Even by Detroit standards this house is too cheap

[Retroit]

I think Ocean2026 represents a lot of people who are interested in moving to Detroit based on its huge supply of old, yet attractive, homes. It's just that he is one of a few that has enough guts to put himself out there for ridicule. Let's realize that to non-Detroiters, what happens in Detroit is rather mystifying.

Personally, I think that Realtors should have some moral and professional obligation to give some explanation on why a house is selling for so little. I'm not suggesting they say "This house is trashed", but perhaps a subtle clue like "This house has had some water damage". I would be much more interested in a house if the Realtor was upfront than if I thought they were obviously trying to hide something.

Plus, it would save Ocean2026 from getting his hopes up and "annoying" us.

[Patrick]

$13K for taxes? Look at what you get for that $13K. Shitty schools and shitty services.

[Ocean2026]

LOL this thread turned into one about me- and everyone is entitled to their opinion pro or con.
Aside from MIKEM who lied and made up a story its all cool. I never read any story about Detroit having cheap real estate but when people like MikeM can hide behind an anonymous screen name they don't care what they say.

What happened is before the recession I took trips to Buffalo which I love [[ once started a long thread on here Buffalo & Detroit differences and similarities) which was [[ in my opinion of course) a great one. I then went to Pittsbugh which I liked but not as much. Cleveland and Detroit were next but I eliminated Cleveland and didn't have enough time or money to really spend time in Detroit [[ my school board election contributed to it).

If its wrong to like Detroit mainly for the architecture, then I'm guilty. I DO NOT look at it as an opportunity for investment as the demographics in Detroit [[ population loss) and crime, however I don't want to lose money and would like a summer place. If you want me to say I love Detroit because of its mild winters, low crime or because they have the Lions and Pistons [[ I did like the Pistons when they had Isiah Thomas because he went to Indiana Univ) Forget it! If you want me to say I like Detroit's recent mayors or government sorry, although I don't like most Texas politicians either and I won't jump up and down about the foolish tax structure .
That my posts are all about buying property is another lie. Much more of my posts are about admiring old buildings and urging Detroit to save them and adopt a tax structure based on last sale or real market rather than the current system which seems to appraise at "What might this building cost in Manhattan?" lol , however I've also posted about the Asian Carp -comparing neighborhoods and prosecuting crime.

Texas does not have any of the nice old buildings that can be found in Detroit, therefore I love to look at the photos many of you post and if one day I can buy one and do my part to preserve one and perhaps live there summers, perhaps I will. Its the same with neglected animals, there's not much I can do to solve the worldwide problem but each year I bring home a dog,rabbit or possum.

I have a background in demographics, government and community development and know my perspective is different and open-minded people shouldn't be threatened by my observations. Unfortunately most people outside of Michigan who I encounter are not open to my discussion and enchantment of Detroit's buildings all they hear is "Detroit". I hope my perspective encourages those who do NOT want to tear down those old apt complexes and other treasures that they appeal to more than just locals. There will always however be bitter angry people who resent any outsiders and who will lie and accuse to attempt to make themselves feel less miserable. It won't work. I will still enjoy and ask about the buidings.. and they will remain ..miserable!

[LodgeDodger]

LOL this thread turned into one about me- and everyone is entitled to their opinion pro or con.
Aside from MIKEM who lied and made up a story its all cool. I never read any story about Detroit having cheap real estate but when people like MikeM can hide behind an anonymous screen name they don't care what they say.

Actually, MikeM didn't lie. You've been looking at real estate in Detroit and posting questions on DYES! for some time. You took me to task for suggesting someone purchase a condo in Midtown over a home in Brush Park. We live here, you don't. [[Actually, I don't live in Detroit, but I do live in MI, BIG difference from Ocean. I believe MikeM is from this area, but I cannot say for sure. I DO know he's very knowledgeable.)

