Why I left

[EMG]

Charleston, S.C.?

Well, I'm not sure it would meet the sports requirement. And my only real familiarity with Charleston is a one-day drive through during a trip to Myrtle Beach. But it was the first thought that popped into my head in response to the "old and historic architecture" items.

Well if nothing else this might at least serve as a springboard for other better suggestions that might meet more of the requirements.

[Corn.Bot]

The only thing wrong with Kalamazoo is that it is located in Michigan. Otherwise, it is a location that could fulfill many of your wish items and is just a couple of hours' drive from Detroit. OK, so the city does not have the population density or many actual skyscrapers, but it has a few tall buildings and offers a relatively urban experience. The area respects its history and has wonderful old neighborhoods full of very cool, very campy old homes. Houses in the way of progress often get moved and repurposed instead of demolished. One thing I noticed about Kalamazoo City when we first moved out here a couple of decades ago was that its "worst" neighborhood looked to us like a decent area of Detroit.

The universities attract a multinational population that helps enrich the basic white-bread culture. The old GM plant on the edge of town has a new life as an industrial complex housing multiple and myriad businesses [[example, Kaiser Aluminum is hiring both white- and blue-collar workers for this location now).

So, a thought... and being exactly halfway between Chicago and Detroit and less of an hour's drive from Grand Rapids, one could have the best of all worlds.

[wolverine]

I love it here in Chicago. And yes Chicago can be cheap depending on what you are into. Buying a house or condo? Not so much. But renting an apartment or loft, you will find reasonable prices. I tend to return to Detroit frequently on business so I'm always going back and forth. Taking the train or megabus has been affordable and convenient.

Anyone making $40,000+ salary can afford to rent downtown easily. The adjusted cost of living is cheaper since I got rid of my car that I never needed. I walk everywhere and rarely even need to take public transit except when the weather gets bad.

I've considered moving up to the Northside neighborhoods, I like the architecture better but the convenience of living downtown is a good incentive.

As for sports, well I only go to games when they are playing the Tigers, Red Wings, or Pistons

If you do want to hold onto your car, it can be difficult here with all the parking regulations. It's a mess of written rules, unwritten rules, vehicle permit types, license to park a vehicle in the city, not to mention knowing where to find a space. If you rent a space in a garage, you legally bypass all those regulations since your car is now on private property. When I did own a car I usually kept it up at a park and ride at the end of the CTA red line. They had a 24 hour limit, but they never checked, for many many years. It costs $4 to exit the parking garage.

[Roq]

Take out the 5-6 hour requirement and you have NYC.

[Retroit]

Strange thread - no reason to leave, but already looking for a place to go. Kind of reminds me of tahleel - but at least he/she wanted warmer weather.

[iheartthed]

Take out the 5-6 hour requirement and you have NYC.

Well, the 2 hour plane ride re-qualifies NYC. Affordable housing probably disqualifies it again. But you can live in the outer boroughs for some reasonable prices, IMO.

I think Newark, NJ might be a good fit. You can live pretty good there for not a lot of money [[compared to NYC), and it's only 8 miles from Manhattan. It's got the urban grit, the professional sports teams, and the old architecture. Race relations are a bit to be desired, but still nothing like Detroit.

[English]

I wonder what the powers that be will do with the city and the state once we all leave.

[Retroit]

I wonder what the powers that be will do with the city and the state once we all leave.

Sell it to China for a dollar.

[English]

^ LOL! Actually, I think you're right!

I think they want us all to get fed up and leave. After all, if everyone in Michigan disappeared for the Wal-Mart A/C 8 months per year states, there'd be no one left to care about the carp invasion...

...or the siphoning off of fresh water to the highest bidder. By the second half of this century, Michigan will be just as much of a hot spot as an oil field in the Middle East.

[Retroit]

I am curious where you lived before Detroit and where you ended up after.

He lived across the street from Clark Elementary and moved to a Third World Country.

[MJCMEX]

bu-doom chick [[rim shot)

I was wondering where he was from BEFORE he lived in Detroit. As for living in a 3rd world country, from what you guys are saying he should have stayed right in front of Clark Elementary if he was interested in that.

[Red Devil]

Check out Montreal

[Red Devil]

Boston is ok too

[LeannaM]

You could look into St. Louis. Meets most of your criteria, I think. I don't live in St. Louis, though. I couldn't give you details. I'm not sure about the race relations part. I don't live there, so I don't see what goes on from day to day, and I would hate to speculate either way.

In case you want to browse, here's a real estate website:
http://cbgundaker.com/buying/

And a Cost of Living Calculator
http://www.bestplaces.net/COL/

Anyone hates to leave their home, but if you ever do decide to leave, St. Louis could be something you check out. It isn't Mayberry certainly, and crime problems exist, but you might end up liking it.

Best of luck wherever you decide.

[Zacha341]

Ok, that's a point, but there comes a time when cumulative incidences say it is time to leave. I have friends and fam who've endured crime, one having had a home invasion. They stay but will never feel really safe in their home. That impacts quality of life. I for one live in a "shared" building of several families [[someone's always home and added security features etc) therefore, for me it has been fairly safe...

