St. Jude Church/School Nostalgia

[Campfire Girl]

The playfield is part of the school, gym sale. Apparently it was decided by the diocese to be a package deal - and yes, you're right, we could use the money desperately!

[12468_laing]

The playfield is part of the school, gym sale. Apparently it was decided by the diocese to be a package deal - and yes, you're right, we could use the money desperately!

That's too bad. At this point, I don't see any buyer for the school and gym - unfortunately. With the land being a long block away, it would make sense to unload that. Any talk on anything on the school building?

[jcole]

That's too bad. At this point, I don't see any buyer for the school and gym - unfortunately. With the land being a long block away, it would make sense to unload that. Any talk on anything on the school building?

I don't think, in this economy, anyone will be buying the land OR the school any time soon, so I don't think it matters if it's a package or not.

[Campfire Girl]

My bad - the land IS separate from the gym/school. We've had MANY interested buyers in the past couple of years, but for some reason or another - we've yet to "seal the deal!" we've gotten our hopes up too many times on an "almost" definite!

[Tsomyak]

Yeah, I can't see there is a high demand for vacant property in the city at the moment. Putting that on the market now is kind of like giving a drowning man a glass of water. The church might do better to bide it's time a while longer.

[7andkelly]

Okay, since the school won't sell, let's put some lanes in there and get that family fun center with bowling project rolling.

[Campfire Girl]

It sure would be nice to be able use the school for some purpose - any purpose - but it all comes back to $$$$$$ - and instead of investing in the school, we need to pay the bills to keep the church lights on! :-) the renovation has left us with a massive debt that we still have to pay off - in addition to our monthly budget!

[Brock7]

Here's a little history on the playfields. Maps from 1905 and 1915 show the land that became Heilmann and St. Jude field as being owned by Wm Engel. By 1936 a map shows part of it belonging to W. Engel and the other part to the estate of Mrs. Bertha Engel. All of the land was platted as H. Welton Obenauer's Engel Gardens Subdivision in 1945, listing William A. Engel, a widower, as one of the proprietors. All of both Heilmann and St. Jude field was platted with streets and lots like the neighboring subs except that the lot on the corner of 7 and Brock was larger than any of the others. Since the 1928 directory also shows William A. Engel living at that corner, I'm guessing there could have been an elder William Engel that died between 1915 and 1928 who was married to Bertha. Alternately I guess a wife could have held title to land separately from her husband and that there was only ever one William Engel who lived there.

CFG, do you know whether the corner lot of St. Jude field that the house was on is owned by the Church currently, and/or whether it was when the house was still standing and occupied?

Someone said in the archived Heilmann thread that people referred to Heilmann as Ford's Garden in the 40's. I can't see any reason for that in the names of owners of the land on maps of the area going back to 1876. The only thing I can think of is that it might have been used as a lover's lane by couples in cars.

Attachment 6858

Attachment 6859

[kellyroad]

Here's a little history on the playfields. Maps from 1905 and 1915 show the land that became Heilmann and St. Jude field as being owned by Wm Engel. By 1936 a map shows part of it belonging to W. Engel and the other part to the estate of Mrs. Bertha Engel. All of the land was platted as H. Welton Obenauer's Engel Gardens Subdivision in 1945, listing William A. Engel, a widower, as one of the proprietors. All of both Heilmann and St. Jude field was platted with streets and lots like the neighboring subs except that the lot on the corner of 7 and Brock was larger than any of the others. Since the 1928 directory also shows William A. Engel living at that corner, I'm guessing there could have been an elder William Engel that died between 1915 and 1928 who was married to Bertha. Alternately I guess a wife could have held title to land separately from her husband and that there was only ever one William Engel who lived there.

CFG, do you know whether the corner lot of St. Jude field that the house was on is owned by the Church currently, and/or whether it was when the house was still standing and occupied?

