardless of financial means or academic aspirations. If you survey the richest families in Birmingham-Bloomfield, including familes with 8,9, and 10 figure wealth, 90%+ will have their kids in local publics.

In the U.S., privates are niche environments for very specific situations, and it's absurd to claim they offer better educations or outcomes than top public schools. The biggest feeder schools to the best universities in the nation are publics, and apples-to-apples academic outcomes are not better in privates. The #1 feeder school to Harvard is Stuyvesant, a NYC public high school.

And I would bet the vast majority of families would consider it a disadvantage to have fellow classmates spread throughout a large geography. In the real world, parents want their kids to have classmates, friends, carpool partners in close proximity. They want a "community", that's what the suburban ideal/mythos is all about.

[Towne Cluber]

Bham1982, I have to say that on this subject, you have no idea what you're talking about. I have connections to both DCD and Cranbrook, as well some other top private schools in the country. I'm also well-connected to the city of Detroit [[both neighborhoods and Downtown) and its suburbs.

"Families tend to put their kids in Country Day more for academic reasons and Cranbrook more for prestige reasons."

You keep repeating that highly subjective claim, but it simply isn't anywhere close to true. Let's give parents and students alike a little more credit than that.

" No, fine arts are not equivalent to STEM disciplines."

No one said they were...

People in good school districts tend to not put their kids in either school, regardless of financial means or academic aspirations. If you survey the richest families in Birmingham-Bloomfield, including familes with 8,9, and 10 figure wealth, 90%+ will have their kids in local publics.

Actually, it's the exact opposite of what you claim...and that's not just here locally.

"In the U.S., privates are niche environments for very specific situations, and it's absurd to claim they offer better educations or outcomes than top public schools."

I wish I knew how you were coming up with this stuff. From everything I've seen, with far more experience in this matter than you...the very top 5-10% of students at top public and private high schools are the same. After that, there's a big drop-off in the rest of the top 25%...and an incredible difference in the top 50% between the students in the top private schools versus the top public schools.

"The biggest feeder schools to the best universities in the nation are publics, and apples-to-apples academic outcomes are not better in privates. The #1 feeder school to Harvard is Stuyvesant, a NYC public high school."

Stuyvesant has 3300 students. The top public high schools in Metro Detroit are around 1000 students and the top Metro Detroit privates are hundreds less. Yes Stuyvesant sends a large NUMBER of students to elite schools...but the elite privates such as Deerfield, Choate, etc. send a higher percentage.

"And I would bet the vast majority of families would consider it a disadvantage to have fellow classmates spread throughout a large geography. In the real world, parents want their kids to have classmates, friends, carpool partners in close proximity. They want a "community", that's what the suburban ideal/mythos is all about."

That is entirely your opinion. Funny how I've heard countless people remark in amazement that their public school [[even the best of them) or regular private school doesn't have the type of bond/events/staying in touch [["community") that the alumni of top private schools have in terms of staying in touch with the school and each other. Funny how those from spread out geography manage that over people that live much closer to each other.

All of this isn't a knock on public schools by any stretch of the imagination, but at the same time, let's try to get accurate information about this subject out there.

[Willi]

Towne , you have the strength of 1 voice and 1 voice only, just like the rest of us.
We are going to need some real "studies", links, etc. to back up those claims/opinions.
Knowledge is always built of others, those that came before us, laid the foundation, so to speak.

Public school most definitely has its strengths, as kids get exposed to more real world stuff.
There is no sheltering, coddling, isolating, conditioning. It is not, always, pretty and nice.
Mental toughness comes in various flavors and some things cannot be bought at any price.
The home situation of parents, support by various parties, all play huge roles.

[Towne Cluber]

Willi, you previously tried to insinuate that Roeper was the only private school to have an entrance exam and that other schools are "just pay to attend"...so perhaps you should do some self-examination first. While you're at it, try to come up with something better than "USA football" because that was clearly grasping at straws.

I'm sure you're a smart person, look up some "real studies and links" for yourself. Maybe you could start with the entrance exam topic?

[Willi]

No I won't Towne - You are on the hook with your Full Page posts of :
"""From everything I've seen, with far more experience in this matter than you...""""
Back up that experience, the insight, the opinion you have Towne.
I never did other people's homework, and I won't start by doing yours

There are numerous private schools in the area - I merely opened the OP eyes to one
There are 1,018 private schools in Michigan, most religiously affiliated.