Having said that, I would not at this point live alone as a female in Detroit. Absolutely NOT!

And I am not going to feel guilty [[or SHAME) about it. Not. I am black and was born here, support the city in my tax dollars and my service to the community in my vocation. I was educated here, raised a family etc. but until crime turns around I will not [[and would not) live in a single home alone in the city of Detroit - no way! If I were not living in a shared dwelling as I am I would LEAVE.

More and more single women or retirees and baby boomers have left for the reason of crime as a determining factor withstanding politics and our love for the city. It's a choice based on safety, not to say the 'burbs are crime free, nope. No naive thinking about that. However crime percentage is lower in other areas. You do your research and talk to others.

And crime percentages mean something relative to your "chances" of being singled out as a victim/ or you home violated or car stolen repeatedly.

I work in the city serving the community at a foundational level... and would continue that if I left for a nearby suburb. My tax dollars would continue to fund the city too.

WHY MOST OF YOU LEFT:
"Oh my god it's getting so bad around here, we need to get out and move to the burbs"
Insted of staying and sticking up for your city and fighting for what was yours.
If that is the case for you reader then SHAME ON YOU!

[Swimmaven]

So with all of these "Why did you leave?" and "Why did you stay?" type threads, and PQZ's post, I got thinking - Where would I go if I left?

I couldn't go move back to the suburbs again, that would be depressing for me. Plus, moving to the suburbs isn't really getting "away" from Detroit - the whole region is a mess of anger, fear, hatred, stupidity [[did I say that? more like confusion and limited thinking), and poverty.

Any suggestions? Keep in mind that I would have to probably go bankrupt and have my house foreclosed upon. I would go from having great credit my whole life [[something I worked hard for), to one of those guys who eludes bill collectors [[shame).

I could probably find a pretty well paying job so I could at least rent a house for like 7 years and then start over. That would be sweet...let's see ummm seven + thirty-....Oh wow, I'm going to feel pretty old by then. Oh well...you win some, you lose some.

My requirements -

1.) Urban city with old architecture - 20's era skyscraper's with their cornices intact preferably. [[nothing like Houston, L.A., Atlanta, Phoenix, etc.)
2.) Has to have old professional sports teams - no expansion teams, and at least 2 of the 4 major ones [[prefer American League but not a deal breaker).
3.) Historic neighborhood's that are somewhat affordable and not entirely snooty. [[I'm only half cheap)
4.) Access to ethnic food varieties and coney islands.
5.) Close enough to come back and visit Mom within 5-6 hour drive or 2 hour plan ride.
6.) Public transportation is optional.
7.) Weather I don't really care about.

8.) Oh and some place where race isn't the most influential subject discussed or considered or the underlying cancerous motive that eventually destroys seemingly everything.

So whadda-yah got?

Thanks in advance. I'll hang up and listen.

Kalamazoo, MI
Charleston
Savannah, Georgia
Ann Arbor
Traverse City
Madison, Wisconsin
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Helps if you know a few people where you are moving to.

[rid0617]

Wait a minute Bailey, who said anything about auto's? but while your on this subject I do agree with the statement "WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN." this is very true as it also pertains to every product you buy, everyone who ever cared about our economy should follow these words, our grandfather's didn't fight the Axis power's so that everything they fought and died for could be given away, especially to China a country with no human rights, no democracy and last time I checked still a Communist country that we now happen to owe 11 billion dollar's, doesn't anyone else see where this is heading? ok enuff of my rant.

Makes about as much sense as what my generation went through. Go to Vietnam, prevent communism because it was such a terrible thing. Leave in shame and now that same communist Vietnam is a trusted trading partner because we approached them to do business with us. Double standards.

[Hermod]

Makes about as much sense as what my generation went through. Go to Vietnam, prevent communism because it was such a terrible thing. Leave in shame and now that same communist Vietnam is a trusted trading partner because we approached them to do business with us. Double standards.

Or you could say we won in the end in Vietnam. We trained and left behind a dedicated cadre of free enterprizers/black marketeers/grifters. They put up such an economic guerrilla battle against collectivization that in the end the commies just threw up their hands in Vietnam and said, the state will own the big stuff, but anyone that wants to do business can do it. The change was almost overnight and now you have a country of highly productive retail and small manufacturing enterprises. All of the state "collective farms" have been parceled out to small farmers.

[markharrison]

I moved when my parents moved [[I didn't have any say in the matter as an adolescent). We lived on the lower East side [[corner of Avondale and Manistique) from '55 to '65. Then Grosse Point Park from '65 to '68. In '68 my Dad decided he'd had enough, and we moved to a small town [[pop. 1200) in central FL. The farthest North I've lived since them is my current location [[30mi. North of New Orleans). Have I ever wanted to move back? For about the 1st 6 mos.. Moving from Detroit to a southern town with a population of 1200 was total culture shock. After I got over that, I've never wanted to move back to what Detroit had become. I still root for the Tigers and the Wings [[my Mom's cousin is Bud Lynch), but I've been a Saints fan for the last 24yrs. I have very fond memories of living in Detroit, but from all of my visits back since leaving, I know that those memories are forever ancient history.

