Does anyone think it telling that the Southeastern High School mascot is called a Jungaleer? Do you know why? Because it was built out in the fricken country in 1915, it was sooo far out in the then Jungle that they called themselves Jungaleers.

You folks are laughable for even considering Detroit anything other than a confederation of suburban tract neighborhoods. You find the exact homes and neighborhoods on both sides of Mack after Alter. On both sides of 8 mile in Warren, all the same in Redford, Southfield, et al; however, GP is denser and more stabile as is any suburb you'd care to mention save RO TWP.

As soon as Hazen Pingree had Grand Blvd circle the city, the urge to move out and out forever changed Detroit from urban to suburban.

You can count on one hand the Detroit neighborhoods that could have been called "urban" back in the day: the southern sliver of Palmer Park, the riverside side of Jefferson across from Indian Village, maybe Park Ave and Cass two lifetimes ago, the slums of Hastings street and maybe West Grand near Grand River.

Now, today, the densest area in the City is Lafayette Park, which hold none of your precious markers for urbanness. No street-wall, no grid, no real retail, no mixed use.

Lafayette Park is dense, safe, steady and prosperous; but by your rigid definitions it is not urban because it is a pastural playground.

For Dan in Dc to suggest that the old retail tunnels out the artery spokes proves the claim that Detroit was once a great urban center, but at the same time he dismisses those same tunnels as they moved out, is just this side of pathological.