Belle Isle Police Crackdown

[Fury13]

Charge $3.50 a car and block off all the party areas along the roadside so no fools can blast their kickers and suck down Colt 45 with a blunt.

Best idea yet. Get the young thugs out of the place.

[barebain]

Doug,

The trouble with your argument is that you assume Belle Isle is currently “attractive� to people who arrive either by foot or by bicycle. FYI – it’s not.

Currently, the only continuous, dedicated pedestrian/bike path around the island is the little 5 foot wide ‘lane’ running adjacent to the inside car lane. Furthermore, cyclists have to actually cross over 3-4 lanes of car traffic when entering and leaving the island to get into this lane. I have never once seen a car yield for a cyclist or pedestrian at those locations, despite the posted signs.

What makes matters worse is that this lane is the only dedicated path around the island for pedestrians and cyclists. We have to share this 5 foot strip, which means that any time a bike passes a jogger, the bike has to cross the little white line and merge into traffic. Moreover, there is usually at least one car parked in this bike lane sometime over the course of an average trip around the island, which forces bikes to again have to merge into motorized traffic.

Now, even at the posted speed limits, this is a slightly dangerous proposition as, in my experience, few of the cars driving around the island are tuned into the presence of bikes. Then you have to deal with the trick of merging into traffic coming up from behind. Add to this the fact that so much of the island’s motorized traffic does not obey the posted speed limits, and you’ve created a very unpleasurable ride/jog around the Belle Isle.

Despite what you’d like to think, I don’t have a “mad-on� for car traffic on the island. I myself enjoy a nice summer drive after a day’s work. But, as someone who also rides onto the island, I can attest to the fact that Belle Isle is overwhelmingly devoted to car access, and not entirely hospitable to other modes of transportation. Many of the problems the News article brings up, are directly attributable to this fact, and there needs to be a drastic re-imagining of the way people access the island.

1) There needs to be separate, dedicated lanes for both cyclists and pedestrians around the entire island.

2) Next, this lane needs to run around the outside of traffic, so that cyclists can actually see the river clearly. Why is the bike lane on the inside of the island, while cars are allowed to park along the outside lane? This relationship need to be flipped so that cars are parking on the inside, and bikes/pedestrians can be closer to the river. If car drivers want to see the river, they can park, and get their butts out of the car and cross the street.

3) Limit Belle Isle to two lanes of car traffic [[except in the Grand Prix areas, although that is another thread altogether). You want to know why cars drag race? Because they have been given a drag strip to drive on.

With these three elements, Belle Isle would become immediately more “attractive� to pedestrians and bicyclists alike, while still allowing plenty of car traffic to move safely around the island. If that’s not good enough, then perhaps you’re the one with the mad-on here.

[Jmil]

"Pipe dream. " Why? public service ads have been used in the past.
Only problem with them is they are FREE and those in charge don't like FREE. There is no PROFIT in FREE.

"no fools can blast their kickers and suck down Colt 45 with a blunt."
Why do you have a problem with this? Are these "fools" with blunts harrassing you? What about the other hundreds of non "fools" that are not blasting their kickers and sucking down Colt 45 with a blunt.

"Get the young thugs out of the place."

That is just dumb.

[choquant]

Doug said: Exactly correct. It is high time that bicyclists started carrying their own weight. They claim all the advantages of road usage and none of the disadvantages. If your bike takes up space in a parking garage, you should most certainly pay a fee for that space. I ride motorcycles, but I still pay road use taxes, registration fees, and parking fees. Why shouldn't bicyclists?

Now this is just laughable. Bikes do not get "all of the advantages" of road use... have you ever ridden a bicycle through Detroit? Roads are bumpy, other cars either do not know how to handle themselves around you or they try to harass or scare you, and nobody pays any attention. Also, most of us pay taxes and therefore do pay for our road use. Trust me, I drive a fair bit too, but being a bicyclist certainly does NOT afford the same advantages as a car.

And it's pretty hilarious that you are comparing your motorcycle to a bike. Your motorcycle is still a loud, polluting thing that could kill someone. Please.

[choquant]

Also, yeah, we want to incentivize bicyclists and walkers-- it's a park!

And for those concerned that a fee would deter poorer residents, what is to stop them from parking outside Belle Isle and walking in with their things? A little walk could do most of us some good.

[Detroitnerd]

Better still, run a pay tram to the island ...

[Bearinabox]

Why do people keep talking about taking a bus to Belle Isle? Anyone try to do that in the last couple years?

[Fury13]

Jmil, why not make the park family-friendly, even in the evening?

[wolverine]

I'm intrigued..why is it that such a large number of folks feel that drivers should pay a fee while pedestrians & bicyclists get a free pass?
Y'all got some sort of mad-on against those of us who don't live within easy biking distance? Or is it just some sorta innate anti-car sentiment?
Here's a plan..how'sabout bicyclists start paying yearly registration fees and road use taxes just like their big brothers with four wheels are forced to do, and all the cash gleaned from the two wheeled folks wallets can be put towards keeping our parks clean & safe..