[PaulTHowell]

Grew up in Garden City, spent a year in Dearborn, then Florida, then '84-'88: Brightmoor, Warrendale, Brightmoor. Then Warren. In '88 I started a good-paying solid job, always wanted to own a home, and didn't want my kid growing up in Brightmoor [[gunshots nightly, police chasing perps down the street and onto our lawn, cars of teens shooting at each other, prostitutes working out of the house across the street, little kid trying to steal our jack-o-lantern, etc...). Warren was better, enough to feel relatively safe. Have worked in Detroit homes on and off for decades, and still do ocassionally. Graduated WSU, and plan to attend WSU law. So though I live in Howell now, I am in the city sometimes daily, and enjoy it most of the time.

[Stinger4me]

Left Detroit in '79. I have not been back since 2004. On the last visit I had a hard time believing what I was seeing. Safe ty is always an issue in Detroit. I don't believe the city will ever amount to anything. All of the vacant land and very little business and not many taxes coming in to the city coffers. Just take an objective look at what remains. The previous mayor should be wearing stripes and doing hard time. I can't think of any good reasons to return to Kwaymeville.

[laurin]

Leaving in a couple of months and cannot wait. I'm tired of the drug dealing at the corner with the customers commenting on how cute my daughter is , the abandoned houses, not feeling safe in my own home, break-ins, broken glass on my walkway, kids throwing their litter in the yard as they walk down the street, stray dogs threatening my family, and etc and etc. Plus, what I call the 'poverty tax'- driving at least 20 minutes for quality grocery and retail stores plus activites. The amount that I pay in gas just to find quality things to do with my family is riduclous. The only thing we do in Detroit is sleep otherwise we're rarely in the city.

My husband is from out of state, and I was actually raised in the suburbs, so neither one of us are native Detroiters. It was an interesting experience and now it's time to go. I won't miss it.

[Bella]

I left because I spent three months in a hotel after a home invasion. No arrest was made and I was even able to identify the guys.
I now have PTSD because of this horrific event. For a place I loved so hard for so long, I am finally coming to my damn senses.

[Zacha341]

Sorry to see you go, but I so understand. CRIME, C-R-I-M-E, and more "Crime" and the justification therein [[don't snitch mentality) is the biggest problem I have with trying to continue to stay. Sure crime and theft is everywhere the argument goes - got that! But it's very high in Detroit! Thus, I am very cautious - everywhere, including the burbs!! I WILL NOT "naively" put myself in harms way.

I was born in Detroit, from family coming from the south in the late 50's. However, were it not for living in a shared dwelling with very excellent community-minded neighbors, strong security, security dogs and someone always home, I would NOT live in the city at this point. Family members and friends have endured home invasions, while they slept [[thankfully no one was killed) etc. and that kind of stuff has an impact by proxy if not directly.

And you make a good point about not being able to shop adequately in the city. Quality food and variety is just not available.

I work part-time in the suburbs and a full-time community oriented job in Detroit and find it just more convenient and safer to shop and get my gas while I am already in suburbs on my way home. Thus, to save gas, I plan my commerce that way [[having to go out of the city regularly anyway). Though I still do some shopping in the city and make an effort to support some business, but some areas I will not get out of my car. Period.

Once you've experienced the quality of better, it is harder to live with/ accept the lack in the city. The contrast of services and quality of life simply cannot be ignored!! In any event more people are living in shared dwellings per the economy and there is better safety in numbers... so I'll stay so long as I am not in a single family home. I like the "amenity" of coming home from a 12-hour work day and finding my possessions were I left them.

Thus, I don't CARE how many five-star restaurants and stadiums et al there are DOWNTOWN, until the "bold-faced" in-your-face, brazen crime, scrapping and theft quotient throughout the city is addressed more working, tax paying citizens will leave the cities neighborhoods.

Leaving in a couple of months and cannot wait. I'm tired of the drug dealing at the corner with the customers commenting on how cute my daughter is , the abandoned houses, not feeling safe in my own home, break-ins, broken glass on my walkway, kids throwing their litter in the yard as they walk down the street, stray dogs threatening my family, and etc and etc. Plus, what I call the 'poverty tax'- driving at least 20 minutes for quality grocery and retail stores plus activites. The amount that I pay in gas just to find quality things to do with my family is riduclous. The only thing we do in Detroit is sleep otherwise we're rarely in the city.

My husband is from out of state, and I was actually raised in the suburbs, so neither one of us are native Detroiters. It was an interesting experience and now it's time to go. I won't miss it.

[terryh]

My parents moved us to the suburbs in 1957 because at the age of 10 years old I was stoned in my own back yard by a group of black youths for no apparent reason. I had never had any experiences with people of color up to that point. My parents thought the suburbs would be safer and of course they were.

where did you live? I was in a car that got stoned by black youths yellling racial slurs when I lived in Flint 79-82 not a good feeling....