Lots of those posting in this thread chimed in when they shouldn't have. That happens a lot here. Ocean's become quite snarky with those who know quite a bit more than he when it comes to Detroit real estate. I'm not considered an expert, but I DID know the boundaries of IV. I also knew the house about which Ocean was asking.

IV is in Detroit. Many in IV [[who have children) can probably afford to send their children to The Waldorf or Friends schools. They are not in a different district, they are private schools.

Any home that sits for months with a blue tarp covering a portion of the roof is not in good condition. Add to that a huge scrapping problem and you get a portion of your answer. I've actually looked into the windows of that home. I've also talked to the people who purchased it, but never did anything with the home.

The house is located quite close to the Northern edge of IV--I believe it's on the block that ends at Goethe. Goethe is just one cross-street South of Mack. Properties located at that end of the Village can be a little questionable. You encounter a few more issues the closer you live to Mack.

Put all this together and you have your answer. It's not a bargain. Perhaps the right person with a dream and some money could restore the house, but any knowledgeable yahoo who comes to town hoping to make a killing in the real estate market would take a pass on this place.

MikeM's information is accurate. You owe him an apology, Ocean.

One more thing, is Ocean your first or your last name?

[tahleel]

I'd pick that house up myself if the taxes were 1/10th of what they are now. As stated earlier, you get nothing for it in return. I'd rather keep the $1000+ month in taxes, and de-annex myself from Detroit. Because I realized, as a Detroiter, you pretty much have to fend for yourself:

Cops? Don't bother them calling if anything happens, unless its a homicide. At that point, you have less than a 50% chance of them even discovering what happened unless the killer is still on-scene red handed. Even at that point, its still a toss-up.

Schools? As a DPS student for many years, I've seen a massive decline since the 90s. Kids without books or even toilet paper? That's absurd! What kind of education do you think your kid would be getting in a setting like this?

What else is left? Utilities? If one were to de-annex itself from Detroit, I'm sure you could still pay for water. Detroit Water & Sewerage is the only department inside the City of Detroit that actually produces a profit that's not earned through tax.

As far as gas and electricity, that is already privatized. Even other services like trash pick up can be privatized. I already pay $300 a year in my taxes for them to pick up my trash, and they can't even do that right! I'd rather pay that to a private company like Waste Management who will actually do the job for the money, and not "miss" my or my neighbors trash for weeks.

If several communities like Indian Village and Boston-Edison were to go out on their own and create a lower millage, and with these attractive real estate prices, I would definitely pick up one of these mansions! Until then, I would just look on and dream.

And as far as a Summer house, do you know how much it would cost to heat a 3000+ sq ft house over the winter? It will cost you thousands! Not only that, but I'm sure an unoccupied house will easily attract squatters or copper thieves.

-Tahleel

[Ocean2026]

Lodge you lack reading comprehension. Try to discern the difference between perhaps a 3rd reading ability and something more approaching ..say high school.

I have obviously make many posts ASKING about real estate.

Mikes claim was that " Ocean read one of those articles about the unbelievable real estate "bargains" due to the collapse of the local economy and housing market."

The truth is I just progressed West from Buffalo -to Pittsburgh - Cleveland [[ which I eliminated) and Detroit looking at the buildings. The more old buildings I saw the more i thought about it.

That I was attracted to Detroit because of some specific article is something this guy made up. IF he can say "here is a 2007 post by Ocean introducing myself by saying " hey i saw this article that you guys are falling apart and I want a bargain" but he won't be able to do so!

Therefore the only apology owed, is that by you to your parents and teachers for the poor job they did teaching you to how to read and comprehend.

[LodgeDodger]

You need to learn some manners.

[ct_alum]

Can't we all just get along? Why does almost every thread on the site degenerate into a battle of wits and mild insults? It is discouraging.