[mwilbert]

That is entirely your opinion. Funny how I've heard countless people remark in amazement that their public school [[even the best of them) or regular private school doesn't have the type of bond/events/staying in touch [["community") that the alumni of top private schools have in terms of staying in touch with the school and each other. Funny how those from spread out geography manage that over people that live much closer to each other.

Although I mostly agree with your points, here I believe you are talking about a different thing than Bham. I think he is talking about contact while attending school and you are talking about contact in later years. You may well be right about the post-graduate networks, but when one is in school, there isn't really any substitute for living in proximity to your school and your classmates. Of course boarding at school accomplishes that as well.

[Willi]

A lot of private schools have no entrance exam, they are religious in nature.
So as long as you pay, you are in.
- As for the football reference, some ARE worldly wise and know soccer trumps football.

No doubt some parents would gladly get the rugrat out of the house and drop him/her off at the boarding school so they can live their lives - without - the kids being a hindrance.
Some private schools do all the babysitting

[Towne Cluber]

MWilbert, I understand your point...but consider that if someone didn't feel a strong connection to their classmates and school as a student, he or she probably isn't going to keep in contact with them after they graduate. Also keep in mind that top private schools require participation in athletics and/or extra-curricular activities, which keeps students at school much longer than the typical school day. That added time spent together is more than equivalent to living near the school/classmates.

Willi, all types of schools have been labeled as "babysitting factories", so nothing new there. I played soccer, and to suggest that it makes one any more "worldly" than anyone else is beyond silly. Keep grasping at straws.

Unless someone is from a very rare community that is truly socio-economically diverse, he or she isn't any more exposed to "real world stuff" than most other people. I've mentored, coached, worked with, and/or been friends with plenty of public school grads from Detroit, the U.P., etc. that didn't know anyone and anything much different than themselves until they moved away, went to work, and/or college. In other words, most people [[regardless of where they went to school) are relatively sheltered, coddled, isolated, and conditioned.

[Bham1982]

Towne, I was referring to geographic proximity during school years, not afterwards. I think parents would generally prefer their children attending a school where their classmates were in proximity, especially in the earlier years.

If you're saying that Cranbrook [[or that typology) has a better post-graduate network, especially nationally, I definitely agree. There is no real institutionalized network for public schools, at all. Not once have I been formally contacted for donations/alumni anything since graduation. A Cranbrook would be perfect for someone who values this.

Regarding familes of means, Cranbrook has 500 day students, DCD not much more. Both schools have struggled for students in recent years [[not due to lack of desirability, of course, but due to extremely high tuition costs in the face of a less-than robust local economy).

Birmingham Schools have over 8000 students, Bloomfield has 6500, W. Bloomfield has 6500, Troy has over 12,000, Rochester has around 15,000. So those five districts alone have around 50,000 students, most from families with good incomes and some degree of resources. Looking at the relative enrollment numbers, it would be very hard to argue that a large proportion of local elites have their kids enrolled in either Cranbrook or DCD. The schools just aren't that big.

[Towne Cluber]

Bham82, we're both referring to geographic proximity during school years [[in addition to my point about afterwards). I can see a case for parents caring about proximity in elementary and maybe middle school, but not anywhere nearly as much for high school.

As I mentioned above, top private schools require participation in athletics and/or extra-curricular activities, which keeps students at school much longer than the typical school day. That added time spent together, as well as the unique type of bonding that takes place in intense [[academic) environments is more than equivalent to living near the school/classmates. Dorm life is a unique bond all its own.

Cranbrook has approximately 790 high school students [[approximately 525 day). Detroit Country Day has about 690 high school students [[all day). The numbers you quoted [[I'm assuming they're accurate) are entire school districts [[K-12), so the comparison isn't quite apples to apples. Keep in mind that Cranbrook and DCD also have elementary and middle schools as well as the fact that approximately 2/3 of these schools student bodies will come in for only the high school portion [[many coming from public elementary/middle schools).

Furthermore, DCD and Cranbrook have not "struggled for students in recent years". In fact, they are both at record enrollments with waiting lists. It amazes me too in the face of a very tough economy, but like paying for youth sports, parents will sacrifice for education. Another fitting analogy is the fact that in times of economic trouble, colleges and universities tend to see high enrollment. It seems somewhat counter-intuitive, but it actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it.

