Armed robber thwarted at Packard - "no crime committed" say police

[Dan Wesson]

Nothing like exciting commentary to accompany the photographs.

Vini, Vidi, Vici

[ABetterDetroit]

YES!

A police lineup serves two purposes:

1) They may actually catch the perp.

2) It sends out a message to everybody else that this sh*t ain't gonna be tolerated anymore and the police are cleaning up the city. Word travels fast that the police are taking matters like this seriously when people are getting dragged in for a lineup. This becomes a deterrence for any future wannabe robbers.

I would guess that you watch to much TV. Arrest people based on what? Again hoodie? Skin colour? From the OP Post they have nothing to go on. The point is they do have areas that need to be patrolled. Known bad guys with mug shots in the car that they should be looking for because the already have warrants for arrest with evidence etc... Radio calls that need to be answered. Detectives with huge case loads already aren't all that interested in taking on a his word vs. his word case when they have cases with actual evidence that need the work. Of course if anyone is the type that always knows exactly how a professional should do their job because they know everything this is all moot. I am always amazed in my career when I am called in to solve problems because some idiot called in a pro to do the work and then told him exactly how it needed to be done and when I call the pro he states "that's how they wanted it so I did it, it's not what I recommended or would have done myself" let the pros do there job that's why their pros.

[Honky Tonk]

I was just in shock that four cop cars showed up while one unit took our info and description the other three just hung around chatting with each other until they said "okay, we have your information" The DPD showed up very quickly but not one took off to roam the area looking for two in hoodies with a gun. Night Timer does not know the area but I do very well for the last 14 years and that's why I encourage people to hire someone who does know an area like this if they want to photograph it. The areas in Detroit are constantly changing and archiving these changes I believe are important. Night Timer is not an imbedded reporter in the Gaza strip but is taking his chances documenting the change that is happening in Detroit and I have a lot of respect for that. I only wish I had taken more pics with my 35mm back in the 90s to compare it to todays sights. Night Timer has put a lot of time and money into coming here to Detroit to photograph and interview people from all over Detroit and he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it.

Just curious, what is Django Tours "Plan B" in case Night Timer didn't or doesn't make it into your truck in time? What if the unthinkable happens, and he does get shot, what's the plan? "He's documenting the change", is he staying for the Packard Plant rehab? Detroit may not be the Gaza Strip, but the dangers are very real. Look @ the poor kid from the Nethearlands. Shot in face, unidentified body, lying tagged in the morgue. That certainly would dampen that cavalier spirit.

[Django]

What is plan B? You give up the gear, if he gets shot or I get shot we wind up in the hospital or the morgue. What is the point of your questions. We don't all just sit at home and play it safe, some of us take chances in life. I follow my gut and do the best I can. Are we going to stop shooting the Packard? hell no.

[gnome]

Just curious, what is Django Tours "Plan B" in case Night Timer didn't or doesn't make it into your truck in time? What if the unthinkable happens, and he does get shot, what's the plan? "He's documenting the change", is he staying for the Packard Plant rehab? Detroit may not be the Gaza Strip, but the dangers are very real. Look @ the poor kid from the Nethearlands. Shot in face, unidentified body, lying tagged in the morgue. That certainly would dampen that cavalier spirit.

You are asking a hypothetical question and drawing conclusions based on an answer that was not given; then you correlate a separate incident with little in common with the OP scenario.

i have known Django for awhile and he does not conduct his tours with anything close to a cavalier spirit. You seem to be blaming the victims in this scenario. By extension anyone living within the metroplex could be blamed if they become a crime victim. After all, if you are robbed while changing your car tire, you should have paid extra for run-flat tires and not had the hubris to drive on a public roadway. Everyone knows the roads here are terrible, so it's your own fault if you get robbed.

I am afraid the logical extension of your premise condemns us all to the callous disregard of our countrymen.

Moreover, the second guessing game has no winners. To posit a set of events that didn't happen can go on forever. What if the truck had stalled? What if the gunman stumbled and fell under the truck? What if Night Timer had swung his tripod and clocked the gunman? What if the Security Guard was there and got involved? What if an oncoming car sideswiped the truck ... on and on to no useful conclusion.

[Danny]

What is plan B? You give up the gear, if he gets shot or I get shot we wind up in the hospital or the morgue. What is the point of your questions. We don't all just sit at home and play it safe, some of us take chances in life. I follow my gut and do the best I can. Are we going to stop shooting the Packard? hell no.