Someone said in the archived Heilmann thread that people referred to Heilmann as Ford's Garden in the 40's. I can't see any reason for that in the names of owners of the land on maps of the area going back to 1876. The only thing I can think of is that it might have been used as a lover's lane by couples in cars.

Attachment 6858

Attachment 6859

Thanks a million for all the research! I do recall the report of the Heilmann property before the military base being called Ford's Garden. I'm wondering if it got its name from someone who leased that land or just cultivated it in the late 30s or 40s. According to the St. Jude website the SJ playfield was purchased in 1950. The military base existed in the early 50s and Heilmann Park was opened in 1951. I am not sure if the city of Detroit owned all the land from Maddelein to State Fair or gradually acquired all of the land once the military base left. Interesting

Do you have any info regarding the area between Rex and Redmond on Seven Mile, the current site of Saint Jude Parish?

[Campfire Girl]

I don't remember there ever being a house on the playfield - but remember that we used to own the duplexes across the street from the school where the Rapport club met - and if I'm not mistaken Fr. Ording's sister used to live there. Does anyone remember?

[jcole]

I don't remember there ever being a house on the playfield - but remember that we used to own the duplexes across the street from the school where the Rapport club met - and if I'm not mistaken Fr. Ording's sister used to live there. Does anyone remember?

There was a white farm house on the SW corner of the playfield, but according to Bing and Google Maps, it's gone.
Does SJS lease the field to DPS for a football field or something? This sign is posted on the playfield fence:
Attachment 6861
Or was that the name of the football team at SJS after it became East Detroit Catholic?

[12468_laing]

There was a white farm house on the SW corner of the playfield, but according to Bing and Google Maps, it's gone.
Does SJS lease the field to DPS for a football field or something? This sign is posted on the playfield fence:
Attachment 6861
Or was that the name of the football team at SJS after it became East Detroit Catholic?

yes, I remember the duplexes across from the school and Fr. Ording's sister lived there for a while. never knew her, but knew about her. wonder when she moved? seems earlier in this thread, the white house was discussed - one of the originals in the area?

[kellyroad]

I don't remember there ever being a house on the playfield - but remember that we used to own the duplexes across the street from the school where the Rapport club met - and if I'm not mistaken Fr. Ording's sister used to live there. Does anyone remember?

OK CFG now you're really taxing the memory banks but here it goes.....Fr. Ording's sister [[I think her name was her name was Jean...someone please verify) lived in the rectory and did a lot of the office and housekeeping. I do recall getting a tour of the Rapport club along with my dad and brother by none other than Fr. Ording himself. It was a late Sunday afternoon [[circa 1965) and my dad happened to take a few slides of the church grounds. Fr. O happened to be out and about and walked us over to the club, which I believe was the 2nd duplex off of Rex. Anyway, I don't recall there being a living quarters or bedroom there. There was a usable kitchen and the living room and bedrooms upstairs had card tables set up.

Question: There was a woman during the 50s-70s who was the secretary/office manager in the rectory. I don't think it was Fr. Ording's sister. My contact with her was when someone in the family received a medal or rosary it was my job to run over to the rectory and ask a priest to bless it. Anyone remember her name?

[kellyroad]

There was a white farm house on the SW corner of the playfield, but according to Bing and Google Maps, it's gone.
Does SJS lease the field to DPS for a football field or something? This sign is posted on the playfield fence:
Attachment 6861
Or was that the name of the football team at SJS after it became East Detroit Catholic?

The lone house on the SW corner was gone sometime in the 70s.
Do any of the 1970 graduates remember if that house was there in 70?

[Campfire Girl]

I don't remember there ever being a house on the playfield, so I'm out of that memory loop.
The only secretary I remember - which was before the days Lynn and the parish needing a business manager - was named Patricia. She was the secretary for years, but don't know how many years.

[Brock7]

Do you have any info regarding the area between Rex and Redmond on Seven Mile, the current site of Saint Jude Parish?