BTW, I am an EEV resident who bought a house on my street that was empty for 3 years [[freaking banks!), rehabbed it myself within 6 months and hope to close this month. It needed [[among other things) a new furnace , hot water heater, piping, roof and service panel. It went to a young family with 2 small kids who are thrilled to have a nice home in one of the better neighborhoods in the city. I had heard all kinds of horror stories about dealing with the COD building inspectors but they were nothing but helpfull, prompt and courteous.
So, there are bargains to be had in Detroit and you can turn a profit [[small) and do some good at the same time with a little luck, skill and determination. It's all good..................

[East Detroit]

Lady, you're new here so we'll give you a pass. Ocean read one of those articles about the unbelievable real estate "bargains" due to the collapse of the local economy and housing market. He then searches for distressed property, picks our brains about it, acts incredulous, and complains to us about how we run our business. Every thread starts just like this one, and he gets offended by the advice he gets, even if it's just a matter of pointing out the facts. MichMatters and BigB have him nailed.

My favorite post is when he chastised our restaurant industry for not getting "seafood" from the Detroit River.

Obviously someone with an anti-Detroit mindset who wouldn't mind using us to further his financial interests by having us do his research for him so he can flip some properties.

I've been to Texas many times. Michigan is way better.

[Patrick]

Wonder what the taxes for a similar home in GPP would go for. Anyone have a figure? I do know thatthere are homes off Lakeshore where the tax is well below that of many homes in IV.

[tahleel]

Wonder what the taxes for a similar home in GPP would go for. Anyone have a figure? I do know thatthere are homes off Lakeshore where the tax is well below that of many homes in IV.

Although this is the 2006 millage rates, you would get the gist of how Detroit's rate compares to other cities.
Detroit 86.9484
Grosse Pointe Park 55.6723

http://www.theresabarton.com/millage...ynecounty.html

You can also try this calculator to get an estimate:
https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/pte...testimator.asp

I quickly plugged in some numbers:
SEV: $200,000
Homestead amounts:
Grosse Pointe Park: $8,892 Mills: 44.46
Detroit: $13,158 Mills: 65.79

-Tahleel

[Retroit]

I suppose we will soon hear from the experts who will tell us how these taxes can "easily" be reduced by jumping-through-the-hoops at City Hall, as if that alone is not a deterrent enough.

[7051]

Facts from a 11 year resident....not a New Yorker...I mean Retroit:


Nez tax rate for 52 neighborhoods of 126 is 51 mills.

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Departme...1/Default.aspx

One will not have the same taxable value/SEV in Detroit and Grosse Pointe if you are comparing the same sq. footage house. Detroit's taxable values/SEVs are nowhere close to Grosse Pointe. My house in Detroit is 2700 sq. feet and the SEV is 88,000. A relative lives in a similiar house in GPP [[same length of time ) and although they pay 44 mills vs. my 51, their taxable value is 194,000 and their SEV is 251,000 [[which is the taxable value that the next buyer would get taxed on).

Again, always use exact comps, especially square footage and year of construction.

[tahleel]

Facts from a 11 year resident....not a New Yorker...I mean Retroit:


Nez tax rate for 52 neighborhoods of 126 is 51 mills.

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Departme...1/Default.aspx

One will not have the same taxable value/SEV in Detroit and Grosse Pointe if you are comparing the same sq. footage house. Detroit's taxable values/SEVs are nowhere close to Grosse Pointe. My house in Detroit is 2700 sq. feet and the SEV is 88,000. A relative lives in a similiar house in GPP [[same length of time ) and although they pay 44 mills vs. my 51, their taxable value is 194,000 and their SEV is 251,000 [[which is the taxable value that the next buyer would get taxed on).

Again, always use exact comps, especially square footage and year of construction.

Keep in mind, the millage rate with the NEZ tax abatement is STILL higher than GPP.

My house does not qualify for the NEZ tax abatement. I'm also scared for the neighborhoods that do have the NEZ. Do you think most home owners would be ready to pay the huge difference when taxes jump back up? I'm sure it would force a lot of home owners into foreclosure as they're not ready to pay the $1000+/month in taxes like the house above calls for when it does not have the tax relief.