My advice Django, Don't go out the ghettos of Detroit exploring abandon buildings alone or with anyone else without protection.

[Honky Tonk]

You are asking a hypothetical question and drawing conclusions based on an answer that was not given; then you correlate a separate incident with little in common with the OP scenario.

i have known Django for awhile and he does not conduct his tours with anything close to a cavalier spirit. You seem to be blaming the victims in this scenario. By extension anyone living within the metroplex could be blamed if they become a crime victim. After all, if you are robbed while changing your car tire, you should have paid extra for run-flat tires and not had the hubris to drive on a public roadway. Everyone knows the roads here are terrible, so it's your own fault if you get robbed.

I am afraid the logical extension of your premise condemns us all to the callous disregard of our countrymen.

Moreover, the second guessing game has no winners. To posit a set of events that didn't happen can go on forever. What if the truck had stalled? What if the gunman stumbled and fell under the truck? What if Night Timer had swung his tripod and clocked the gunman? What if the Security Guard was there and got involved? What if an oncoming car sideswiped the truck ... on and on to no useful conclusion.

Thanx for explaining and for your opinion. To me your tire analogy comparison would be akin to "awww @#&$, I got a flat tire, hope I can change it and get out of here in one piece" to "you know what, dammit, I'm going to drive to the corner of Warren and Bewick, unarmed, and change my tire just to prove I can". When people post things like "As the car edged forward, the youth was now beside the flatbed, with me lying in it. I could've easily been shot", and "he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it", a lot of questions pop up in my head.

[Danny]

I'm sure they were white youths LOL

No, there were black males wearing Trayvon Martins out hustling in the ghetto hoods of Detroit looking for trouble. They have their piece and ready to rob, shoot and kill anyone who stands in their way. They are not afraid of the police, getting busted or going to prison for the rest of their lives. They want something that society is not giving to them and they will take something from any innocent victim at any cost. That's the way it is in Detroit.

[Honky Tonk]

My advice Django, Don't go out the ghettos of Detroit exploring abandon buildings alone or with anyone else without protection.

The best suggestion yet.

[gnome]

Thanx for explaining and for your opinion. To me your tire analogy comparison would be akin to "awww @#&$, I got a flat tire, hope I can change it and get out of here in one piece" to "you know what, dammit, I'm going to drive to the corner of Warren and Bewick, unarmed, and change my tire just to prove I can". When people post things like "As the car edged forward, the youth was now beside the flatbed, with me lying in it. I could've easily been shot", and "he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it", a lot of questions pop up in my head.

I think I see where you are going with that, and if I do, I might not disagree; however, my previous comment was based on the general dislike for hypotheticals. We don't know what would have happened with Plan B because Plan A worked. While they might be fun things to play with, hypotheticals usually lead to conclusions not held in evidence.

For my pennies, Danny has it right, but Django makes an ok life for himself with giving tours. Through the years, folks have come from all over for tours he gives. Books have been written about those tours and they authors have come to this forum to laud Django for his efforts.

to my knowledge no one has ever been injured on one of his tours, no one robbed and no one disappointed.

[Hastings]

The best suggestion yet.

Agreed,with a name like that I'd expect a Colt SAA at the least. Tool up Django

[davewindsor]

I would guess that you watch to much TV. Arrest people based on what? Again hoodie? Skin colour? From the OP Post they have nothing to go on. The point is they do have areas that need to be patrolled. Known bad guys with mug shots in the car that they should be looking for because the already have warrants for arrest with evidence etc... Radio calls that need to be answered. Detectives with huge case loads already aren't all that interested in taking on a his word vs. his word case when they have cases with actual evidence that need the work. Of course if anyone is the type that always knows exactly how a professional should do their job because they know everything this is all moot. I am always amazed in my career when I am called in to solve problems because some idiot called in a pro to do the work and then told him exactly how it needed to be done and when I call the pro he states "that's how they wanted it so I did it, it's not what I recommended or would have done myself" let the pros do there job that's why their pros.

If a guy in a hoodie brandished a gun and did the same thing in the parking lot at Somerset Mall in Troy, I wonder if the police would say, f' it, I'm not writing up a report because this is not a crime or looking around the neighbourhood and rounding up suspects that match that general description. Seriously, do you think cops would do that elsewhere in metro??

If the cops are so busy, why did 4 patrol cars show up??