Maps from 1876 through 1915 show the 40 acres that are now bounded by State Fair, Seven Mile, Rex and Redmond as being owned by John Salter. They also show him owning the 40 acres between Hayes and Brock where Salter house on Seven Mile stood. For some reason the Detroit Common Council, rather than the land owners, ordered the land between Rex and Redmond to be platted in 1935 as the ASSESSOR'S PLAT OF JOHN SALTER ESTATE SUBDIVISION. The land between Hayes and Brock had been platted in 1925 as the EAST HAVEN SUBDIVISION and signed off on by Mary and Helena Young, and Casper and John L. Salter and their wives. It's interesting to note that all of the street names in the East Haven Sub, except for Maddelein and Seven Mile, are different than those shown in the plat for the John Salter Est. Sub which uses the current street names that we all grew up with. John L. Young is the name listed for the Salter house in 1928.

Attachment 6867
"The oldest residence still in existence dating from this period is the old Salter House, located today at 15303 Seven Mile Road, near Morang. John Salter and his wife, Sophie Geller Salter, built the house sometime before 1880. Andrew and John Young’s mother, Helen A. Salter, was born there, and generations of the Young family were subsequently raised in it."
Attachment 6868
"The Salter Home Built in about 1870. Picture was taken around 1880. On the front porch, from left to right are Casper, Joseph, Mrs. John Salter [[Sophie Geller) holding John, Helena [[mother of Andrew Young), Casper, Mary, and John Salter [[son of Casper). The house still stands at 15303 Seven Mile Road, Detroit, MI. Picture taken from the book, Assumption Grotto Parish 150 years of Faith, 1832-1982 by Catherine Bicknell, Ph.D., Our Lady Press, Detroit, MI page 66"
Quoted from: http://ajlambert.com/anderson/str...dr.pdf [[change the three successive dots in the link to a single underscore)

I looked through the photos I've saved from these St. Jude threads and couldn't find one that showed the Engel house on the southwest corner of St. Jude field. It was painted yellow with white trim as I remember it and maybe had a brick or stone, covered porch facing Seven Mile. Someone in the Eastwood Memories thread mentioned using their garage as a backstop when playing ball.

[jcole]

I think Fr. Ording's sister was Margaret and I think she was his housekeeper at the rectory
I'm pretty sure she lived in the east half of the corner duplex, and the west half housed the Rapport Club. I used to have to take covered dishes and cakes and whatnot over there for Senior Dinners from my mom.

[jcole]

I also remember the house at the corner of the playfield. I'm pretty certain it was there in the 1970. Weren't there swings and monkey bars at that end of the playfield on the Maddelein side, too?

[Brock7]

Yes there were swings, monkey bars and a slide[[I think) in line with Brock on that end between the baseball diamond and the Engel house.

[12468_laing]

I remember the swings, slide, etc on that corner. Remember the house, too and I remember a huge tree which was close to that side of the fence. Looking at google maps, that tree looks like it is long gone. I graduated in 71, and I am almost positive it was there then. I think it had to be late 70's when the house came down. As I remember, it always looked like it needed to be painted. About the name Maddelein, I saw a write up on the Kelly family Kelly Rd is named after. It mentioned a family by the name of Maddelein who was one of the early settlers, and I am sure most of that came from the history write up of AG church.

[kellyroad]

I also remember the house at the corner of the play field. I'm pretty certain it was there in the 1970. Weren't there swings and monkey bars at that end of the play field on the Maddelein side, too?