-Tahleel

[Retroit]

Why doesn't the NEZ apply to the whole city?

[LodgeDodger]

Why doesn't the NEZ apply to the whole city?

IIRC, the neighborhoods who were picked for NEZ zones were the neighborhoods with the highest property values. Correct me if I'm wrong. Folks in these neighborhoods were being taxed amounts [[based on their properties) that were criminal.

I've always maintained that setting a much lower rate for all properties in the city would eventually bring in more tax dollars. That said, the way things are in Detroit, I doubt they're thinking much beyond how to fix the budget mess. Face it, smart planning and decent government didn't land the city where it is today.

I plan to live in IV one day, but betterhalf [[who is a much smarter person than I) refuses to pay such exhorbitant taxes. Add to that his disgust with Detroit's government and services, and you have a couple watching and waiting to see if the city can pick itself up.

I'm one of the folks who would like to go in and make a difference--betterhalf believes some improvement must be shown before we return. Until that time, I will continue to do what I can in my own way for the city and wait patiently.

[Retroit]

My sentiments exactly. And furthermore, I refuse to live in a city that requires one group [[the poor living in non-NEZ areas) to subsidize another [[the more wealthy living in NEZ areas).

[LodgeDodger]

My sentiments exactly. And furthermore, I refuse to live in a city that requires one group [[the poor living in non-NEZ areas) to subsidize another [[the more wealthy living in NEZ areas).

Actually, the poor aren't subsidizing the wealthier areas. Many are receiving applied-for tax breaks in other programs. If the city would just cut taxes, it would be much better. Of course, with Detroit's financial condition, they cannot afford to cut taxes for all.

I sometimes feel like I should keep my mouth shut about taxes and the like--as I'm not an expert [[to be sure).

[Retroit]

It doesn't take an expert to know that Detroit's taxes are too high. The only people that don't realize this are the politicians who want to keep the voters oppressed [[i.e. rich people don't generally vote for Democrats).

[Ocean2026]

The solution is siimple few will buy a house under $10k if the taxes are going to be near $10k. Michigan should use last sale or market value. It works in Texas , and people will be more likely to buy and fix up a distressed property than let it die owing back taxes.

[Scratch]

Perhaps this thread should be called "Appearances are Deceiving."

It's easy to get stars in your eyes, seeing real estate ads for picturesque places even I could conceivably afford. Having paid $750/month for a 300 sq ft efficiency, sitting on my computer and looking at pictures, with green leaves still on the trees outside my window right now, can be tempting. But I also watched a friend struggle with his "amazing fixer-upper" on a reclaimed block of River West in Milwaukee. Aside from crackheads still living next door, the beautiful copper fireplace he bought the house with got ripped out as the previous tenants left. Details like tarps, taxes, and proximity still didn't readily occur to me, until people said them here.

I've been shocked over and over at how wildly something's condition can differ between the inside and exterior. Sometimes, I think it would be nice if Detroit's buildings really were the lovely stage-sets they can so easily turn into, when you're not actually on the street and able to peek inside.

[ct_alum]

I knew of a house on 3 mile that sold for around 5 grand, some people from Europe, Belgium I think bought it and rented it out in a week to people down the street, I looked at it and it wasn't a hood i wanted to deal with. But they will make their money back in less than a year and the rest is gravy. If more investors put their money in the D who cares?
i see that as a good thing in the world we are living now.

In a word, bullshit. The CoD has a little thing called an ACR [[Affidavit of Compliance Responsibility). It means that the property must have all of the deficiencies indentified in the Pre-Sale Inspection Report repaired and re-inspected before the house is occupied and/or re-sold. The new owner must sign it and bring it to the closing. I doubt very much that all of this happened in a week, so the out-of town slumlord probably has people living there illegally. What's the address? I would be happy to drop a dime to the Building Dept.