This is a serious matter. Suppose the perp that brandished the gun actually tried to pull the trigger, but his gun jammed or he forgot to take off the safety [[there are dumb robbers out there) there could have been a fatality. And because they didn't take him off the street, the next victim could very well be a fatality. But to you, someone brandishing a gun in an attempted robbery is not a crime.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

On a separate but similar topic, maybe I'm too charitable, but I almost feel sorry for those "stick-up kids" yesterday; three young men in their 20s [[in the prime of their lives) living such a negative and desperate lifestyle. They wanted to do me harm, but I still feel for those poor, young men.[/QUOTE]

N-T, Man I hate to rain on your good karma vibe because I can hear you are speaking from the heart but don't for a minute feel sorry for these scum bags who traded in their "human being card" for a Glock... They place no value on your life and would leave you lying in a pool of your own blood for a five spot. Once you have been victimized your life is never the same, I was
carjacked and shot at 23 years ago on the eastside, I thought I was fairly street smart but dude got the drop on me just the same....ya got to know your environment

[DetroitHabitater]

Had a similar instance where I watched a young man empty a gun at ground level [[what he was shooting at was behind a building from my view, but presumably at people since it was St. Patricks day and people were everywhere).

I called the cops, by the time they showed up all parties had fled and they weren't even interested in the 9mm luger shells on the ground. They didn't even document it. Most cities have "their finest" but DPD is "the worst".

Whenever I hear about crime statistics in Detroit "going down" I just shake my head.

[ABetterDetroit]

If a guy in a hoodie brandished a gun and did the same thing in the parking lot at Somerset Mall in Troy, I wonder if the police would say, f' it, I'm not writing up a report because this is not a crime or looking around the neighbourhood and rounding up suspects that match that general description. Seriously, do you think cops would do that elsewhere in metro??

If the cops are so busy, why did 4 patrol cars show up??

This is a serious matter. Suppose the perp that brandished the gun actually tried to pull the trigger, but his gun jammed or he forgot to take off the safety [[there are dumb robbers out there) there could have been a fatality. And because they didn't take him off the street, the next victim could very well be a fatality. But to you, someone brandishing a gun in an attempted robbery is not a crime.

4 patrol cars showed up because they wanted to catch a bad guy with a gun.
What description are you talking about? OP said "hoodies" was all they had. Here in America you can't just start "rounding up suspects" anywhere. Where is this Windsor you hail from? Old gangster movies? nazi Germany? Or some third world dictatorship?

[davewindsor]

4 patrol cars showed up because they wanted to catch a bad guy with a gun.

Ya, they stopped what they were doing and showed up. So why didn't they finish what they started? Four patrol cars is enough resources to do it.

What description are you talking about? OP said "hoodies" was all they had.

Don't be ridiculous. There's a colour of the hoodie. There may be lettering on the hoodie. The person wearing the hoodie had a general height. There is a general weight. Was he wearing black jeans, blue jeans, track pants or shorts? Was his shoes white, red, black? There may be distinctive inflections in their voice. There's a difference between in the way a 15 year old and a 40 year old talk and move. There are a lot of factors that can narrow down the identification process. The OP said hoodie for expedience, but obviously there were other identifying factors. The PD is not gonna round up people wearing 10 different colours of hoodies.

Here in America you can't just start "rounding up suspects" anywhere. Where is this Windsor you hail from? Old gangster movies? nazi Germany? Or some third world dictatorship?

Are you kidding me?! They do it all the time in other parts of America. Not too long ago, my dad was visiting Jacksonville Florida and stayed at a national franchise motel. After midnight, a few masked men kicked the door in, armed with shotguns, robbed him and my step mom and took off. He called the police. The police rounded up suspects who matched the general description, he identified them, and they were charged. They do it all over the country. They just are not doing it here.

[Django]

What set my alarm off was that they were wearing hoodies on a a hot summer day with hoods up. One was grey the other a darker color. Who the hell weares a sweat shirt on a 90 degree day. They were both about 5'6" both slim running at us with a gun, that's about all I noticed. The police seemed to be taking scribbled notes my Aussie friend said, seemingly to appease us as if he was doing something. Honestly even if the four cop cars did take off to scope out the few blocks where this happened on Concord the hoodies and guns were dumped and they most likely split up knowing full well we called the police on them so I doubt anything would have come up but it seems like they could have spared three of the four cars to check out the area but they all just hung out on Concord and E Grand Blvd until we left, not sure what they did after that.