I recall my dad taking my sister and I to either St. Jude Playfiield or Heilmann to play on the equipment. We lived on Morang at that time between Eastwood and Saratoga...so it was just a short ride to 7 Mile and a quick left/right past "the house". St. Jude had a smaller [[and safer) slide, a chin-up bar [[not sure about the monkey bars) and a swing. Heilmann, at that time had the monkey bars painted red and yellow [[the fire department must have had extra paint) next to the parking lot, much taller swings [[with wood seats at that time), tri-level chin-up bars, a taller and steeper slide [[plenty of sand to be used as an accelerant) and a picnic table. All of that was located on the Brock side between Novara and Liberal. I'm not sure if there was even a fence at that time. This was before the ship with the bridge, ant hill, curved slide, and the dinosaur tire configuration were there. I believe the outdoor pool may have just been constructed. I don't recall an army base being there on the south end of the field.. of course I was only 4 or 5 years old was only focused on the playground equipment.
The house on the St. Jude Play field was kind of a pale yellow. I believe it was a craftsman/bungalow style....and yes there was a huge towering tree. The lot was fenced off at one time with wooden posts and I believe a cyclone type fencing. There was always a full vegetable garden around that house in the 60s. I'm thinking, there's got to be an old football program out there with that house in the background.

[kellyroad]

Maps from 1876 through 1915 show the 40 acres that are now bounded by State Fair, Seven Mile, Rex and Redmond as being owned by John Salter. They also show him owning the 40 acres between Hayes and Brock where Salter house on Seven Mile stood. For some reason the Detroit Common Council, rather than the land owners, ordered the land between Rex and Redmond to be platted in 1935 as the ASSESSOR'S PLAT OF JOHN SALTER ESTATE SUBDIVISION. The land between Hayes and Brock had been platted in 1925 as the EAST HAVEN SUBDIVISION and signed off on by Mary and Helena Young, and Casper and John L. Salter and their wives. It's interesting to note that all of the street names in the East Haven Sub, except for Maddelein and Seven Mile, are different than those shown in the plat for the John Salter Est. Sub which uses the current street names that we all grew up with. John L. Young is the name listed for the Salter house in 1928.
I looked through the photos I've saved from these St. Jude threads and couldn't find one that showed the Engel house on the southwest corner of St. Jude field. It was painted yellow with white trim as I remember it and maybe had a brick or stone, covered porch facing Seven Mile. Someone in the Eastwood Memories thread mentioned using their garage as a backstop when playing ball.

B7, thanks again. The Young name was mentioned....There was a Young family that lived on Eastwood in the 60s. What was unique about their home is that it was one of the few that had a pie shaped corner lot [[many of the homes had the extra pie shaped lots off an alley in the 7Mile-Kelly-Morang triangle.) The home was much older than the 1940-41 bungalow/colonials or early 40s duplexes that surronded it.
It was very similar to the 7/brock home...high, wide porch..with a craftman style shape. There was a large wooden shed in back instead of a garage. I know that "Young" is not an uncommon name but one can easily imagine back in the day around the turn of the century that those two home were probably the "next farm over". Families back then would often be in close proximity...Just a hunch
BTW, that home, I believe is the only home in the triangle that is gone [[since the late 70s, early 80s)...interesting

[Brock7]

Yes, when I said monkey bars I was thinking of the chin-up bars, not a rocket shaped cage.

[jcole]

Yes, when I said monkey bars I was thinking of the chin-up bars, not a rocket shaped cage.

That's what I meant too

[Brock7]

It looks like the play equipment might have been closer to the Maddelein corner than I remember it as well with diamond being in front of it to the east at one point.

The Engel house shows up in the DTE aerial shots as late as 1967. It can't be seen in the one from '49 because there are so many trees. This photo from '61 is clearer than the one from '67.
Attachment 6879

The next set of photos wasn't taken till '81 and the Engel house is gone by then, though the Salter house is still standing as can be seen in the cropped portion below. By '97 the Salter house is gone too.
Attachment 6880

On the 1893 map Charles Maddlein is shown as the owner of most of the land between Hayes and Gratiot, from Seven Mile to the alley on the north side of Lappin. The 1905 and 1915 maps show the owner as Peter Maddlein.
In 1917 it was platted as GRATIOT AMERICAN PARK by the land company of H. C. Walker and W. Hayes. It looks like they named Maddelein and Hayes streets which stuck, and named the street now known as Lappin, Walker.
Lappin was also the family name of some of the early settlers - I think the name may have carried over from a subdivision on the other side of Gratiot.