Detroit Council Aides get pay hikes.

[mam2009]

These comments should go the the Charter Revision Commission.

Over the years, I've watched these aides in action. They show up at community meetings. Glad hand, pass out business cards, then duck out before the meeting commenses unless they are a featured speaker. In which case they are alway first on the agenda [[citing other obligations). Bet they get comp time for those evening meetings. Yep, they work real hard

There is no such thing as comp time [[nor sick days, vacation days, funeral leave, family leave, etc) when you are a contractual worker. You can make no more than what your contract specifies for a pre-defined period of time. You should also consider that there's more than one meeting going on on any given night. The staff you see ducking out may very well be responsible for getting to another meeting that evening [[and they don't get cars or car stipends) or may need to go home or back to the office to read, research and prepare for the next day's council meeting.

[mam2009]

I am all for cutting their budget but would give that money to the Ombudsman's office. Maybe then citizen complaints would get addressed.

Couldn't agree more about increasing the Ombud's budget, but Charter Commission should look at strengthening the power of the Ombudsman's Office to really make an impact.

[mam2009]

You voted for them! Also explain why they have city-owned vehicles? You Detroiters are being taken for a ride and the only response it to ask for the to put the window down. lmao! Suckers are born every minute.

I used to work for the Red Cross and my job was to meet with community groups all over the City every day to get them to host blood drives and to monitor blood drives. Is it wrong that the Red Cross gives all of their donor recruiters cars to do a job where the job description is to go all over the city especially in a big city - not Troy or Eastpointe or Grosse Pointe or Birmingham for example?

[GOAT]

mam2009, Red Cross is a non-profit organization responsible to the board. Detroit is a city that is responsible to the taxpayer.
There are a helluva lot of cities with councillors that don't have city-owned cars. Plus isn't that why councillors also have a certain % of their income tax free to offset these costs?

Give me a break! With your comment above it is any wonder Detroit is in the shape it is in? I mean really??? Keep giving them the nod that it is o.k. to continue doing business the Detroit way...it has worked so well!

[mam2009]

mam2009, Red Cross is a non-profit organization responsible to the board. Detroit is a city that is responsible to the taxpayer.
There are a helluva lot of cities with councillors that don't have city-owned cars. Plus isn't that why councillors also have a certain % of their income tax free to offset these costs?

Give me a break! With your comment above it is any wonder Detroit is in the shape it is in? I mean really??? Keep giving them the nod that it is o.k. to continue doing business the Detroit way...it has worked so well!

And when those board members have to fly to another city on Red Cross business, who do you think pays for it and where do you think the money comes from -- donors. When you don't pay folks a decent wage or provide some perks, you get good people not wanting to run for office [[i.e. the current situation with the school board where NO ONE filed to run for the two open seats) or you get folks who change their first name to REVEREND to get elected or underqualified folks like the functionally illiterate Otis Mathis.

Get realistic. Everyone's gotta make a living. If you don't believe it, then you go to work for free while the rest of us work for a living. And, no, the IRS does not provide a tax break for a salaried worker's auto costs associated with their job.

[GOAT]

They do if it is a politician. I believe they pay no taxes on the first $20-30,000.

Are you actually stating there are no perks as a city councillor? They don't receive a decent wage? Archer was a very good mayor for Detroit but he was too much af an "uncle Tom" for many of the black people in the city and hhe wouldn't put up with it anymore.
Besides, if a person is running for a political position for the perks and salary then I wouldn't be voting for them. One should WANT to serve thepublic for a the betterment of their society NOT for the perks and cash [[that workd out well for Conyers and her cronies didn't it?) So perhaps you should get realistic about the people you are voting for.

As for people changing their name to REVEREND, well perhaps if Detroiters could read [[thanks DPS) they would be able to investigate these shills and NOT vote them in. REALISTICALLY, I believe no one filled the two vacant seats on the DPS because the whole system is shot. Who the heck wants that? Who can fix it other than the feds and tons of money? Anyone being realistic wouldn't touch the DPS for hundreds of thousands of dollars in salary. Now that is being realistic!

Keep voting them in mam2009. So far it has done wonders! And no amount of spin on your part changes the REALITY of the city of Detroit.

[mam2009]

They do if it is a politician. I believe they pay no taxes on the first $20-30,000.

Citation please. I don't know anything about politicians getting tax breaks that are any different from any other working person.

As for people changing their name to REVEREND, well perhaps if Detroiters could read [[thanks DPS) they would be able to investigate these shills and NOT vote them in. REALISTICALLY...