Also note that 1/3 of students at schools such as these receive financial aid and these types of schools have paid special attention to financial aid fundraising, especially in recent years.

[Bham1982]

B
Furthermore, DCD and Cranbrook have not "struggled for students in recent years". In fact, they are both at record enrollments with waiting lists.

Now this I know is not true.

I have a family contact who is upper-level management of one of these institutions, and both Cranbrook and DCD have had drops in enrollment, and are nowhere near "record enrollment".

Cranbrook has dealt with drops in enrollment by stepping up international recruitment, and so the share of boarding students has risen. Cranbrook now has dozens of students from China and Korea, and even has random students from places like Kazakhstan. The day school population is lower than in the past, though.

And this is not a Cranbrook/DCD thing, at all. Almost all local private schools have had drops in enrollment in recent years. You have a weaker economy, fewer kids to draw from, and the "soft" factors that attract families to privates [[social prestige and the like) are not as relevant as in past generations. It's kind of the same reason that country clubs are down somewhat. It isn't that they're "bad", it's just that demographic trends are working in a different way.

[Bham1982]

Also note that 1/3 of students at schools such as these receive financial aid and these types of schools have paid special attention to financial aid fundraising, especially in recent years.

Cranbrook does this, other schools do not. Cranbrook has a huge endowment, DCD does not.

If you are a "poor kid" in Pontiac, you may have a shot at Cranbrook. You won't have a shot at DCD unless you can dunk a basketball or you're the next Yo Yo Ma. DCD isn't rich enough.

[Towne Cluber]

Bham82 you can believe [[and even post) whatever you wish. I have more than "one contact" in the field, in addition to my own personal involvement in this subject. 1/3 of students receiving financial aid at the top independent schools is [[also) a national average. Cranbrook has stepped up international student recruitment but has always had students from the Middle/Far East. And yes, Cranbrook has a huge endowment, but it also has huge expenses in maintaining a large, National Historic Landmark campus. Please note that financial aid comes almost entirely from [[annual) fundraising, not endowment.

Again, enrollment numbers are up and steady, with waiting lists. In fact, DCD and Cranbrook have moved up a division in certain sports due to increased enrollments compared to years past. Both schools are have more students now than they've ever had in the past.

For whatever reason you're stuck on this "social prestige" thing. By the way, to further refute your claims about the academics at Cranbrook, you should also note that the school is in the top 25th percentile nationwide in terms of secondary schools admissions selectivity as well as the fact that 33-40% of all AP [[Advanced Placement) Scholars in Michigan attend Cranbrook.

Yes there's a weaker economy and fewer school age students, however, there have also been declines in overall quality in most public school districts...making private schools all the more attractive.

[Bham1982]

Again, enrollment numbers are up and steady, with waiting lists. In fact, DCD and Cranbrook have moved up a division in certain sports due to increased enrollments compared to years past. Both schools are have more students now than they've ever had in the past.

None of this is true. It's bullshit.

[Willi]

I guess Roeper isn't one of the schools that Towne has much association with.
They seem to get along just fine with no USA football team [[ i.e they have great soccer).

Towne also refuses to list """anything"" other than his own, singular, individual, opinion.
So treat it as exactly that - an opinion of only 1 person - and NOT anything above that.

[Towne Cluber]

Willi, I've listed stats along with informed information which you are free to try to refute with other stats and informed information which you are free to source. In fact, YOU are one of two that has "refused to list 'anything' other than your own, singular, individual, opinion. So treat it as exactly that - an opinion of only 1 person - and NOT anything above that."

By the way, "USA Football" is a national governing organization but not the name of a sport itself.

[Willi]

Wouldn't want those INTERNATIONAL folks with green cards getting football, rugby and soccer
mixed up in case they read English as a second language . My parents were not from USA.

Listing stats is easy - WHERE did you pull that opinion from Towne, show us the reports please
Unless you show us something other than what you typed , its hogwash and UN-substantiated

[anonJD]

I wish I knew how you were coming up with this stuff. From everything I've seen, with far more experience in this matter than you...the very top 5-10% of students at top public and private high schools are the same. After that, there's a big drop-off in the rest of the top 25%...and an incredible difference in the top 50% between the students in the top private schools versus the top public schools.

