Where were you during the 1967 Detroit Riot?

[Corn.Bot]

Maybe, in Detroit, no one can forget the riot because no one won.

Succintly put and possibly exactly right.

I wish we could know why, and how, Detroit is this way. We were not the first, only, or last city to deal with race riots, corruption, citizen flight, and poor leadership. Why do we seem to be the one city that cannot seem to slow, much less stop, the severe downward spiral that continues?

[Stosh]

Succintly put and possibly exactly right.

I wish we could know why, and how, Detroit is this way. We were not the first, only, or last city to deal with race riots, corruption, citizen flight, and poor leadership. Why do we seem to be the one city that cannot seem to slow, much less stop, the severe downward spiral that continues?

I think it has a lot to do with the quality of the people the city and surrounding areas attracted in the glory days of the auto industry as well as the wartime industrial buildup. People moved to the "arsenal of democracy" due to the large number of unskilled jobs. The tendency of these jobs being filled by, for the most part, uneducated workers could explain a lot.

The workers from the South brought their prejudices with them, both black and white. The lack of education could explain a little bit of the ignorance and racism inherent in both Black and White Detroiters. This, plus the distrust and racism of the vast amount of immigrant laborers that were still present up to the 1970's added a lot to the problem.

A lot of people felt betrayed by the city due to the increase in crime and the perception of the city turning a blind eye to the underlying issues behind it. The fleeing Detroiters, first White, and now Black and Brown, are all concerned about preserving their way of life, their families.

The sniping behind the comments and backbiting in the region is all about control, and power, naturally. There's no lack of ignorance in this region, still. Habits and values ingrained in generations continue to be perpetuated, whether you think so or not. I think that the only way to bust this cycle is to attract other people to the area. Maybe by an infusion of new blood these ingrained tendencies will be quelled once and for all.

[laurin]

I think it has a lot to do with the quality of the people the city and surrounding areas attracted in the glory days of the auto industry as well as the wartime industrial buildup. People moved to the "arsenal of democracy" due to the large number of unskilled jobs. The tendency of these jobs being filled by, for the most part, uneducated workers could explain a lot.

The workers from the South brought their prejudices with them, both black and white. The lack of education could explain a little bit of the ignorance and racism inherent in both Black and White Detroiters. This, plus the distrust and racism of the vast amount of immigrant laborers that were still present up to the 1970's added a lot to the problem.

A lot of people felt betrayed by the city due to the increase in crime and the perception of the city turning a blind eye to the underlying issues behind it. The fleeing Detroiters, first White, and now Black and Brown, are all concerned about preserving their way of life, their families.

The sniping behind the comments and backbiting in the region is all about control, and power, naturally. There's no lack of ignorance in this region, still. Habits and values ingrained in generations continue to be perpetuated, whether you think so or not. I think that the only way to bust this cycle is to attract other people to the area. Maybe by an infusion of new blood these ingrained tendencies will be quelled once and for all.

I think this is so important. We have a hard time attracting and keeping new blood to region and without it we seem to stay in the same cycle.

[Hermod]

I think it has a lot to do with the quality of the people the city and surrounding areas attracted in the glory days of the auto industry as well as the wartime industrial buildup. People moved to the "arsenal of democracy" due to the large number of unskilled jobs. The tendency of these jobs being filled by, for the most part, uneducated workers could explain a lot.

The workers from the South brought their prejudices with them, both black and white. The lack of education could explain a little bit of the ignorance and racism inherent in both Black and White Detroiters. This, plus the distrust and racism of the vast amount of immigrant laborers that were still present up to the 1970's added a lot to the problem.

The majority of whites in Detroit in 1950 were not uneducated migrants from the south. The majority of them were European immigrants and their descendants who had come to the US during the period 1880 to 1930 plus the postwar DPs from Europe. These people did not "bring their prejudices with them" when they came to Detroit.

[Stosh]

The majority of whites in Detroit in 1950 were not uneducated migrants from the south. The majority of them were European immigrants and their descendants who had come to the US during the period 1880 to 1930 plus the postwar DPs from Europe. These people did not "bring their prejudices with them" when they came to Detroit.