[Honky Tonk]

What set my alarm off was that they were wearing hoodies on a a hot summer day with hoods up. One was grey the other a darker color. Who the hell weares a sweat shirt on a 90 degree day. They were both about 5'6" both slim running at us with a gun, that's about all I noticed. The police seemed to be taking scribbled notes my Aussie friend said, seemingly to appease us as if he was doing something. Honestly even if the four cop cars did take off to scope out the few blocks where this happened on Concord the hoodies and guns were dumped and they most likely split up knowing full well we called the police on them so I doubt anything would have come up but it seems like they could have spared three of the four cars to check out the area but they all just hung out on Concord and E Grand Blvd until we left, not sure what they did after that.

Your spider sense was dead on. People can post all the pseudo-racist, neo-nazi, Dr. Feelgood DPD crap they want on here. Street sense will tell you somethings up, and start making exit plans NOW. My only issue is you really need to start thinking about some kind of back-up plan. These guy's are targeting "spelunking" and photography people as victims. Things aren't as they were 15 years ago, but you know that. Too many stories floating around about the not-so-fortunates. You don't want to start your own thread about your demise.

[Dan Wesson]

but they, [[cops), all just hung out on Concord and E Grand Blvd until we left, not sure what they did after that.

There's saftey in numbers...

[neavling]

You too were at the wrong place and wrong time. Almost got killed by black males wearing hoodies. That would be a lesson to you both. Don't scope out any abandon buildings in the ghetto hoods in Detroit without some protection. I learn that while I did some snooping at some dangerous and abandon buildings in Detroit long ago. I have my piece with and my Street Prophets with me.

If you go into abandoned buildings with a gun, you could be charged with carrying a firearm while in the commission of a crime. Not a good idea.

[Django]

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

[Danny]

If you go into abandoned buildings with a gun, you could be charged with carrying a firearm while in the commission of a crime. Not a good idea.

As long as you have a firearm that is totally yours with a license [[not concealled) for protection. Please see second amendment of the Bill of Rights.

[neavling]

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

Danny, I'm not going to argue with you about the Second Amendment. I'm just telling you it is a crime to be in the possession of a firearm [[legally or not) while committing a crime.

[Dan Wesson]

Depends on which crime it is.

[ABetterDetroit]

Ya, they stopped what they were doing and showed up. So why didn't they finish what they started? Four patrol cars is enough resources to do it.



Don't be ridiculous. There's a colour of the hoodie. There may be lettering on the hoodie. The person wearing the hoodie had a general height. There is a general weight. Was he wearing black jeans, blue jeans, track pants or shorts? Was his shoes white, red, black? There may be distinctive inflections in their voice. There's a difference between in the way a 15 year old and a 40 year old talk and move. There are a lot of factors that can narrow down the identification process. The OP said hoodie for expedience, but obviously there were other identifying factors. The PD is not gonna round up people wearing 10 different colours of hoodies.



Are you kidding me?! They do it all the time in other parts of America. Not too long ago, my dad was visiting Jacksonville Florida and stayed at a national franchise motel. After midnight, a few masked men kicked the door in, armed with shotguns, robbed him and my step mom and took off. He called the police. The police rounded up suspects who matched the general description, he identified them, and they were charged. They do it all over the country. They just are not doing it here.

Me ridiculous? Let's look at what you are saying, the right criminals were in the line up for the crime where your dad was a victim. According to you the local PD just "rounded up suspects" for a line up. Somehow I don't think we are getting all the facts of what led police to the guilty criminals.

It really doesn't matter what you or I think about it but people have rights in the USA and if any PD thinks they can ignore or bend those rules they will pay a heavy price. It is NOT 1958 anymore. Have you ever heard of Jeffery Fieger? The only reason he is famous is because his firm made him very wealthy taking hundreds of millions [[have heard over a billion) of dollars over the years out of Detroit's coffers by litigating mistakes and failures of the DPD. It is no longer fiscally possible for the DPD to not be as professional of a police force as they can make themselves. Why do you think Kevyn Orr still has complete control of the DPD even though he has returned and or shared power of all other city services with Mayor Duggan? The city is bankrup. In order get new patrol vehicles the DPD had to rely on the generosity of others. The DPD worked 12hr shifts for years, had their personnel cut by almost a third in a decade. Quit blaming crime on the guys that are fighting it on the front lines with their lives.