My child attends a DPS school and she reads just fine and so do her parents. Apparently your schools didn't teach you that making generalizations is an ineffective way to support an argument or point of view. And since you think I "spin", I will discontinue addressing your unsupported generalizations because you seem to want to only see things from your limited point of view. Providing facts or real world examples is not "spin". I was just trying to shed a little light on what I know happens in these situations. Too often when we are only presented one side of a situation, we draw hasty conclusions based on a distorted view of reality.

Keep voting them in mam2009. So far it has done wonders!

I am only one vote, I hope more people who care about the well-being of their city will start voting. I certainly didn't vote for Otis Mathis or Mr. Reverend David Murray.

[kenp]

I think this raise issue is a joke, and right in the middle of this budget fight.
However, on the Detroit council, I think it is important to have qualified aides for these people. Can you imagine Pugh actually making any logical decisions or coming up with some good ideas to improve the mess we are in on his own.

[mam2009]

Are you actually stating there are no perks as a city councillor? They don't receive a decent wage?

And, no I didn't say that nor do I believe it. They are compensated as fairly as I believe the budget allows.

[EastsideAl]

There is no such thing as comp time [[nor sick days, vacation days, funeral leave, family leave, etc) when you are a contractual worker. You can make no more than what your contract specifies for a pre-defined period of time. You should also consider that there's more than one meeting going on on any given night. The staff you see ducking out may very well be responsible for getting to another meeting that evening [[and they don't get cars or car stipends) or may need to go home or back to the office to read, research and prepare for the next day's council meeting.

Having done the job myself for several years, this is a very good description of what these staff people do and they way they are compensated. As a contract employee I had no benefits, no job security, no overtime, no compensation for my car usage, and had to pay taxes on 100% of my income. I was generally not paid for the hours I spent in preparation and often even for evenings attending meetings, etc. I'm not crying or moaning about it, since those were the terms I was given when I was hired and I enjoyed the job, but just trying to bring some experienced perspective to this 'debate.'

Having said all that, raising their pay at a time like this shows a very tin ear, and probably some other tinned senses as well.

[Lowell]

This country and the information age economy is slowly turning the workforce into unsecured contract workers. EastsideAl and Mam2009 have made very good points outlining why the precariousness of those positions might make an argument for a raise, if not now certainly some time. A lot of people who are fortunate to be ensconced is a secure work situation with a employer get rather smug when looking at someone out 'in the wild'.

To add to EastsideAl's points, those of us who have our own businesses, work as contract labor or are otherwise self-employed know that the first kick in the teeth is that we have to pay the full 15.3% FICA etc, from penny one, on everything we earn - no employer kicking in half. We have no unemployment compensation or worker's compensation for injury, unless you want to cough up a bunch for an AFLAC-type plan. Lose your gig, get hurt? Tough luck you're on your own. Then there is the burden of non-group health insurance, if you can get it, which is a de facto tax of $15-20K per year for a family of four that keeps increasing 10-15% a year. And finally, you have to pay your federal, state and local income and property taxes.

I'm not complaining. I love the freedom of not being a part of someone else's dream. I just pay and hope I can keep ahead. But I also know that, in 9 situations out of 10, you get what you pay for. You can pay someone peanuts, but they will bolt at the first opportunity and you are stuck spending time finding another and training them. The cost to your business in quality of product and real dollars are such that you pay, one way or another.

[mam2009]

...But I also know that, in 9 situations out of 10, you get what you pay for. You can pay someone peanuts, but they will bolt at the first opportunity and you are stuck spending time finding another and training them. The cost to your business in quality of product and real dollars are such that you pay, one way or another.

Ever so eloquently summed up.

[ct_alum]

Why do you think that the Council Persons have these large staffs? There are nothing more than places to park their cronies who helped them get elected and keep getting them re-elected. Same thing for many of the CoD Departments. Dare I suggest that if these "staffers" do so much work then the actual Council Person is not needed and a trained seal could sit at the table and read whatever the "staff" puts in front of them. Why doesn't the Council Person go to the community meetings? They have a City car, gas, insurance and DPD protection.

If they don't like the pay and hours, they should seek greener pastures which surely must be available if they are so qualified and able. Kind of reminds me of the K-Mart executives demanding [[and getting) retention bonuses in order to keep them in place to finish running the company right into the ground.

How much of these raises are getting kicked back to the Council Person?

[kenp]

How much of these raises are getting kicked back to the Council Person?