I never said that the southerners were a majority, did I? Please reread the above statement by me. And BTW, being an offspring of one of those immigrant families, allow me to say that you are completely and totally wrong. Prejudices are easy. Fear of the unfamiliar, the strange, the foreign, the "other" are easy. You just have to be opposed to someone that is NOT LIKE YOU.

Among the uneducated, these fears are easily played on by people looking to profit. Remember the real estate block busters that paid black people to walk up and down the streets in white neighborhoods, scaring the whites into selling at a loss? Sometimes that's all it took to set off the blockbusting. Think that's the sign of intelligence?

[kryptonite]

The majority of whites in Detroit in 1950 were not uneducated migrants from the south. The majority of them were European immigrants and their descendants who had come to the US during the period 1880 to 1930 plus the postwar DPs from Europe. These people did not "bring their prejudices with them" when they came to Detroit.

Thanks for that post. my entire family is from the deep South and most of them worked in the Detroit factories in the 50's and 60's. They were extremely poor and few had more than a few years of school. They worked with black people and never said anything negative. However, my relatives encountered a great deal of anti-southern sentiment. Racism was heavily entrenched in Detroit before the Appalachian migration after WWII. Plus, southern whites and Europeans encountered their share of discrimination.

And my white southern relatives stayed in Detroit until long after the riots before moving to the suburbs.

The original posting was very unfair to southern whites and quite biased, thanks for defending them against such a derogatory blanket statement. Nobody brought racism here to Detroit. Few people are migrating here any longer and there is still plenty of racism and bias against all groups.

[Stosh]

Thanks for that post. my entire family is from the deep South and most of them worked in the Detroit factories in the 50's and 60's. They were extremely poor and few had more than a few years of school. They worked with black people and never said anything negative. However, my relatives encountered a great deal of anti-southern sentiment. Racism was heavily entrenched in Detroit before the Appalachian migration after WWII. Plus, southern whites and Europeans encountered their share of discrimination.

And my white southern relatives stayed in Detroit until long after the riots before moving to the suburbs.

The original posting was very unfair to southern whites and quite biased, thanks for defending them against such a derogatory blanket statement. Nobody brought racism here to Detroit. Few people are migrating here any longer and there is still plenty of racism and bias against all groups.

There are always exceptions to everything. Your family is no different. They may not have voiced their predjudices, but they were there. Everyone has them.

Let me reiterate. EVERYONE.

Lots of people stayed after the riots. What makes your family so different?

Oh, not the southern whites, no.. handwringing at it's finest. I implicate everyone, and you seem to cherrypick what you want. Classic...

[Susan Messer]

Thanks, English. And, again, to you Kathleen, for mentioning the honors college thing.

The question of why Detroit didn't recover in the same way that other cities did is way beyond complex, with roots in history, sociology, economics, and so on. I have a friends who tells me that after the Detroit "riots," people in his neighborhood started having meetings [[mixed race) in each others' living rooms, to try to get to know each other, understand each other, talk through their concerns, build community. More of that might have proven fruitful. But economics--profit motive of real estate developers and so on, residents' instinct to protect their investments [[sell your house while it's still worth something)--are pretty powerful. Also, at one of my book events a woman said that it's one thing as an adult to decide to take a stand, stay put, work for change, and another to subject one's children to schools that one fears may be dangerous for them or substandard. Even rumors that a school may be dangerous or substandard can scare parents away.

[pffft]

Stosh,
Much of the blockbusting going on in the '60s was in comfortable middle and upper middle class neighborhoods in NW Detroit, where the residents were far from being uneducated...

Educated people are capable of being scared out of neighborhoods too, alas.

[Stosh]

Stosh,
Much of the blockbusting going on in the '60s was in comfortable middle and upper middle class neighborhoods in NW Detroit, where the residents were far from being uneducated...

Educated people are capable of being scared out of neighborhoods too, alas.

Comfortable middle class neighborhoods in NW Detroit are still there, for the most part, arent they? You don't have the devastation leveled in other, less affluent and educated neighborhoods, do you? They may have blockbusted, but targetted the same demographic in the replacement residents.

[Detroit Stylin]

The majority of whites in Detroit in 1950 were not uneducated migrants from the south. The majority of them were European immigrants and their descendants who had come to the US during the period 1880 to 1930 plus the postwar DPs from Europe. These people did not "bring their prejudices with them" when they came to Detroit.