Because most kids don't own cars or have little money they can access recreation at no cost. Plus cars are a more exhaustive use of park infrastructure. The registration point for bike paths/fixtures is valid though, but only for exclusive bicycle improvements, not road or sidewalk maintenance.

[Jmil]

fury13, why not make the CITY family-friendly, even in the evening?

I am not into thug love, however I don't believe $3.50 will solve the problem.
7 children were shot near a school not Belle Isle.
There were nearly 400 murders in the city last year. I don't remember any major crimes on Belle Isle in years.

[crawford]

I don't remember any major crimes on Belle Isle in years.

Is murder major enough for you? Some suburban lady was lured to Belle Isle by "friends" and then stomped to death last year.

[Jmil]

So your reasoning is that we need a fee on belle isle because some suburban lady was killed by "friends" ? http://www.candgnews.com/Homepage-Ar...SC-MURDER2.asp

First it was dicey, foolish messy thugs. Now its suburban killers.
Next it will be to save big foot.

[ZRX Doug]

Because most kids don't own cars or have little money they can access recreation at no cost.
True enough. But do "most kids" live within safe cycling distance of Belle Isle? Detroit's a big ol' city, and the island is located on the extreme east side of it. You know full well that "most kids" who enjoy the island [[whether on bicycles or not) will get there in a car.

Plus cars are a more exhaustive use of park infrastructure.
How? The park was designed with auto [[okay, carriage) traffic in mind, as the vast majority of park users cannot conveniently arrive via any other method.

The registration point for bike paths/fixtures is valid though, but only for exclusive bicycle improvements, not road or sidewalk maintenance.
Why? Auto drivers currently foot the bill for maintaining/creating "bike only" lanes on Michigan roadways..why should bicyclists share the roads but not the costs? Sidewalks are moot..the majority of us automotive heathens don't drive on 'em, either..

PS. The use of the term "drag racing" as applied in this thread is a misnomer.."Drag Racing" is something done on a race track..the illegal activity described here more properly called "street racing."
Sorta like baseball is played on a ballfield. When someone is beaten to death with a baseball bat, the killer is not accused of playing baseball.
Don't sully a legitimate motor sport by using its name to describe criminal activities conducted by idiots.
This is my favorite pet peeve..it pisses me off more than folks who describe the guy who didn't win as the "looser."
[[steps down off of soap box)

[ZRX Doug]

Doug said: Exactly correct. It is high time that bicyclists started carrying their own weight. They claim all the advantages of road usage and none of the disadvantages. If your bike takes up space in a parking garage, you should most certainly pay a fee for that space. I ride motorcycles, but I still pay road use taxes, registration fees, and parking fees. Why shouldn't bicyclists?

Now this is just laughable. Bikes do not get "all of the advantages" of road use... have you ever ridden a bicycle through Detroit? Roads are bumpy, other cars either do not know how to handle themselves around you or they try to harass or scare you, and nobody pays any attention.
I hate to burst your bubble, but the roads are still bumpy and other drivers are still assholes, even when you're NOT on a bicycle. Such is life, get over it.

Also, most of us pay taxes and therefore do pay for our road use.
Again, you're mistaken. Auto/motorcycle drivers pay above and beyond non-driver taxes thru registration fees, fuel taxes, etc, etc, etc..bicycles are allowed the use of roads built by these taxes, but are exempted from paying them.
Trust me, I drive a fair bit too, but being a bicyclist certainly does NOT afford the same advantages as a car.
I never claimed it did. You CHOOSE to give up those "advantages" by riding a vehicle which is on the losing end of the battle as determined by the laws of physics. So be it. I choose the same thing when I ride my motorcycle rather than driving the car..yet I still pay yearly registration fees and road use taxes for the motorcycle. Damn, I'm dumb..
And it's pretty hilarious that you are comparing your motorcycle to a bike. Your motorcycle is still a loud, polluting thing that could kill someone. Please.

Actually, I was comparing PARKING my motorcycle to parking a bicycle. When it's parked, my Kawasaki is neither "loud" nor "polluting," and it takes up about the same amount of space as a parked bicycle. The parking garage biz is based upon the rental fees for space used for parking..those fees are determined by floor space used, not the prejudices you have against internal combustion.
Why should your space [[however small) be free of charge?

[Retroit]

A fee for non-residents??? You really think the problems are being caused by non-residents?

As a compromise between the pro-fee and anti-fee factions, and since the problem seems to be confined to evening hours, how about charging a fee only after a certain time, say 6 or 7 p.m.?

[Russix]

4,000 citations since April. We're making good money here, don't screw it up with some lame $2 fee. We should add some new laws to protect the bike lane from motorists who think its okay to drive/park on it or from people who think its okay to setup their tailgate party on it.

Here's a plan..how'sabout bicyclists start paying yearly registration fees and road use taxes just like their big brothers with four wheels are forced to do...