My first thought as well

[GOAT]

I'm not saying they should be paid peanuts but aide workers making 6 figures to help councillors? Councillors getting free cars in a city that is bleeding itself to death? Give me a break!
Lowell, if you or anyone [[yes you mam2009) else supports people that need to "get paid" to run for office then it is any wonder why our political system is so jacked up? Funny, I always thought you should vote for someone who is willing to make a difference and not look at the dollar figures.
Should they be paid fairly? yes. No one is denying that but these councillors and all of their friends and families sure make very good money and have many perks [[always interesting to see how many family members get hired once the politicking is done). In a city that has no money left how dare these people put themselves on a golden pedestal while everyone lives without! Especially when cutting essential services like fire and POLICE [[as if Detroit can afford to cut them).

Sorry Lowell but I thought you were certainly above that type of nonsense. The city isn't some company that has investors. It is a city that is slowly decaying and being robbed blind.

EastsideAL was right on the money. At a time like this? It is nothing but disgusting.

Mam2009, glad to hear your family can read and write. Sadly the majority of DPS students don't even graduate and couldn't if they wanted to. DPS is one of the worst run school boards in the USA. Those are facts you cannot deny.

As for taxation. Perhaps I am mistaken with the USA style system. But I understood that portions of their salaries are tax free for incidentals. But hey why not more pigs at the trough? It is the status quo.
Lowell, you and mam2009 are right. You get what you pay for and Detroiters have been robbed for years.

[mam2009]

One more thing I wanted to mention on this matter. In this year's budget the City Council cut $1 million dollars from their budget [[some of which is attributed to the 10% pay cut for their salaries and that of their staff). Then they SHIFTED an ADDITIONAL $1 million dollars from the City Council's support divisions [[Research and Analysis, Fiscal Analysis & City Planning Commission) to the individual Councilperson's offices so that their contract workers could have enough of a salary to buy their own health care benefits, etc. In other words, the raises didn't cost tax payers extra because it was money shifted from one line item of the City Council's budget to another line item in their budget.

As I said earlier, I'm just trying to provide the other side of the story that doesn't get told. We are all guilty of hearing one side of the story in the media, from a friend, whatever and then running with it like it is gospel truth without checking for ourselves what the other part of the story is. I'm just trying to provide the other side of the story. I, for one, am tired of folks beating up on my city, calling us illiterate, incompetent, stupid, etc without seeing the full scope. Yes, we have many problems, but I believe we NOW have a very intelligent, inquisitive, analytical and practical City Council that is trying to getting us on track fiscally. Rome wasn't built in a day and these folks just started in January. No, they didn't give up their cars, but they gave up 10% of their salaries. I think those two probably cancel each other out.

[kraig]

One more thing I wanted to mention on this matter. In this year's budget the City Council cut $1 million dollars from their budget [[some of which is attributed to the 10% pay cut for their salaries and that of their staff). Then they SHIFTED an ADDITIONAL $1 million dollars from the City Council's support divisions [[Research and Analysis, Fiscal Analysis & City Planning Commission) to the individual Councilperson's offices so that their contract workers could have enough of a salary to buy their own health care benefits, etc. In other words, the raises didn't cost tax payers extra because it was money shifted from one line item of the City Council's budget to another line item in their budget.

As I said earlier, I'm just trying to provide the other side of the story that doesn't get told. We are all guilty of hearing one side of the story in the media, from a friend, whatever and then running with it like it is gospel truth without checking for ourselves what the other part of the story is. I'm just trying to provide the other side of the story. I, for one, am tired of folks beating up on my city, calling us illiterate, incompetent, stupid, etc without seeing the full scope. Yes, we have many problems, but I believe we NOW have a very intelligent, inquisitive, analytical and practical City Council that is trying to getting us on track fiscally. Rome wasn't built in a day and these folks just started in January. No, they didn't give up their cars, but they gave up 10% of their salaries. I think those two probably cancel each other out.

It appears as though they robbed Peter to pay Paul. What happened as far as those support divisions? Did any of the divisions end up making cuts after the "shift"?

[maxx]

One more thing I wanted to mention on this matter. In this year's budget the City Council cut $1 million dollars from their budget [[some of which is attributed to the 10% pay cut for their salaries and that of their staff). Then they SHIFTED an ADDITIONAL $1 million dollars from the City Council's support divisions [[Research and Analysis, Fiscal Analysis & City Planning Commission) to the individual Councilperson's offices so that their contract workers could have enough of a salary to buy their own health care benefits, etc. In other words, the raises didn't cost tax payers extra because it was money shifted from one line item of the City Council's budget to another line item in their budget.

So there's less money for research and analysis and more money to aides who lend their presence to neighborhood meetings.