Now thats a bunch of Bull. When the "Great Migration" of Southern Blacks from the rurals areas of the south came up to Detroit for the plentiful factory jobs, law enforcement agencies [[in particular DPD) INTENTIONALLY reached out to white southern lawmen becuase they knew how to deal "with them". Read it in the the Detroit 300th anniversary book for yourself. So yes there was very much a large prescence of Southern Whites PRIOR to the 50's and whole lot of their prejudices and hatred that came with them...

[Detroitnerd]

Now thats a bunch of Bull. When the "Great Migration" of Southern Blacks from the rurals areas of the south came up to Detroit for the plentiful factory jobs, law enforcement agencies [[in particular DPD) INTENTIONALLY reached out to white southern lawmen becuase they knew how to deal "with them". Read it in the the Detroit 300th anniversary book for yourself. So yes there was very much a large prescence of Southern Whites PRIOR to the 50's and whole lot of their prejudices and hatred that came with them...

Well, to be fair, what Hermod says is partly true. Yes, there was a HUGE immigration from the South to Detroit in the early 1940s. As some have observed, that was the last "boom" that finished off the old Detroit as it was known. And, yes, many Southerners came up here with either dreams of freedom or the same-old racism. All of that is true.

But they were in the minority.

[Hermod]

Now thats a bunch of Bull. When the "Great Migration" of Southern Blacks from the rurals areas of the south came up to Detroit for the plentiful factory jobs, law enforcement agencies [[in particular DPD) INTENTIONALLY reached out to white southern lawmen becuase they knew how to deal "with them". Read it in the the Detroit 300th anniversary book for yourself. So yes there was very much a large prescence of Southern Whites PRIOR to the 50's and whole lot of their prejudices and hatred that came with them...

When I was going to school in Detroit [[1945-1954), southern whites were extremely rare. My classmates all had names like Gruebner, Salzwadel, Fleisher, Wyck, Brissom, Kuhn, Bernhardt, Oleczak, Jung, Wetzelberg, Kramer, Bohr, Gustafson, Schick, Steffan, Hernalsteen, etc. I can remember one kid coming into the school who got called "Hillbilly" by the other kids.

[EastsideAl]

When I was going to school in Detroit [[1945-1954), southern whites were extremely rare.

It depended a lot on what neighborhood you were in though. My mother lived as a kid during WWII in the area around Trumbull and Forest [[just south of what would today be called Woodbridge) and that area was full of southern whites, both families and single men. with many more arriving every day due to all of war work.

Actually, a lot of people who had lived in that area for a long time were not happy with this influx and saw the newcomers as disorderly, loud, hard-drinking, and potentially violent. Especially the single men. There was a line of bars on Trumbull that my mother was told to stay away from because of this clientele.

But a lot of men from the south also hired on as cops. Many kids my mother went to school with had fathers who worked for the DPD, which needed a lot of new men during the war. They may not have hired on with the express purpose of mistreating blacks, of course, but many did bring with them certain attitudes from their places of origin.

It should be remembered that the main focus of the 1943 riot was Woodward Ave., which formed the border between a neighborhood with a lot of southern whites in it on the west [[what we would call the Cass Corridor today), and primarily southern black Paradise Valley to the east. As hard as it is to believe today looking at the relative emptiness of those places, that entire area had become extremely overcrowded at that time due to the labor needs of war production and the large influx of people it brought.

[Susan Messer]

Seriously, what do people think that we're going to do to them? Do folks think that their K-12 education or their university degree is devalued just by the very presence of black folks?

English, I just want to acknowledge this part of your earlier posting. Great questions. Hard to answer. I went to Halley, MacDowell, and Mumford in the 50s/60s, and these were integrated schools by all appearances. But as I've come to understand, it was an odd definition of integration, as within the school, stark divisions existed: reading groups separated people out early, as did later honors classes, and college prep in contrast with vocational. At Mumford, the college prep courses were in one wing of the building, while vocational/trade were in another. As a college prep student, I never set foot in that other wing. As I say, odd notion of integration.

I don't know how to answer your questions. I'm glad you raised them though. Part of it might be that whites don't like being in the minority. Racial fears/attitudes are also central. The town where I live now [[Oak Park, IL) is consistently trying to find an answer to the "achievement gap"--the difference in test scores between white and black students.