SOLD! In exchange for an accelerated deployment of the City's Non-Motorized Plan

[ZRX Doug]

Always with the "new laws." How about we enforce the ones already in existance instead?
Here's the thing..I used to be a fairly hard-core street racer and "cruiser." I got over it somewhere in my mid-twenties when I discovered legitimate racing and the lower insurance rates that came with it..
At the time that I was leading "the life," there ain't NO WAY that a stupid entrance fee would've kept me out of my favorite playgrounds..in fact, it would have made my presence there more legitimate..likewise, exciting new laws did not concern me. I was ALREADY breaking the old laws by street racing and cruising where I wasn't welcome, WTF should I care any more about new laws than the old ones?
The bottom line is that the only thing that ever kicked us out of a given area was a strong police presence..the hardcore racers would stick it out, but the posers would look for new places to play ASAFP..with the posers gone, the real racers lost their meal tickets and moved along too.
Ya want the island cleaned out, then throw some surveillance cameras on the loop, and park a few cop cars on the bridge and let 'em snag the bad guys as they try to leave..it's not as if it would take a huge effort to police a place with one lousy entrance.

[Russix]

4,000 citations since April. We're making good money here, don't screw it up with some lame $2 fee. We should add some new laws to protect the bike lane from motorists who think its okay to drive/park on it or from people who think its okay to setup their tailgate party on it.

Here's a plan..how'sabout bicyclists start paying yearly registration fees and road use taxes just like their big brothers with four wheels are forced to do...

SOLD! In exchange for the accelerated deployment of the City's Non-Motorized Plan I would gladly pay.
http://208.112.94.121/resource/attach/40/map.pdf
http://208.112.94.121/resource/attach/40/masterplan.pdf

[Blarf]

If they crack down too hard, they will scare all the offenders away and they won't be able to make any more money. They need to chill out for a few weeks.

[Huggybear]

How about some traffic control at the foot of the bridge? The speed problem could be handled by introducing some [[visually) unobtrusive speed bumps that would rattle the hell out of cars driving more than 25.

I bike there too - is it shocking to anyone how many liquor bottles [[broken) are on the side of the bridge that is outbound to the island? If people have money to buy that stuff, they have money to pay to get on the island. And I'm sorry, but weed, picnics, and restored 70s cars also cost money, so I don't see some huge social injustice in charging to get onto the island. For what most people use the island, they're already spending a bunch of money. The possible downside to a fee, though, is that people might feel encouraged to trash the place like a movie theater.

I'm not a hardcore biker who believes in spandex, Cliff Bars, and drinking my own urine - but I agree with the comments that there are too many driving lanes, and the bike path is too "compromised." Put diagonal parking over the leftmost two lanes and move the bikes to the outside.

[jt1]

How about some traffic control at the foot of the bridge? The speed problem could be handled by introducing some [[visually) unobtrusive speed bumps that would rattle the hell out of cars driving more than 25
.

Unless you get the fools that try to get air off the speed bump.

[ZRX Doug]

The problem with moving parking to the inside lane is fairly obvious to anyone who isn't riding a bicycle..people who come to the island to fish/picnic/swim/etc would be forced to walk across traffic in order to get to the riverside.
Making families play "Frogger" with their children's lives isn't the solution.
Making families who have no choice but to commute by car pay for illegal cruiser's bad habits by instituting a blanket entrance fee for cars isn't the solution.
Legitimizing illegal behavior by charging a special entrance fee in the evening isn't the solution.

More posted signs defining exactly what is and is not legal, higher fines when the "is not" side of the signage is overstepped, and more cops to enforce the existing rules..
Raise the fine for driving in the bike lane on the island to $200 bucks, littering on the island to an equally ridiculous figure, post signage with the fines listed, and start writing tickets.

[Huggybear]

Well, potholes might be cheaper to install.

Unless you get the fools that try to get air off the speed bump.

[daddeeo]

If you want to charge non residents a fee maybe the non residents might want to pull their tax dollars that come to Detroit from Lansing.
The residents have trashed their own city for years. It's amazing how clean and stable things are once you cross Telegraph or Eight Mile.
You want to charge a fee, make it for everyone.

[barebain]

Doug makes a good point, and the answer is simple. Move the traffic even further inland, and place curbside parallel parking along the riverside portion of the road. You could still have angled inland parking for all the picnic areas on that side of the road, as well. Then, the only frogger that families will have to play will be with the pedestrian and bike paths. And, let me defend the position, because I know what's coming, that pedestrians crossing a bike lane are not being forced into a dangerous place. Crossing car traffic and crossing bike traffic are two very different things. Bikes and pedestrians, given enough elbow room, can safely co-exist. Think the Riverwalk.

Also, I agree that fines are important, but it would be easier to handle car/pedestrian/bike issues with proper design rather than more tickets. There can't be cops at every turn on the island, and would any of us enjoy it if there were?