AS for eliminating at-large voting, it seems to me that voting by district will just create little fiefdoms which can be easily manipulated by one or two people. If you don't like what your councilperson did, it is much easier to wage a campaign against that person in a neighborhood rather than throughout the city. And it is also easier to buy your competition off with jobs. Given that Detroit is losing population, dividing it into wards makes less sense today than twenty years ago. Detroit's problem is that it has a smaller population pool to pick good candidates from.

[mam2009]

It appears as though they robbed Peter to pay Paul. What happened as far as those support divisions? Did any of the divisions end up making cuts after the "shift"?

Unfortunately, yes, there were layoffs in RAD. Other salaried workers in RAD transitioned to contract status instead and there were unfilled position eliminations in CPC.

[kraig]

Unfortunately, yes, there were layoffs in RAD. Other salaried workers in RAD transitioned to contract status instead and there were unfilled position eliminations in CPC.

So basically, at a time when all of the other 12,000 or so employees are taking pay cuts or preparing to take pay cuts, City Council aides, the majority of whom have only been working there for six months, are receiving pay increases. Quite a few of them in excess of 10%. I don't know. That certainly doesn't appear to be a new and more professional way of doing business. In fact, that looks like a page out of the Lonnie Bates handbook. Oh well, I'm sure all of the crap that's going on now will be forgiven and forgotten by the next election.

[Motor City Sam]

People who are defending or justifying these raises are simply overthinking this. It's simple: The City is in a financial crisis, and that fact has been repeated over and over by the Council and by the Mayor's office. In this environment, you don't give raises to your inner circle, especially when forcing other City employees to take pay cuts. You don't give raises to anyone. In fact, you ask concessions from everyone, including giving up things like City owned cars and car allowances for employees who don't use them in performance of their duties.

And while it's true that contract employees don't get health insurance provided by the City, that's also not relevant to this argument. That's never been a benefit for contract employees. They know that when taking the job and should not expect extra pay to provide for something that is not part of their contract. And how do you justify a raise of $8 per hour by claiming it's to cover the cost of heath insurance? You can't find a plan that costs less than 320 bucks a week?

These kind of positions have generally been used for political payback and the financial benefit of council members. Lonnie Bates paid his ex-girlfriend 20 hours per week as a contract employee so he wouldn't have to pay her child support for the son they had together. These employees do not have to go through the normal hiring process, they usually don't have to compete with other applicants for the position. Their qualifications are evaluated and their compensation are set abitrarily by the Council member. There are plenty of advantages to being a contract employee of the City council.

Yes, we're in a financial crisis. And the council and the Mayor's office should start acting like it.

[Buy American]

People who are defending or justifying these raises are simply overthinking this. It's simple: The City is in a financial crisis, and that fact has been repeated over and over by the Council and by the Mayor's office. In this environment, you don't give raises to your inner circle, especially when forcing other City employees to take pay cuts. You don't give raises to anyone. In fact, you ask concessions from everyone, including giving up things like City owned cars and car allowances for employees who don't use them in performance of their duties.

And while it's true that contract employees don't get health insurance provided by the City, that's also not relevant to this argument. That's never been a benefit for contract employees. They know that when taking the job and should not expect extra pay to provide for something that is not part of their contract. And how do you justify a raise of $8 per hour by claiming it's to cover the cost of heath insurance? You can't find a plan that costs less than 320 bucks a week?

These kind of positions have generally been used for political payback and the financial benefit of council members. Lonnie Bates paid his ex-girlfriend 20 hours per week as a contract employee so he wouldn't have to pay her child support for the son they had together. These employees do not have to go through the normal hiring process, they usually don't have to compete with other applicants for the position. Their qualifications are evaluated and their compensation are set abitrarily by the Council member. There are plenty of advantages to being a contract employee of the City council.

Yes, we're in a financial crisis. And the council and the Mayor's office should start acting like it.

Now that is eloquent! Well said Motor City Sam!

[DetLiving]

Gary Brown is a hypocrite. During the entire budget hearings he was asking departments to decrease their budgets. He led the way in decreasing the police and fire budget. He endorsed the closing of the Recreation Parks and Centers. Now he gives his staff huge pay checks. No council aide is worth $100,000 unless she is sleeping with her boss.

[Nee]

Gary Brown is a hypocrite. During the entire budget hearings he was asking departments to decrease their budgets. He led the way in decreasing the police and fire budget. He endorsed the closing of the Recreation Parks and Centers. Now he gives his staff huge pay checks. No council aide is worth $100,000 unless she is sleeping with her boss.

Gary Brown is a joke. I'm still trying to figure out what he did, [[other than sue the City), or skills that he has, that justified his election to City Council?

[Motor City Sam]

Now that is eloquent! Well said Motor City Sam!

Thank you.