I think this is why the execs at work send their kids to these two schools. You can't bank on your kid being a top 5%, so you look at the middle 75% outcomes and it's night and day. Even more alarming is the bottom quartile comparisons, where you'll have burnouts and weirdos and delinquent kids with undiagnosed psych issues that have to be allowed in the publics. I mean, perhaps you want you daughter mingling with a drug dealer or some illiterate football player the public gives C-minuses to for showing up, but I can see why parents would like to avoid that.

But can someone clarify just where the middle of the pack kids from CK and DCD go to college? If they still go to say Michigan, are they more prepared to aim in tougher concentrations like pre-med or Ross vs. the Seaholm middle pack kids? What exactly is the average student getting for a $100k?

Also, isn't part of Southfield, Troy and Berkeley in the Birmingham district? And Bloomfield is consolidating their high schools into a massive has building renovation. Seems like there are drawbacks and risks in the public. The privates provide a bit of piece of mind.

[mwilbert]

But can someone clarify just where the middle of the pack kids from CK and DCD go to college? If they still go to say Michigan, are they more prepared to aim in tougher concentrations like pre-med or Ross vs. the Seaholm middle pack kids? What exactly is the average student getting for a $100k?

Well, if you go to Cranbrook you get to spend a lot of time at Cranbrook, which ought to be worth something.

But in general kids at these schools aren't going anyplace they couldn't have gone by going to a decent public school if they took advantage of the opportunities there, although they may actually go different places than the typical kid in even a good public school because their parents can likely afford more expensive options. It is also true that sometime counselors at any school, but especially privates, have relationships with particular schools that may get someone accepted who would not be if they were at a different institution. But the main thing students are getting is a support system that makes it more likely that they will actually get the classes, the tutoring, the advice, and the extracurricular programs that result in them completing high school with the kind of paper trail they need to get into the best colleges that their aptitude and work ethic will permit, and likely also preparing them to perform as well as possible at those colleges.

But there are limits to what this can accomplish. When you are talking about "middle of the pack kids", they are likely to have a lot of difficulty getting into better schools than Michigan regardless. However, you are almost certainly reducing the downside.

[softailrider]

I think this is why the execs at work send their kids to these two schools. You can't bank on your kid being a top 5%, so you look at the middle 75% outcomes and it's night and day. Even more alarming is the bottom quartile comparisons, where you'll have burnouts and weirdos and delinquent kids with undiagnosed psych issues that have to be allowed in the publics. I mean, perhaps you want you daughter mingling with a drug dealer or some illiterate football player the public gives C-minuses to for showing up, but I can see why parents would like to avoid that.

But can someone clarify just where the middle of the pack kids from CK and DCD go to college? If they still go to say Michigan, are they more prepared to aim in tougher concentrations like pre-med or Ross vs. the Seaholm middle pack kids? What exactly is the average student getting for a $100k?

Also, isn't part of Southfield, Troy and Berkeley in the Birmingham district? And Bloomfield is consolidating their high schools into a massive has building renovation. Seems like there are drawbacks and risks in the public. The privates provide a bit of piece of mind.

There is a small portion of Troy that's in the Birmingham district, if you live west of Beach Road you'll go to Birmingham schools.

[Bham1982]

I think this is why the execs at work send their kids to these two schools. You can't bank on your kid being a top 5%, so you look at the middle 75% outcomes and it's night and day.

I don't think there's any difference whatsoever. You have to first control for the household in question. Would a wealthy family with committed parents willing to sacrifice for their kids education have differing life outcomes if their kids went to, say, Farmington Schools, instead of Cranbrook? Doubtful. Perhaps the small minority of parents who choose these schools believe there will be different outcomes, but this is highly unlikely.

Even in publics, parents tend to exaggerate the importance of local school differences. If you have involved, committed parents, outcomes between districts, or between publics and privates, will be minimal or nonexistent.

Also, isn't part of Southfield, Troy and Berkeley in the Birmingham district? And Bloomfield is consolidating their high schools into a massive has building renovation. Seems like there are drawbacks and risks in the public. The privates provide a bit of piece of mind.

I would wager there is a far higher proportion of kids from "non-prestigious" areas in DCD than in Birmingham and Bloomfield. Cranbrook too, but to a lesser extent [[Cranbrook gets lots of kids from the immediate Cranbrook area). Not sure why having 5% of Birmingham schools from Southfield [[the horror!) when DCD draws primarily from districts other than Birmingham-Bloomfield. Lots of Detroit kids in DCD.